Senator SMITH.
Now, Mr. Marconi, you say you were in touch with your offices in New York each day and night from the day of this catastrophe until the landing of the Carpathia, seeking information. I would like to know whether you are aware of the fact that the American Marconi Co. requested and secured the suppression of the operation of all its stations so as to expedite the receipt of news?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; I am aware that the American Marconi Co. did everything in its power to expedite the receipt of news.
Senator SMITH.
Did they suppress -
Mr. MARCONI.
They stopped the operation of any station which might interfere with the reception of news, or communication with any other ship or station which would have been directly concerned in this.
Senator SMITH.
They put a silence signal on all their stations?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; except those which were necessary and essential to the obtaining of news or information.
Senator SMITH.
What stations were those that came within the exception?
Mr. MARCONI.
The stations that belonged to the United Wireless Co., the assets of which have been absorbed by the Marconi Co. They were requested not to operate with any ship, or not to practice. One or two Marconi stations - I can not recall which - which were not essential, or which were unnecessary to communicate to the Carpathia, were asked not to transmit, and I think also some arrangement was made with the United States Navy with regard to minimizing any interference that might have occurred between the Marconi stations and the naval stations.
Senator SMITH.
Did the American Marconi Co. enjoin a silence on the stations of the United States Navy?
Mr. MARCONI.
They had no power of enjoining silence on them.
Senator SMITH.
Did they attempt to?
Mr. MARCONI.
They had some friendly communication with the United States Navy in regard to what best could be done.
Senator SMITH.
The Marconi Co. requested it?
Mr. MARCONI.
I have no knowledge of exactly what passed, but I know that my feeling and opinion was that we should request or ask or arrange with the United States Navy to cooperate with us in this matter.
Senator SMITH.
Did they do it?
Mr. MARCONI.
As far as I am aware, they did.
Senator SMITH.
So that plans were made and carried out which were calculated to give the American Marconi Co. practically exclusive control over the information about this catastrophe?
Mr. MARCONI.
It was bound to have it, in this way: that the operator of the Carpathia was a Marconi operator, as was the operator of the Titanic, and therefore he had to respond or communicate with the organization with which he was in touch and with which he was accustomed to work.
Senator SMITH.
Did you yourself send any communications to your English office or offices or stations about the matter?
Mr. MARCONI.
Not until long after the survivors had landed.
Senator SMITH.
Did you enjoin silence upon your English stations?
Mr. MARCONI.
I did not; nor would I have the power of doing so.
Senator SMITH.
That is under the control of the Government?
Mr. MARCONI.
It is under the control of the Government and is under the control of my co-directors in England.
Senator SMITH.
You made no attempt to do so?
Mr. MARCONI.
I made no attempt, and it would be contrary to what I wished.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Mr. Marconi, you are a life Senator of Italy, are you not?
Mr. MARCONI.
I am not. I heard of a rumor of the desire of electing me, but I am not eligible until I am 40 years of age.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Regarding this arrangement with Mr. Bride, you simply expressed a willingness that he should make some money out of a narration of his experiences?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes, sir. My feeling, expressed quite frankly, is that these operators are paid a very small amount; that certainly we would have compensated them to some degree; but if it were possible for them to make some money out of the story that they had - I do not say that they had exclusive information, but through permitting themselves to be interviewed - I was very glad that they should make this small amount. That was my sole feeling in the matter.>
Senator NEWLANDS.
You say that this Marconigram sent by Mr. Sammis was sent about the time the Carpathia was entering New York Harbor?
Mr. MARCONI.
So I understand.
Senator NEWLANDS.
So that would not have interfered at all with any action on the part of the operator in giving full formation prior to that time?
Mr. MARCONI.
No; it would not have.
Senator NEWLANDS.
And it was not to be expected whilst they were entering New York Harbor that the operator would be able to give much information, however willing he might have been to do so?
Mr. MARCONI.
Certainly. I might also state that if the captain had seen fit to send a report of what he knew, he could have done it at any time; and no instructions, rightly or wrongly given, could have held the operator.
Senator NEWLANDS.
I presume it would have been very difficult to send by wireless a long and minute account of this entire disaster, would it not, from the Carpathia while at sea?
Mr. MARCONI.
It would have been very difficult to send a long account. Some short account might have been sent; but you must remember these operators who have been before this committee are men of not very much experience in general matters, but rely very much upon the captain instructing them.
Senator NEWLANDS.
You had in view simply his receiving compensation after his arrival for any story he might be able to give to a newspaper?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; but I had no intention that the information should be withheld in any way.
Senator NEWLANDS.
