Senator SMITH.
Exactly, Do you think that it is prudent or desirable to have wireless operators, upon whom rests so much responsibility in a crisis, unofficial in their relationship with your companies?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
They are not unofficial, Senator, in a certain way; that is as regards any messages that have to be sent or received in connection with the navigation of the steamer, they are absolutely under the direction of the captain.
Senator SMITH.
But you heard the testimony yesterday as to enjoining silence, and you heard the custom revealed permitting the wireless operators, Binns, Cottam, and Bride to receive pecuniary reward for information in their possession and I would like to know if you approve that course?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I think that is rather an unfortunate course, and I think that it might possibly be an incentive for young men to try to withhold information until they arrive with the steamer. Therefore it is an unfortunate course; but it is only human nature.
Senator SMITH.
What kind of human nature is that?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
That these boys, when they get ashore, will, if they sit down and give a reporter a story, expect some compensation for it. If that could be eliminated, it would be a very desirable thing to do.
Senator SMITH.
Suppose your company when it installs wireless apparatus on your ship does so with the distinct understanding that you are to supply operators, making proper tests as to their efficiency and proper inquiries as to their character and obtaining proper knowledge as to their fitness for the employment - do you not think that quite desirable?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
That is a matter we would have to give careful consideration to before expressing a definite opinion about, whether that would be more desirable than the present plan, because these are commercial problems; the wireless equipment are in communication with the shore and they are for the use of the public; they are not for our use exclusively. If they were for our use exclusively, a part of the ship's equipment for the ship's messages only, and for communication in ease of danger, anything of that sort, then we could employ the people and regulate them absolutely.
Senator SMITH.
Do you not think it is of doubtful wisdom to have; any man aboard one of your ships, which navigate the waters of the world; practically with large responsibility, who is not under your immediate control and direction?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
He is under the direction and control of the captain, so far as the ship's business is concerned; but he is not, so far as messages that he might receive or send are concerned because be could send them or receive them without anybody else knowing anything about them. But even if we had a man appointed there, one of our own men, he might do the same thing.
Senator SMITH.
He might, but if he did you could remove him?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Yes, so could Marconi.
Senator SMITH.
But you could not?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I think if our commander suspected anything of that kind, and had fairly good reason for doing so, and made proper representations to the Marconi Co., he would be discharged.
Senator SMITH.
Exactly; but your commander is gone, in this instance.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
But you are talking about a general proposition.
Senator SMITH.
I want to ask you, now, one further question on that line, whether you think it is wise to have an employee on one of your ships, in an important position, subject to the direction and control of strangers to your management and business?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
If you had asked me that question before this disaster it would have made no impression on me; but after having heard of this telegram that went out to this operator, it does then seem as if the operator should have instructions of exactly the same nature as the captain of the steamer has. In other words, when the captain leaves the port, leaves his dock, he is the master in charge and everything is up to him. If this Marconi operator, whether he is under the control of the Marconi man, or under our control, had similar instructions under the captain, it might improve matters; it might avoid a similar occurrence, if there was anything there. I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
Do you in any manner, or does the captain of the ship under your direction, fix rules and regulations for the conduct of wireless operators aboard your ships? I will be a little more definite; I mean as to the hours he shall be on duty, as for the number of times he shall visit the apparatus, as to his right to leave the operating room, and as to the person to whom he must report before absenting himself from his post?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I do not think those are fixed by the management of the ship, but the management of the ship understands about what he has to do.
Senator SMITH.
In this instance you recall that the operator, Cottam, on the Carpathia, said that he had no fixed hours, that he reported to no one, and was practically in the unrestricted management of that wireless station on the Carpathia.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
He might have been, true, in a certain sense; but if the captain of the steamer found the boy was not doing his duty - the operator - he would very promptly take him to task.
Senator SMITH.
I understand that; but this wireless operator, Cottam; told the committee in your hearing that he received a message which he did not even report to the captain of the Carpathia, because he did not deem it important; the wireless operator on the Titanic refused, with the telephone on his ears, to accept the warning of the steamship Californian for minutes after communication was attempted, because he was making up his accounts. The only reason for receiving the C. Q. D. call of distress from the Titanic when she struck that iceberg was because this wireless operator happened to have on his head the telephone which would register the call while he was undressing to get in bed; and in five minutes he would have had that off his head and been in bed, in which event the Carpathia would have been in utter ignorance of this call of the Titanic until the operator resumed his position in the operating room. Now, I ask you whether you consider it important that operators should be employed directly by the owners of these ships, and regulations in great detail made for their conduct, in order to insure the safety of your passengers and the safety of your ships?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
In reply to that, I think that you will find that these operators have certain regulations.
Senator SMITH.
I understand what they are. You heard him say what they were, that they were the regulations of the Berlin convention with which he was familiar?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Now do you understand that they have any regulations outside of those?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
My understanding was the operators were supposed to stand by their instruments for certain times, when there was only one operator; but this young man the other day testified that he was largely guided by the amount of business -
Senator SMITH.
