British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 32
Final Arguments, cont.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I think it might have been the "Mesaba's" ice, because your Lordship will recollect that the message from the "Mesaba" which did not reach the bridge, was at about 11 o'clock at night, I think.
The Commissioner:
What I mean is this. We have had a coloured parallelogram placed upon a chart based upon the different Marconigrams, including the "Mesaba's"; and if that parallelogram is accurately depicted upon the chart the vessel at the time of the striking was within the ice region mentioned.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, and your Lordship sees that the "Mesaba" ice was reported as being within that parallelogram - reported to the Marconi room on the "Titanic" as late as 11 o'clock, I think, on the Sunday.
The Commissioner:
9.40 p.m., I am told.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, 9.40 p.m.
The Commissioner:
He was right in the middle of the "Mesaba" ice.
Sir Robert Finlay:
He was right in the middle of the "Mesaba" ice. If the "Mesaba" message had reached the bridge this disaster would never have happened. Here is the "Mesaba" message: "In latitude 42 N. to 41.25; longitude 49 W. to longitude 50.30 W., saw much heavy pack ice and great number of icebergs."
The Commissioner:
Can you tell me in what way the "Mesaba" would gather this information which is contained in her Marconigram?
Sir Robert Finlay:
The expression in the Marconigram is "saw."
The Commissioner:
It seems over a very large field.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Your Lordship will recollect that the Marconi operator from the "Mesaba" said he had combined in this Marconigram two messages from the Captain. They had passed through this region; the Captain had made two communications to him of what they had seen, and he fused these two together in this message which states that they had seen "much heavy pack ice and great number large icebergs, also field ice, weather good, clear." Your Lordship will recollect how Mr. Lightoller, when this matter was brought forward by the Solicitor-General at a latish stage of Mr. Lightoller's evidence, said, "We never could have got that."
The Commissioner:
Speaking for myself I think it would be absolutely wrong to impute to the Captain a knowledge of the "Mesaba" message. If they did get that message they were grossly careless - very, very grossly careless.
Sir Robert Finlay:
But they did not get it, and why they did not get it is perfectly apparent.
The Commissioner:
Why they did not get it, I should think, is this, that Phillips was too busy to bother about it, he did not appreciate its significance.
Sir Robert Finlay:
He was very busy indeed, I am not blaming him.
The Commissioner:
I am not disposed to impute any great blame to Phillips. I daresay he thought that it was a matter of no consequence, and I daresay he had not the ability to distinguish the consequence of it. I do not know whether he had or had not. I suppose it would require him to have a chart before him and the ability to find out where upon the chart this message stated the ice to be. At the same time he had the directions, which we know, that all telegrams affecting the navigation of the ship are to take precedence of any others.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
He had that, and he must have neglected that because he must have seen that this was a Marconigram that did affect the navigation of the ship.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Your Lordship recollects the evidence. I will give you the references, if you desire it - showing that there was a mass of business to be done with Cape Race.
The Commissioner:
I shall want you to give me those references before you finish.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I will do it now, if your Lordship pleases.
The Commissioner:
It is suggested that the track may not have been safe from field ice - the track, that is to say, that he was following; the field ice was a good deal further South, according to these Marconigrams, than was usual.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I quite recognise that, my Lord, but it does not at all affect the observation your Lordship made. As a matter of fact, the "Titanic" did not encounter any field ice.
The Commissioner:
I was thinking of that observation, but the question is, were not the Marconigrams of such a nature as to give the Captain warning that he might encounter field ice?
Sir Robert Finlay:
I submit not, for this reason. The field ice in the "Caronia's" message was in latitude 42 North. That field ice could not come in a Southerly direction. The current that would influence it would be the Gulf Stream, which goes to the North-East.
The Commissioner:
That is the difficulty. It is said that it does not at all follow that it could not come South.
Sir Robert Finlay:
It would be very extraordinary if it did.
The Commissioner:
It is suggested that the field ice behind it might be forced through.
Sir Robert Finlay:
But the Gulf Stream is a pretty broad thing, and where you get icebergs to the South of the Gulf Stream they are icebergs which have been forced through the Gulf Stream by the Labrador Current operating on the lower part of the icebergs; but with the field ice there is no such influence.