That is all I desire to ask.
Senator FLETCHER.
Mr. Marconi, is there any wireless company operating in England other than the Marconi?
Mr. MARCONI.
I should say, practically, no. There are one or possibly two companies, that have two or three ships, I think; but the bulk of the ships or the great majority of the British ships are fitted by the Marconi Co. I should say hundreds are fitted by the Marconi Co. and a few, 6 or 7, 8 or 10, by the others.
Senator FLETCHER.
Are there laws regulating radio communication?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; there is the English wireless-telegraph act and also England is a member of the Berlin Convention, which is in force.
Senator FLETCHER.
Do you remember the date of the wireless telegraph act?
Mr. MARCONI.
I think it was 1904 or 1905 - something like that.
Senator FLETCHER.
Are there any other companies in Germany or Canada?
Mr. MARCONI.
In Canada there is a Marconi Co. In Germany there is a company the interests of which are held by the Marconi Co. of England, and partly by a German concern. I think there are some Belgians interested in it too.
Senator FLETCHER.
By whom were these operators on the Titanic and Olympic and Carpathia employed?
Mr. MARCONI.
They were employed by the English company.
Senator FLETCHER.
The wireless company?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; the Marconi International Marine Co.
Senator FLETCHER.
Not by the ships themselves?
Mr. MARCONI.
In the case of the Titanic and the Carpathia, I think they were employed by the Marconi Co. On some ships they are employed directly by the shipowners.
Senator FLETCHER.
But in the instances here, Bride, Phillips, and Cottam were employed by the Marconi Co., were they?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes, sir.
Senator FLETCHER.
They were under direction and control of the Marconi Co.?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; except so far as it does not affect the supreme authority of the captain.
Senator FLETCHER.
The captain can give orders about sending messages - when to send and what to send?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes. There is a special clause in our agreements with them that that shall be fixed so that in case of emergency or danger the captain is absolute chief and head and ruler of everything concerning the wireless, and all the commercial rules which hold in ordinary times are suspended at the discretion of the captain.
Senator FLETCHER.
Of course, the captain can not know whether his orders are being obeyed or not? He himself is not able to conduct the actual operation of an instrument in any way?
Mr. MARCONI.
No.
Senator FLETCHER.
He has to depend on the operator?
Mr. MARCONI.
He generally orders that messages have got to be censored by him or by one of his officers. On most ships no message of any kind can leave the ship unless it is approved by the captain or the officer he has delegated.
Senator FLETCHER.
But the captain himself would not know actually whether the message had been sent? He must rely on the statement of the operator as to that?
Mr. MARCONI.
You refer to his own messages?
Senator FLETCHER.
Unless he is an expert himself.
Mr. MARCONI.
No, sir; if the captain sends a message he always asks the operator afterwards if he has any doubt whether it has been sent, and whether it has been acknowledged. I, myself, have seen that done on ships very often he usually gets that information very easily. They have a telephone, as a rule, between the bridge and the wireless operator.
Senator FLETCHER.
But the captain on board the ship will not himself know whether the message which he has directed sent has actually ever been sent, will he?
Mr. MARCONI.
No; I should say he would know it, because if the captain gave a message that was not sent or was not acknowledged, it would be the duty of the operator to inform the captain of the fact.
Senator FLETCHER.
Yes; but suppose the operator violated his duty?
Mr. MARCONI.
Then he would not know it; but I do not think that occurs very often.
Senator FLETCHER.
Then these operators on these ships which we have mentioned here were employed by the Marconi Co., were paid by the Marconi Co., were engaged by the Marconi Co., furnished by the Marconi Co., and certified by the Marconi Co. to the ships they were on?
Mr. MARCONI.
I should add to that that they were certified by the British Government, because they must be licensed by the Government in order to be permitted to operate; and they were accepted by the ship company, because the ship company has the right to accept an operator, or refuse him if they have any good reason for so doing.
Senator FLETCHER.
Do you know what the law requires as to experience of these operators and their training?
Mr. MARCONI.
The law requires that they shall have knowledge of the apparatus; that they shall be able to repair faults in it: that they shall be able to transmit and receive with a certain speed and accuracy; and that they shall be cognizant of the rules and regulations of the British wireless-telegraph act and with the enactments of the Berlin Convention regulating wireless telegraphy.
Senator FLETCHER.
Do you know what experience these men had, Cottam and Bride and Phillips?
Mr. MARCONI.
I think their experience was sufficient to enable them to carry out their work. The Government examination is pretty strict in the matter, and I think my company's examination, too, is very strict.