And by his own judgment.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Yes; and the amount of business. Now, there is no doubt that the complete investigation of this whole thing will evolve some scheme, whether it is best for the operator to be under the jurisdiction of the Marconi Co. as to his hours, or whether he should be absolutely under the jurisdiction of the steamer; that is as to his hours, because that is a different thing, the matter of hours, from the matter of conforming with the ship's rules. That will no doubt be a matter of careful consideration; and the best course to be pursued will, after consideration, no doubt be brought out. The steamship companies want to get as much protection from the Marconi instruments for their travelers and patrons as they can possibly get. We can see what is the best method of handling that matter only after everything is investigated.
Senator SMITH.
From the testimony of Cottam, the Carpathia operator, we learned that he had no hours that were particular prescribed.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Correct.
Senator SMITH.
Do you not think it would he quite desirable to have a regulation that the operator should be in his operating room from 6 o'clock at night until daylight the next morning, or 6 o'clock the next morning, during the hours when people are asleep, when vision is obscured, and when most of these calamities on the sea occur, rather than be on duty during the daytime, when all eyes of the ship's officers and passengers and crew are helpful and difficulties are easily avoided?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Yes. Of course the question - I do not know whether I can make clear to you, but this is the point, that the Marconi instrument did not avoid difficulties; it only assists -
Senator SMITH.
I understand that. I do not want you to infer that I think it is perfect.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I think I can answer your question in this way. It is a question of long distance. It is not a question of daytime or darkness. Now, no doubt, this investigation will bring forth facts. The present law of the United States is that a steamer carrying passengers, when the number of passengers plus the number of the crew exceeds 50, must have a Marconi instrument and operator. You may find upon going into this matter further that it would be well for the United States to pass some law or legislation or regulation to the effect that all steamers carrying passengers must have an operator at the switchboard all the time. I do not think it is a question of night or day.
Senator SMITH.
That is what I am aiming at -
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I do not think it is, night or day.
Senator SMITH.
You say that the Marconi apparatus is not perfect.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
No; I did not say that.
Senator SMITH.
What did you say?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I said the Marconi apparatus is not an aid to navigation in the way of. picking up or locating anything, and therefore it is not a question of day or night.
Senator SMITH.
But it managed to record a call which was responded to promptly; and as a result of that wireless message which was accidentally received the lives of about 700 people were saved.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Further than that it has saved a great many lives during the time it has been on shipboard, and it is a very valuable assistance in the case of any disaster.
Senator SMITH.
Now I am coming right to a point which I had in mind when I started. Suppose the surviving operator of the Titanic had been under the control of your company, and instead of failing to reply to the call of the Californian for 30 minutes, because he wanted to make out his accounts, he had been required to immediately respond to a call from whatsoever source, and by responding immediately that night the information received from the Californian might have avoided this accident entirely, do you not think that that shows the wisdom of your company controlling these men and having a little more inducement held out for competent and discreet men in these important positions?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Of course the question of the Californian would not have made any difference, because my recollection is that he testified that the Californian was simply wanting to pass an ice message to him about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, and he was passing it to the Baltic later, and he picked it up -
Senator SMITH.
That was about 6 hours and 40 minutes before the accident occurred?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
But they got that same information half an hour later, and whether they got it half an hour earlier or later in this particular case made no difference.
Senator SMITH.
No; but minutes count in such a situation.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
But your point in regard to declining to receive or not receiving, or in regard to indifference in receiving, information of that kind is of course well taken.
Senator SMITH.
Minutes count. You heard the testimony of the lookout?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
In this particular case, the minutes did not amount to anything.
Senator SMITH.
And you heard the testimony of the witness, Fleet, the other lookout, that with glasses he could have avoided the iceberg and saved the ship?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I did not know that.
Senator SMITH.
You heard the testimony of the wheelman, Hichens, that if he had gotten the signal to alter his course a very few seconds earlier he might have avoided that iceberg .
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Of course that applies to every accident - those remarks - because he got it just the moment that the lookout got it.
Senator SMITH.
Yes; but neither one of them got it in time.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
No; but they got it as quickly as the human eye could get it, apparently.
Senator SMITH.
But here was a half hour that the Californian was endeavoring to give the Titanic warning that she was among the icebergs.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
But that was five hours and a half or three quarters before the accident.
Senator SMITH.
That is just thirty minutes earlier than any other notice came to the ship, is it not?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I do not understand what time, if any time, this Amerika notice was received by the ship.
Senator SMITH.
I have been unable to get that, and I have been unable to get from the officers of the Titanic, the exact time when the message from the Californian was received or whether there was any message from the Californian received at all. Nobody seems to know about it, at all.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
The operator said he picked up the message from the Californian on the way from the Californian to the Baltic.
Senator SMITH.
