Senator SMITH.
Was Mr. Bottomley to have any part in it?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Absolutely none.
Senator SMITH.
And you have had no part in it?
Mr. SAMMIS.
No.
Senator SMITH.
Mr. Cottam says he has not yet received his money.
Mr. SAMMIS.
Perhaps that is Mr. Cottam's fault. Perhaps he has not been accessible.
Senator SMITH.
Is the money being held for him by anybody, to your knowledge?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I presume, if anybody were holding it, it would be the Times.
Senator SMITH.
Nobody else?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I understood Mr. Cottam had received his money.
Senator SMITH.
He had not when he was on the stand a day or two ago.
Mr. SAMMIS.
I understand that he has since.
Senator SMITH.
Were these payments made through yourself or any other officer of the Marconi Co?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have already stated that I did not see the money, did not expect to, and did not wish to.
Senator SMITH.
Do you mean that you did not see a check or an envelope containing the money?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have not taken part in the transaction one iota, one way or the other.
Senator SMITH.
Let us clear this up as we go along. I think it is a most distasteful matter to you, as it is to the committee, and I think to the public.
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have not done anything I am ashamed of, and if I can clear my record, that the newspapers have impugned, I want to do it, and I am sure you want to help me.
Senator SMITH.
Have you done anything in this matter, about which we have just been speaking, that you are very proud of?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have not done anything I am ashamed of.
Senator SMITH.
I did not ask you that. I want to know whether you are proud of it?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Yes; I am proud of the fact that, being an employer of labor, and being the superior of poorly paid men, or mediumly paid men - men who do not see very much of this world's goods - I will do them a good turn honestly if I can, and that I consider I have done. I know of no law that can forbid a man selling his personal experience, after he comes ashore, and we have no rule by which we could prevent them from doing it.
Senator SMITH.
Then am I to understand from what you say that, so far as your opinion goes, this practice to which I am calling attention will be continued?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should consider it very dangerous indeed - and I had intended to bring it to your attention - to forbid them, by some hard and fast rule, which you have indicated, along that line, because the result would be that you would obtain the very results you now have. It would seem only reasonable that if no recognition whatsoever, in standing or financially, should be made of the efforts of these men to get the news off the ships, they would not stir themselves very much to do it. I believe it could be regulated. I believe an error was made. I believe it would have been better to have sent this news to the Associated Press and let them settle with the boys, if they liked. The news then would have had more general distribution, and there would not have been any sore toes.
Senator SMITH.
I have not seen any sore toes, and I do not know of anybody who is complaining of any, myself. But do you not think it would have been better to communicate this intelligence to your office, in answer to the numerous inquiries made by Mr. Marconi, from the time of the accident until the arrival of the Carpathia, and then disseminate it to the public, that they might be relieved of the anxiety under which they were suffering?
Mr. SAMMIS.
With all due deference to the question, my judgment would not be that that was the best course to pursue, for this reason, that the international telegraph convention has already placed itself on record as putting news dispatches last in the list; ship service telegrams first, paid passenger telegrams second, and then press messages.
Senator SMITH.
How general is this custom of receiving and accepting money for exclusive stories of sea disaster?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should say it was quite general. I perused the copies of messages from the shore stations. I saw messages from practically every paper in New York City asking practically everybody, from the captain down to the survivors, for exclusive stories. Whether they got them or not I am unable to say, except that I did see in the New York World, on the day after the Carpathia arrived, that they had published an exclusive story two hours and a half before the New York Times had theirs on the street.
Senator SMITH.
The committee are not very much concerned with that.
Mr. SAMMIS.
It demonstrated that there were not exclusive stories.
Senator SMITH.
If this custom about which we are talking, and which was followed by Binns, the operator in the Republic disaster -
Mr. SAMMIS.
But Binns sent his wireless messages from the ship.
Senator SMITH.
All right; I do not care where they came from. (continuing.) If this custom, which was followed by Binns, and which you may is quite general among wireless operators -
Mr. SAMMIS. (interrupting)
No; pardon me, I did not say quite general among wireless operators; I said it was quite general on the part of papers to endeavor to secure exclusive stories.