Senator FLETCHER.
I was asking as to your personal knowledge. I understood you to say you knew personally several of these operators, and had known them for some time
Mr. MARCONI.
I had not known these particular operators.
Senator FLETCHER.
You had not?
Mr. MARCONI.
Only since the accident.
Senator FLETCHER.
Is there any danger of interference in radio communication, and difficulty in that respect, where messages are being sent back and forth, and messages in other directions, between other ships or between ships and the shore, are being sent at the same time? Is not confusion likely to follow by such interference as that?
Mr. MARCONI.
The confusion is likely to follow unless the arrangement of the stations and ship stations is properly regulated. That is controlled by the rule which govern the wave length to be used, and which generally compel the operators to discipline in the working of the apparatus. The result is that in England and other European countries ships use two wave lengths, one for communication with shore stations. The shore stations use other wave lengths which do not interfere with the ships communicating with each other. The Royal Navy, the Navy of England, uses wave lengths different from the commercial navy, in order that there shall be no interference with or by them. Other wave lengths are used by the army, and still different wave lengths are used by them in communicating between England and foreign countries, like between England and Canada. The Government, represented by the post office, decides, after consulting the parties interested, what wave lengths shall be apportioned to each particular service. I myself, apart from my company, have an experimental station in England, and I am given a certain wave length to work on which does not interfere with the navy station at Portsmouth. If I want to change it, after consultation with them they let me change it if I am reasonable in the matter. Everything is regulated in such way as to cause a minimum of interference, and I think so far this regulation has been highly successful.
Senator FLETCHER.
And the regulation that you advise would have reference to the wave length?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; the wave length, and what we call the damping of the wave - whether it is a wave likely to interfere or not. There are what we call exclusive waves, and troublesome, meddlesome waves.
Senator FLETCHER.
Now, in order to accomplish results in that direction, how would you reach all interests and all parties that might be concerned? For instance, the laws of one country are one way and the laws of another country another way, and shipping is going on between those two countries.
Mr. MARCONI.
The Berlin Convention has already arranged that with all countries, and I suppose you are aware of it, but it is going to meet again in June in England, and no doubt anything else that any country wants to bring forward to discuss at that meeting will be considered then.
Senator FLETCHER.
Now we will pass from that. Your suggestion was that as the ship approached the harbor of New York it would probably have been impossible to get wireless news from the ship on account of interference. How would you avoid that?
Mr. MARCONI.
I would avoid that by legislation and regulation. I would make it necessary for wireless stations to be licensed by the Government. I do not presume to advise the Government in this matter, but I am expressing my opinion.
Senator FLETCHER.
Yes; that is what I am asking for.
Mr. MARCONI.
I would apportion wave lengths to various parties in such a manner that interference would not be created. If, however, too many people asked for license in a given area or district, so that wave lengths could not be found to accommodate them all, the authorities in that case would have to refuse any more licenses. My advice would be that they should exercise their powers of discretion and try to do their best and not stop experimentation, which might handicap the progress of the art. In England if some experimental scientist or some one else wants to put up a station in a place where he will interfere with the navy, he is told he can not do it; but he is offered another part of the country where he can carry on his work without interfering with anyone. I should say, now, in England it is a punishable offense to put up a station without a license. It is something like having a still without a license of the Government in some other countries; it is considered wrong. If you will allow me also to state, everyone who has a license, experimental or otherwise, to operate wireless telegraphy, is enjoined to secrecy and must not divulge the contents of any message he may happen to receive. If he should do so his license is suspended, and he is liable to other penalties.
Senator FLETCHER.
Passing from that to the subject of these communications, would you feel, Mr. Marconi, that your company, or an operator employed by your company, would have the right - the legal right, I am speaking of, now, irrespective of the moral right - to withhold information from the public in order to sell it as news?
Mr. MARCONI.
You are speaking of the legal right?
Senator FLETCHER.
Yes.
Mr. MARCONI.
As to an operator, I should say no; he would have no legal right to withhold it. But at the same time there is nothing to compel him to send it. If he was ordered by the captain, or if somebody sent a message through him or tendered a message for transmission to shore, he would be obliged to send it; but there is nothing, I think, which legally compels him to make up a story on the ship and send it ashore.
Senator FLETCHER.
How about his answering inquiries?
Mr. MARCONI.
Well of course, the inquiries ought to be properly addressed to the captain. The wireless operator is only a subordinate official, whose business it is to operate the wireless. He is not usually a man who can give very accurate information concerning matters relating to a ship.
Senator FLETCHER.
