DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH BRUCE ISMAY, continued.
Q. So far as you are aware was it the track indicated for that season of the year in the agreed series of lane routes?
- Yes, so far as I know.
Q. You answered a question as to the arrival of the “Olympic” on one occasion in New York on a Tuesday. Was that at a season when the vessels were travelling on the long track or at a season when they were travelling on the short track?
- On the short track.
Q. Does the difference as between short track and the long track represent a difference of some hours in time of arrival at New York?
- It does.
Q. With regard to the voyage of the "Titanic" were you right in saying that she was timed to arrive on the Wednesday?
- Yes.
Q. And that it would not be convenient that she should arrive on the Tuesday?
- It. certainly would not.
Q. Did you ever express to anybody on board the "Titanic" during that trip either the wish or the intention that the "Titanic" should arrive in New York on the Tuesday?
- Never.
Q. In the evidence of a witness which has been taken on commission it has been suggested by the witness that you referred to making a record. Did you ever express any wish or intention that the "Titanic" should make a record?
- Never.
(Mr. Betts gives notice that on this subject the Witness is the Petitioner's own)
Q. Had the "Titanic" any possibilities of speed which would in your judgment have enabled her to make a record in the Atlantic passage?
- No.
Q. So far as you are aware what was her highest possible speed?
- We expected her to make about 22 1/2 knots.
Q. At her highest?
- Yes.
Q. What was the speed of the record passages; was it 26 knots?
- I think between 25 1/2 and 26 knots.
Mr. Betts:
Do you mean the record for all the steamers, Mr. Duke?
Mr. Duke:
I am speaking of the North Atlantic passage and the vessels which could be brought into consideration in deciding whether you had made a record?
- Yes.
Q. Now bring your mind to the Sunday. Had you any conversation at all with Captain Smith when he handed you the wireless message?
- None.
Q. Had you any conversation with him with regard to it when he asked to have it back?
- None.
Q. Did you discuss it with him at all?
- Never.
Q. As far as proximity to ice was concerned did it convey any knowledge to you as to the position?
- Not as to the position.
Q. I think you have said that you produced the message in the presence of two ladies?
- Yes.
Q. And talked to them about it?
- Yes.
Q. Mrs. Thayer and Mrs. Ryerson?
- Yes.
Q. Do you remember at all what you said to those ladies, either of them, with regard to the message?
- No, I have very little recollection of what I said.
Q. Were you sufficiently acquainted with the locality of the ice referred to in the message, relatively to the position of the "Titanic", to express any opinion as to how near it was?
- I was not.
Q. Had you any belief as to how near or how far it was?
- I had not.
Q. I think it would be convenient to put in the text of that message. I will read it from page 377 of Lord Mersey's report: "From s.s. 'Baltic', April 14th to Capt. Smith, 'Titanic'. Sent 11.52 a.m. Capt. Smith, 'Titanic'. Have had moderate variable winds and clear fine weather since leaving. Greek steamer 'Athenai' reports passing icebergs and large quantities of field ice to-day in latitude 41 degrees 51 minutes north, longitude 49 degrees 52 minutes west. Last night we spoke German oil tank steamer 'Deutschland', Stettin to Philadelphia, not under control short of coal, latitude 40 degrees 42 minutes north, longitude 55 degrees 11 minutes west. Wishes to be reported to New York and other steamers. Wish you and 'Titanic' all success. Commander". You were asked some questions as to dining with the captain. Had the captain a table which was called the captain's table?
- In the saloon, yes.
Q. Did you ever dine at it?
A. Never.
Q. On the occasion of which you are speaking, when Capt. Smith dined with you, did he dine with you in the restaurant?
-He did.
Q. So that neither you nor he would be seated on that occasion at the captain's table?
-No.
Q. And you say you never did sit at that table?
-Never.
Q. Where did you in fact sit?
-I was at a table by myself on the port side of the ship.
Q. Are you quite sure that on no occasion you sat at the captain's table?
-Quite.
Q. Either on his right hand or his left hand?
-I am quite certain of that.
Q. Did you know who did sit in those places?
(Question objected to as being incompetent and not cross-examination)
- I believe Mr. Thayer did, and Mrs. Thayer and Mr. Jack Thayer.
Q. Did you ever sit in the ship's lounge discussing the passage with Capt. Smith?
(Question objected to as being incompetent and not cross-examination)
- Never.
Q. Do you remember the Friday of the voyage?
-I have not got it clearly in my mind.
Q. There was a Friday?
-Yes.
Q. There was a Saturday?
-Yes.
Q. Would it be true to say that on the Friday you sat in the lounge early in the afternoon, at about lunch time, and discussed the ship's performances with Capt. Smith?
(Question objected to as being incompetent and not cross-examination. Mr. Betts further gives notice that on this subject and all subjects on which the Witness has not been examined he is the petitioners Witness)
- It would not be correct.
Q. Did you ever say to Captain Smith, either in the lounge or anywhere else, words to this effect: "We will beat the 'Olympic', and get in to New York on Tuesday"?
-Never.
Q. Either on that subject or on any other subject, did Captain Smith take any directions from you during that voyage?
-No.
Q. And did you offer him either directions or advice?
-Never.
Q. With regard to that message which was handed you, in your experience was it an unprecedented thing that the captain of a passenger ship should hand an interesting message to a conspicuous passenger?
-No.
Q. Have you known the same thing happen before?
-I have.