Senator SMITH.
Is it a recognized standard of ethics among operators?
Mr. SAMMIS.
No; absolutely not.
Senator SMITH.
Injunctions of secrecy, such as these messages indicate, and the hope of private reward, such as you say is often the case -
Mr. SAMMIS.
I do not remember of having made such a statement -
Senator SMITH.
Well, such as you do not regard -
Mr. SAMMIS.
As dishonorable?
Senator SMITH.
As dishonorable. I will ask the stenographer to read the beginning of my question.
(The stenographer read as follows:)
"Injunctions of secrecy, such an these messages indicate, and the hope of private reward, such an you say is often the case -"
Senator SMITH. (continuing)
Might cut some figure in the ability of the public and even owners of the ship, and the people vitally affected, to obtain the news, might they not, if the custom be recognized among operators?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should say absolutely they would have nothing to do with it. At such times, and at all times our operator on the ship has his messages censored by the captain. It is a part of our contract that the captain shall censor messages. The operators are there on board in the same manner that any other officer is on board, and they hold the position of junior officer. The captain would have nothing, whatever to do, and would have had nothing to do in this case, except file the message, tell the man to send it, and it would have gone to whomever it was addressed, and at any time, had it been filed. The matter has been thrown over onto Mr. Bride and Mr. Cottam, who did the best they knew how. They followed their rules blindly and were worked up. The responsibility, I must say, if there is responsibility existing, was on the part of the captain, if he realized that the people were waiting for news; and, if so, did not realize it, why should our men have realized it? He should have filed a brief account, and the captain had such a message requesting such an account from the White Star Line.
Senator SMITH.
You heard Mr. Marconi say a few minutes ago that he did not regard it as a desirable practice and that he thought it ought not to obtain.
Mr. SAMMIS.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And you disagree with him?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Not altogether. I would say that you would have to be very careful what rules you might make or you would defeat the purpose of the rule. I think that is self-evident.
Senator SMITH.
Do you fix the wages of these operators?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Of which operators?
Senator SMITH.
The wireless operators of your company.
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have only jurisdiction over operators on American ships, of which there are four.
Senator SMITH.
Do you fix their wages?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have something to do with it. I make recommendations.
Senator SMITH.
What are the ships to which you refer?
Mr. SAMMIS.
The St. Paul, the St. Louis, the Philadelphia, and the New York.
Senator SMITH.
How many operators are there on each ship ?
Mr. SAMMIS.
One.
Senator SMITH.
How much do they receive in wages?
Mr. SAMMIS.
$45 a month.
Senator SMITH.
And board in addition?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Yes. It is an American scale of pay on an American ship not an English scale of pay on an English ship.
Senator SMITH.
There is a difference?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Money goes twice as far on the other side as it does here.
Senator SMITH.
How much did Cottam receive?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
Or Bride?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
What is the English scale of wages for wireless operators?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I do not know. I should say it is considerably less than our scale of wages here.
Senator SMITH.
Suppose it were £4 a month
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should say that is equal to $45 here.
Senator SMITH.
I did not ask you that. I asked you if it was, £4 -
Mr. SAMMIS.
You said, "Suppose it was £4"
Senator SMITH.
I said this: "Suppose the wages were £4 a month; that would be $20. Would you regard that as good wage?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should regard it as equivalent to the American scale.
Senator SMITH.
Then you would regard it as a fair wage?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Not so good a wage as I should like to see them get.
Senator SMITH.
You have fixed the wages here, and you say that is equivalent to the wage here.
Mr. SAMMIS.
No; with all respect, we do not fix the wages here.
Senator SMITH.
What part do you have in it?
Mr. SAMMIS.
We are governed by the considerations that control any other commercial company; we have to show a balance between that which we receive and that which we spend.
Senator SMITH.
You are trying to make a profit, in other words?
Mr. SAMMIS.
We are trying to make both ends meet. If that were not the case we might pay more money.
Senator SMITH.
You said with some pride that you paid the American operators on the St. Paul and these other ships $45 a month. Now you say that $45 a month to the St. Paul operator would be about the equivalent of $20 a month to the operator on the Carpathia?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I am not aware that I exhibited any pride as to the $45 a month wage.