The Commissioner:
And I am reminded that the evidence is that the water at 10 o'clock that night was intensely cold. That looks as if they were not in the water of the Gulf Stream at that time.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I will refer presently to the evidence with regard to the temperature. There may be a local difference in the temperature in the Gulf Stream. With reference to what your Lordship said just now, I observe this Note on the small chart towards the left-hand side: "The Gulf Stream Eastward of 65 deg. W. longitude is usually in streaks of warm water with colder water between."
The Commissioner:
And "Its rate diminishes as the Westerly longitude decreases."
Sir Robert Finlay:
That is to say, as it is going Eastward its rate is falling until it becomes very slight when it gets to the West coast of Scotland. So that I submit to your Lordship that it is impossible to deduce from the coldness of the water - which I will deal with more in detail by-and-by - that they were in the Labrador Current. That would be an extraordinary phenomenon, because it would mean this: that the Labrador Current was running on the surface at a spot where all the charts show the Gulf Stream.
The Commissioner:
I see there is also on the chart: "Average Northern limit of the Gulf Stream."
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes. Your Lordship will observe with reference to what your Lordship said just now as to the average Northern limit that at the Southern side you have got a Note which seems to import that the arrows there mark the limit in that direction, for the Note is: "South of this line the currents are variable."
The Commissioner:
"South of this line the currents are variable, but North of the line they are not."
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes. I can only say how much I deplore the fact that Captain Smith is not here. With his enormous experience of the Atlantic he would have been able to tell us what passed through his mind, and to deal with every suggestion that may be made.
The Commissioner:
Unfortunately we have to do our best without him.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I can only deal with all these suggestions to the best of my ability, and by the light of the evidence.
The Commissioner:
I think all that was meant was that your observations were not conclusive, and that they leave some matters in doubt.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I could not aspire, my Lord, to put the case with regard to the considerations that influenced Captain Smith in the course that he took on a basis of certainty. I can only offer what I submit is a very probable explanation, and I can only lament most deeply the fact that we have not got the means of knowing what this very experienced Officer thought of the situation, and what were the elements which he took into account in making this diversion from his course. Your Lordship asked that I should give at this point the references with regard to the messages not delivered. I was about to do that.
The Commissioner:
I am not sure that I am asking you a question the answer to which will be material, but I should like to know - I had better know it, I think - what was the ice that he did encounter, if it is to be identified at all with the ice in the Marconigram.
Sir Robert Finlay:
It is not to be identified; it is impossible to identify it. What I say is this. It must have been a berg which at the time the "Caronia" ice was seen on the 12th was to the Northward of that ice, and which had come down under the influence of the Labrador Stream affecting the big bergs - had come down to the Southward and got to that spot. He avoided the "Caronia" ice because the "Caronia" ice would have passed further to the South than his track. He did not avoid this because this was in the rear of the "Caronia" ice and unfortunately caught the "Titanic." But he had no warning of it, and it is absolutely impossible to identify this ice as belonging to any ice which had been seen in a Northerly position. It may in all probability be part of the ice reported in the "Mesaba's" message.
The Commissioner:
It occurs to me that it was the ice reported by the "Mesaba" message, because the actual striking took place in a region which the "Mesaba" message referred to.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I quite agree, my Lord, and for that reason I was about to give your Lordship the reference to the Marconigrams not delivered. There are two other references in the same connection which relate to other messages which I had better give, and then I will read the passages relating to the "Mesaba" message. The first "Californian" message, your Lordship will recollect Bride said - and we do not dispute it - was delivered by him to some Officer on the bridge. That Officer must be lost.
The Commissioner:
Bride, I think, said that he never heard of any message except the "Californian's."