He picked it up through the Baltic, just as Cottam, of the Carpathia, took a message from the Titanic to the Frankfurt, saying, "You are a fool; keep out," when the Frankfurt was asking, "What is the matter?" I think the direct call ought to be responded to the moment it is made; and it ought to have been.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I think they ought to respond to every call of that kind they get; they ought to at once.
Senator SMITH.
And he did not do it in this instance?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I can only refer you to his testimony; I do not know.
Senator SMITH.
You heard it?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I heard it; it is a matter of record.
Senator SMITH.
Now, you say you think that as the result of this inquiry some improvement may be made by congressional legislation which will have a tendency to remove some of causes which contributed to this accident.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
That, I take it, is the very important object of this investigation.
Senator SMITH.
And that, I say to you, is the direct object of the investigation.
Now, you have been present all the time, and I saw you first of the officials of the White Star Co. on the dock in New York when the Carpathia arrived, and I want to ask you whether you have been treated with consideration and courtesy throughout the inquiry?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Well, I certainly have.
Senator SMITH.
So far as you know, have the officials of your company been similarly treated?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I think they have had every courtesy and consideration. The only question is that we could like it very much if, when one of our witnesses has testified, he would be allowed to proceed home. That is a matter of expediency, of which you are the best judge.
Senator SMITH.
And which I have refused to allow; I refused that permission.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
You have refused permission, so far as I know.
Senator SMITH.
I want you to know that that has not been done in any captious way, or for the purpose of criticizing anybody, or for the purpose of inconveniencing anybody, but because each day's proceedings bring out a little more strongly than the preceding day's circumstances surrounding this affair; and the body which we represent would not be satisfied, and the people they represent will not be satisfied, if we do not make the inquiry thorough and painstaking. As I understand you, you have no criticism to make of the course that has been pursued?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
We quite appreciate that, Senator, and we are very anxious to cooperate with you in every way. We had hoped that you would be able to proceed with the witnesses from abroad, who are anxious to get home earlier, and we have been disappointed that that has not been done. But we very thoroughly realize that you have a very important problem on your hands, and you are the best judge of how that should be proceeded with.
Senator SMITH.
You will admit, Mr. Franklin, that thus far you are the only witness outside of the Britishers who have been witnesses who has been placed on the stand? I refer to and include Maj. Peuchen, of Toronto, Canada, whom I also regard as a Britisher. We have placed no one else on the stand, have we, except these officers and men?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
Well, Mr. Marconi.
Senator SMITH.
Mr. Marconi is a foreigner.
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I have tried to make myself clear, that we realize the importance of this investigation; we realize the many matters that are being put before you on all sides; your anxiety to deal fairly with us and everybody else, and we are not wishing you to think for one moment that we are in any way, and I do not want you to think from what I say to you that we are, in any way, complaining. Do I make myself clear to you?
Senator SMITH.
You do, and I am greatly obliged to you. Do you think we are holding our sessions sufficiently prolonged each day?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
From my point of view, you could sit day and night; but I think from the point of view of you gentlemen and the others you are doing so.
Senator SMITH.
At the present I am going to excuse you, and ask the Sergeant at Arms if Mr. Luis Klein is here?
Mr. CORNELIUS.
No sir, he is not.
Senator SMITH.
Is the captain of the Californian here, or the captain of the Mount Temple?
Mr. CORNELIUS.
I have seen neither one, yet.
Senator FLETCHER.
I would like to ask one or two questions.
Do you know whether the Titanic or your company give anything in the way of extra pay, any inducements, to the officers or members of the crew of your ship for extra diligence in case of emergency, accident, distress, or anything of that sort?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
That matter would be dealt with by the management of the ship, located abroad, after the arrival of the steamer. But what the company does, as a matter of fact, is this: Every officer on a steamer which has been run free from all accidents for 12 months gets a bonus - the captain and other officers. The slightest accident eliminates that bonus. Therefore it is to every officer's advantage to have his ship run absolutely free from accident.
Senator FLETCHER.
What do you believe, from your experience in this business, as to whether it would be practicable to run ships in pairs across the ocean?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
No; I do not think that would be at all practicable.
Senator FLETCHER.
For what reason?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
The ships are all of different speeds, and I think it would be an element of risk rather than otherwise, probably. It is better to have the ships separated. From a commercial and business point of view it would be a very difficult matter to work it out in the way you suggest.
Senator FLETCHER.
You do not believe then, it would be practical?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I do not believe it would be, and I do not think it would be an element of safety.
Senator FLETCHER.
Or even add to the safety of the passengers, to have ships go in hailing distance of each other?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
I do not think so. I do not think it is a practical matter.
Senator FLETCHER.
Under your arrangement with the Marconi Co., did the company pay the Titanic for the privilege of operating its machine on the ship, or did the ship pay the Marconi Co.?
Mr. FRANKLIN.
That I could not go into detail about with you, because the entire arrangement is made between the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. - that is the White Star Line - and the Marconi Co; in Liverpool, and it is a matter of agreement between the two companies, and we have nothing to do with it on this side of the Atlantic.
(Witness Excused.)