Senator SMITH.
You have exhibited by your testimony considerable solicitude concerning the rewards of labor.
Mr. SAMMIS.
Yes; I still believe in people getting paid as much as their employers can afford to pay them.
Senator SMITH.
Do you think you are paying the wireless operators on the Philadelphia and St. Paul enough?
Mr. SAMMIS.
We have no difficulty in getting good men at that price.
Senator SMITH.
You do not contemplate any raise in wages?
Mr. SAMMIS.
If the steamship people will pay more for the service; yes, by all means.
Senator SMITH.
I did not ask you that. I asked you if you contemplate any increased scale of wages.
Mr. SAMMIS.
That is the only thing that could govern my contemplation of increased wages - increased returns.
Senator SMITH.
I want your viewpoint. You say that $20 a month paid Bride and Cottam, on the English scale of wages, is the equivalent of $45 a month on the St. Paul?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should say it would be the equivalent of $40 in America. I have never been in England.
Senator SMITH.
I do not ask you that. That is simply a voluntary statement that takes up unnecessary space on the record.
Mr. SAMMIS.
I am sorry -
Senator SMITH.
Just answer this, please: It is the equivalent of $40 a month in America, is it?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I have been led to believe that from hearsay, from people who have been on the other side and who have lived in England; I have not lived there.
Senator SMITH.
Then, do you regard that as a fair wage?
Mr. SAMMIS.
What do you mean by fair?
Senator SMITH.
Just.
Mr. SAMMIS.
That does not help me much.
Senator SMITH.
Appropriate.
Mr. SAMMIS.
It is all we can afford to pay.
Senator SMITH.
Exactly. Then you are paying all that you can afford?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Exactly; and showing a loss on the ships I have mentioned.
Senator SMITH.
But you have no difficulty in getting operators?
Mr. SAMMIS.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether the British ships have any difficulty in getting operators?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I do not think they have. I never heard that they have any.
Senator SMITH.
I am coming back to the point where you say it is absolutely essential that these operators be given the right to sell exclusive stories of happenings at sea, in order that their wage may be brought to a desirable point -
Mr. SAMMIS.
I made no such statement.
Senator SMITH.
Well, you approximated it.
Mr. SAMMIS.
I think not. I said you would have to be very careful of the rules you might make against this. I am in agreement with Mr. Marconi that it is undesirable that the thing should work out as it has done, but you have to be very careful what rules you may lay down, or the men would not send any news at all.
Senator SMITH.
They would mutiny?
Mr. SAMMIS.
In a polite way, I do not think they would mutiny; no.
Senator SMITH.
Have you had any difficulty on that point?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Never.
Senator SMITH.
Why should you expect it?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I should expect a man to do that for which he would be commended, that for which he would receive recognition. I should say that if you forbade him receiving such compensation or return, he would not be apt to spur himself to write up a story of his own experiences for the sake of the public.
Senator SMITH.
Then you think the public might lose the benefit of his experience if he were not permitted to sell it exclusively?
Mr. SAMMIS.
I take it that your idea is that they should be send off news messages from the ship.
Senator SMITH.
No, sir; I am not talking about any voluntary action on the part of the wireless operator.
Mr. SAMMIS.
Then I misunderstood you.
Senator SMITH.
I am talking about replies to messages sent by Mr. Marconi, sent by Mr. Franklin, sent by people representing those who had been lost in this wreck; and I am asking you whether or not this custom or habit or practice, of which you do not seem to wholly disapprove, of selling the experiences of operators at sea in disasters of that kind, had anything to do with the failure to get that information here promptly?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Absolutely nothing whatever. I should say that the boys obeyed their rules, the rules of conscience and the rules of the international telegraph convention, which they were forced to do. They followed them blindly. I believe I should have done the same in their place.
Senator SMITH.
I will let this personal eulogy stand for itself and ask you how you happened to go to the Strand Hotel with the Times representative that night?
Mr. SAMMIS.
Simply to get him in touch with the men when they came off the ship.