Do you mean, for instance; if the operator on this Titanic had received a message inquiring after the condition of the ship, that it would have been his business to communicate that to the commander, and then answer according to the direction of the commander?
Mr. MARCONI.
That is what he should have done.
Senator FLETCHER.
He himself should not have replied?
Mr. MARCONI.
No; he himself should not have replied; quite true. That would be against the rules.
Senator FLETCHER.
You can concede, I presume, that if an operator is allowed to sell as news information such as these operators had, he would be tempted to withhold information and refrain from answering inquiries in order to increase the value of his story, would he not?
Mr. MARCONI.
He might be; but I never looked at that way before.
Senator SMITH.
You say that Binns made use of the information he had of the Republic disaster, and sold it for his own benefit?
Mr. MARCONI.
No; I do not exactly say that. I say that, he received payment for something that he said, for some story which he gave in regard to the Republic disaster.
Senator SMITH.
You referred to the commendable course taken by Bride, the surviving operator of the Titanic, which merited the highest praise, evidently, in your mind.
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Do you not think it would be wise to encourage among your operators all over the world the same loyalty and courage and daring and discipline that was shown by Bride?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes; and I think everything that it is possible to do in that direction is being done.
Senator SMITH.
Do you remember that Mr. Bride said that about two minutes before the Titanic sank - I asked him if he left the sinking ship, and his reply was, " No, sir," and I said to him, "Why did you not leave?" and he said, "Because the captain had not given me permission." That was a pretty high order of discipline, was it not?
Mr. MARCONI.
Absolutely the highest.
Senator SMITH.
For such a service as that do you not think it might very appropriately be left to the generosity and appreciation of the people of the world to reward him instead of encouraging him to get additional compensation by retailing his experiences to a single newspaper for $500?
Mr. MARCONI.
I think it might be left to them. I want to just follow up what I said by saying that in the case of Binns, he was compensated in a special way by the company which employed him.
Senator SMITH.
By your company?
Mr. MARCONI.
By my company, and no doubt something of the same kind will be done for Bride and Cottam.
Senator SMITH.
Before you leave the stand, would you care to indicate whether in the future management of the Marconi Co. you would not discourage the course that was taken by these two men with regard to the sale of the stories of which they were in possession?
Mr. MARCONI.
I certainly would. But I should add that I would like that there should be no misunderstanding of this matter. I had no intention of authorizing any exclusive story, and I was against the withholding of any news.
Senator SMITH.
I understood you to say that, Mr. Marconi. You are not under subpoena?
Mr. MARCONI.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You have come voluntarily?
Mr. MARCONI.
I have come voluntarily, and as long as I can possibly be in the United States I will be at the disposal of the committee for any information which they may require.
Senator SMITH.
You expected to leave for Europe yesterday or today?
Mr. MARCONI.
I expected to leave Tuesday.
Senator SMITH.
And you voluntarily refrained from going until you could communicate with me?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes, sir; because I thought there might be something which you might require to see me about.
Senator SMITH.
And you came here of your own accord and are willing to remain?
Mr. MARCONI.
I am willing to remain for a certain time. My engagements in England are very pressing. Therefore I would ask you to let me go as soon as possible.
Senator SMITH.
Can I ask you to have Mr. Sammis and Mr. Bottomley come?
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Will you undertake to do that?
Mr. MARCONI.
I will undertake to do that. I would like to know when.
Senator SMITH.
Just as soon as they can get ready.
Mr. MARCONI.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
That is all. I want to thank you for your kindness.
Mr. MARCONI.
Will you allow me to say one thing that you did not ask me?
Senator SMITH.
Yes.
Mr. MARCONI.
In our organization a copy is kept of every message received and sent on board a ship. Therefore, this register of messages may be of some use to the committee.
Senator SMITH.
Kindly get the time when each message was sent, and the messages that passed between the Carpathia, if you please, and Mr. Bottomley and yourself, during those days between the accident and the arrival of the Carpathia, if we may have them?
Mr. MARCONI.
Unfortunately the messages on the Carpathia were taken to the Mediterranean by the Carpathia. The captain would not land them. We endeavored to get them, but the captain would not give them out.
Senator SMITH.
Would it be possible for you to wire the operator of the Carpathia and ask him to wire back copies of those messages?
Mr. MARCONI.
I could ask him to do so. Of course, they will be in the hands of the British Government very soon, these messages.
Senator SMITH.
Try, will you, and see if you can get them?
Mr. MARCONI.
I will try.
Senator SMITH.
I am greatly obliged to you for your kindness in coming. Let the officer bring in Mr. Cottam, the operator on the Carpathia.