Q. With other people besides yourself?
-With other people besides myself.
Q. Did Captain Smith either hand you or show you any other messages with regard to ice which he received during that day?
-No.
Q. Or consult you in any way with regard to them?
-No.
Q. You have told us of your going to the bridge to speak to Captain Smith after the vessel had struck the ice. Had you the conversation of which you have given evidence?
-Yes.
Q. Did you see or hear anything more of Captain Smith at that time?
-No, not then.
Q. What more did you see or hear of him that night?
-Only when he gave the order either to lower the boats or to get the boats ready.
Q. You heard him give an order with regard to the boats?
-I did.
Q. Did you take part in the actual work of helping to get the boats out?
-I assisted as far as I could.
Q. From the time when Captain Smith gave that order, did you see him any more?
-Never.
Q. Or have any communication with him, either directly or indirectly?
-No.
Q. Was the boat in which you left the ship, the last boat to leave on the starboard side?
-Yes.
Q. How long was that after the collision?
-I could not say.
Q. A long time?
-I really could not say; I do not remember now.
Q. You said, I think, that those who were on board that boat rowed towards a ship's light, or what was believed to be a ship's light?
-They did.
Q. Did you yourself take part in rowing?
-I did.
Q. Do you know at all for how long those on board the boat rowed?
-I could not say.
Q. At about what time in the night did a breeze spring up?
-I really do not know. I cannot remember.
Q. You are not able to tell me whether it was nearer daybreak or nearer the time when you were first on board the boat?
-I should think it would be about daybreak.
Q. You spoke of having, at daybreak and after daybreak, seen some icebergs?
-Yes.
Q. Were they to windward or to leeward?
-I should think they were both, as far as I can remember.
Q. Did you discuss at all in what direction they were setting?
-No, I did not.
Q. Had you been many hours in the boat when you first saw them?
-Some hours, I think.
Q. I think you said it was after daybreak?
-We saw them at daybreak.
Q. And in all you were about four hours on board the boat, were you not?
-I should think something about that.
Q. Do you know at all for what period of time you were rowing?
-No, I do not know.
Q. With regard to the state of the night, as to which you were asked, was it a perfectly clear night to the time when you turned in for the night?
-As far as I could judge.
Q. Starlit?
-Yes.
Q. When you came up from below after the collision, was it still a perfectly clear night?
-As far as I could judge.
Q. You answered some questions with regard to boat equipment and expressed an opinion which you said was formed "from our experience." You said: "Since the disaster from our experience I have given it as my conclusion that there should be enough boats for those on board a ship.” What was the experience to which you were referring?
-What happened in the case of the “Titanic?”
Q. Did you know before the loss of the "Titanic" that the question of boat equipment was one which had been much considered by the Board of Trade and by persons responsible for the navigation of ships?
-Yes.
Q. And that there were conflicting views as to the most suitable complement of boats?
-Yes. I think an advisory Committee was then sitting.
Q. An advisory Committee of the Board of Trade?
-Yes.
Q. When you say you formed an opinion do you put that forward as the opinion of a man, competent by his practical experience to decide conflicting questions between experts as to the equipment in boats?
(Question objected to as calling for a conclusion of the Witness and as being incompetent)
- It is only my experience.
Q. You have given this evidence at the instance of the Respondents upon this Petition. Do you put it forward as the evidence of a man who has sufficient knowledge to give an opinion which ought to be accepted in the matter or do you put it forward as the evidence of a man who has thought of the subject after a disaster and has formed an opinion for himself?
-That is all; simply an opinion of myself.
Q. Do you know, at any rate, one school of naval experts has held the view that providing great numbers of boats on board a vessel makes her what is called tender in navigation?
-They have done co.
Q. And affects her stability as a sea-going ship?
-That is easily overcome.
Q. How would you overcome that?
-By putting weight in the bottom of the ship.
Q. Is that again an opinion which you offer as an expert either in ship-building or in navigation or as what we may call the man in the street upon these matters?
-I know what has been done constantly, and when you get what you call a tender ship you have to put weight in the bottom of that ship to counteract the tenderness. It is common knowledge of ship owners.
Q. For the practical decision of the question somebody must be called in who knows to what extent tenderness is caused by a particular mode of loading up the boat deck and to what extent it is to be counteracted by the process of ballasting?
-Quite.
Q. And to what extent again that loading up of the boat deck can be counteracted by ballasting in what is after all a commercial ship, are those questions which experts must ultimately decide?
-Quite.
Q. What I mean is this. I want to ascertain whether you set up on these topics as a man having the mental equipment which enables you to decide them and to advise others upon then or do you merely say: "I have thought about it, and that is what I think about it."?
-That is all; it is only my opinion.
Re-examined by Mr. BETTS.
Q. Do you remember the names of any of the experts who have advocated a smaller number of boats on ships?
- I do not.
Q. Your company had no difficulty, had they, in making the “Olympic” seaworthy, with sufficient boats for all on board?
- I could not answer that question.
Q. Was not that done while you were an officer of the company? Was not her boatage increased?
- I really do not know what took place after the accident happened to the "Titanic", with regard to the boatage, or anything.
Q. You have no doubt that she is seaworthy today, have you?
- I have no doubt about that.
Q. And you have no doubt that she has boats for all today?
- That I do not know.
Q. Did you not, immediately after the accident, yourself give orders that none of your ships should leave port without sufficient boats for all?
- At the request of Mr. Franklin.