Sir Robert Finlay:
That is so, my Lord. In the first column on page 391, at Question 16663, your Lordship will find what he says about the first message: "I think you stated it was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon on this Sunday when you heard the "Californian" message? - (A.) I said five. (Q.) Five, you said? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) I thought you said three, but you say it was 5 o'clock by ship's time? - (A.) Yes, between 5 and half-past. (Q.) You knew it was an ice message? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) I think you stated to the Attorney-General that you were engaged in adding up your accounts? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And then you went on adding up your accounts, and paid no attention to this message? - (A.) No. (Q.) Then some time afterwards, I forget whether you gave us the time, you happened to hear it repeated? - (A.) Yes, that is correct. (Q.) Then you had not written it down when you heard it the first time? - (A.) No. (Q.) You knew it was a message to the "Titanic"? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Reporting ice? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) You did not write it down? - (A.) No. (Q.) You took no notice of it at all, but went on adding up your accounts? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Then, if you had not happened to hear that message repeated to another ship, nothing would ever have been heard of that message? - (A.) Yes, it would. (Q.) Well, forgive me. It gave the latitude and longitude. You had written nothing down when the message first came? - (A.) No. (Q.) Do you suggest that without writing anything down, and being busy with accounts, you can trust yourself to carry in your head the latitude and longitude which had been given in the message? - (A.) No, I had read the text of the message, which mentioned three large bergs. I had not got the latitude and longitude, and I should have called the "Californian" if she had not transmitted it at a very short period afterwards and asked her for the latitude and longitude. (Q.) The latitude and longitude you could not have carried in your head? - (A.) No. (Q.) The only way of getting that message would have been to call the "Californian" afterwards to get the latitude and longitude? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) You happened to hear it repeated, did you say, a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes afterwards? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Are you sure about the time? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Had you finished your accounts by that time? - (A.) No. (Q.) Were you still on your accounts? - (A.) Yes. (The Commissioner.) What are those accounts? (Sir Robert Finlay.) What were you doing? - (A.) I was writing up an abstract of all the telegrams sent the day before. (The Solicitor-General.) That is the procès-verbal (Sir Robert Finlay - To the Witness.) Is that what has been called the procès-verbal? - (A.) No; the telegrams. It gives the place where the telegram originated from and where it is going to, the station it is sent to, and the cost of the telegram and the costs of the coast station; our charge, and everybody else's charge, one by one."
The Commissioner:
That is referring to private telegrams.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes. "16686: Then when you heard it repeated you recognised it as being the message which had been sent to your ship? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And wrote it down, and took it on to the bridge? - (A.) Yes."
The Commissioner:
That is a very slack way of doing business. He ought, according to the Regulations, to have taken that telegram on to the bridge at once, and not waited for the chance of it being repeated.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, my Lord. Then, my Lord, with regard to the second "Californian" message, your Lordship will find that in the evidence of Mr. Evans, at page 202, Question 8988, Evans was the Marconi operator on the "Californian," and this is the message that was sent after the "Californian" was stopped and surrounded by ice: "8988. What did the Captain say when you said that? - (A.) He said, 'You had better advise the 'Titanic' we are stopped and surrounded by ice.' (Q.) Did you get an answer from the 'Titanic'? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Can you give me the time? - (A.) It was 9.5 p.m. (Q.) New York time? - (A.) Yes; 11 o'clock ship's time. (Q.) What did you say? - (A.) I said, 'We are stopped and surrounded by ice.' (Q.) Did you get an answer from the 'Titanic'? - (A.) They said 'Keep out.' (Q.) Just explain to us, will you, what that means? - (A.) Well, Sir, he was working to Cape Race at the time. Cape Race was sending messages to him, and when I started to send he could not hear what Cape Race was sending. (Q.) Does that mean that you would send louder than Cape Race to him? - (A.) Yes; and he did not want me to interfere. (Q.) That would interrupt his conversation with Cape Race? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) So that he asked you to "Keep out"? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) In ordinary Marconi practice is that a common thing to be asked? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And you do not take it as an insult or anything like that? (The Commissioner.) What did you say? (The Solicitor-General.) "You do not take it as an insult or anything like that." (To the Witness.) Do I understand rightly then that a Marconi operator, like other people, can only clearly hear one thing at a time? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Have you any means of knowing - do you judge that he had heard your message about ice? When you say you sent this message and he said "keep out," did he say that after he had got your message? - (A.) The very minute I stopped sending. (The Commissioner.) You cannot tell, I suppose, whether he heard what you said? - (A.) He must have heard it, my Lord, but I do not know whether he took it down. (Q.) Would he hear what you said, or would he merely hear that you were speaking? You see, as I understand, he was getting messages from two points - from Cape Race and from you. He could not hear both, I suppose, at the same time? - (A.) No, my Lord. (Q.) And he may not have heard what you said, though he may have known that you were trying to speak to him. I do not know, you know; I am only asking? - (A.) Well, my Lord, my signal would be much stronger than Cape Race's. (Q.) You think that he would have heard you, and you would, as it were, obliterate Cape Race? - (A.) Certainly, my Lord." "9013: You say who you are? - (A.) First of all you give his call signal, and then yours afterwards. (Q.) And then you gave him this message, spelt it out, that you were stopped in ice, and then he replies to you, 'Keep out.' How do you know he was talking to Cape Race? - (A.) I heard him beforehand. (Q.) You could hear him? - (A.) Beforehand, and directly after that. (The Commissioner.) What was it you heard? - (A.) Before that, my Lord? (Q.) No. What was it that you heard which conveyed to you that he was in communication with Cape Race? - (A.) Directly afterwards he called up Cape Race - a few seconds after. (Q.) After he had said to you, 'Keep out'? - (A.) Yes, my Lord. (The Solicitor-General.) Could you overhear what he was saying to Cape Race? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) What was it he said? - (A.) He said, "Sorry, please repeat, jammed." (Q.) That means that somebody else had interrupted? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) After that did you hear him continuing to send messages? - (A.) Right up till I turned in."
The Commissioner:
That was about 11 o'clock, was it not?
Sir Robert Finlay:
11.30, I think. "9023. It was not your business, and I have no doubt you did not listen in detail to what they were, but could you tell, as a matter of fact, whether they were private messages? - (A.) Yes, all private messages you can tell by the prefix. (The Commissioner.) That means messages from passengers? (The Solicitor-General.) Yes, business and private messages for the passengers. (To the Witness.) You can tell that by what you call the prefix, the sound that is sent first of all? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And that continued, you say, till you turned in? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) When was it that you turned in? - (A.) 11.30 p.m. ship's time." Then, at page 391, Bride says something in confirmation of that. It begins at the very top of the second column. "16690. What I said was, trade and private messages sent on to Cape Race would be paid for extra? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) They would not be included in the service messages? - (A.) No. (Q.) I think you used the expression - I am not sure whether his Lordship caught it - there was a very large accumulation of those messages? - (A.) Yes. (The Commissioner.) That is the accumulation of those messages cleared off while the Witness was asleep? (Sir Robert Finlay.) How long was Phillips occupied in clearing off those arrears of messages for Cape Race? He began at 8.30? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) When did he finish? - (A.) I should estimate he could not have finished before 9 anyhow from the batch he had," that is the messages to be sent from the "Titanic" I infer. "But I could not give you any idea as to when he did actually finish. (Q.) I think you saw Phillips about 10 minutes before the collision, did you not? - (A.) No, after the collision. (Q.) I want to ask you about what you said in America before the Committee of the Senate on this point. Were you asked this question, and did you give this answer: "Were you working with Cape Race, or was Phillips, to your knowledge, just before the collision with the iceberg? - (A.) As far as I recollect, Phillips had finished working with Cape Race ten minutes before the collision with the iceberg. He made mention of the fact when I turned out. (Q.) Did you say that, and is that true? - (A.) I said that, but I could not remember what he said now. (Q.) But did you say that? - (A.) I said that to Senator Smith, but I could not recollect now what Phillips told me after I had turned out."
The Commissioner:
His recollection was probably better when he was talking to Senator Smith than it was some weeks afterwards when he was talking to you.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes. The next question was this: "16698. Was what you said to Senator Smith true? - (A.) Well, I was on oath at the time."
The Commissioner:
What does he mean by that. Does he mean it was true or it was not true?
Sir Robert Finlay:
I think he means that it must have been true.
The Commissioner:
The next question answered it: "I presume what you said was true? - (A.) Yes."
Sir Robert Finlay:
"16700. (The Commissioner.) Then what you stated just now must be a mistake? - (A.) What was that? (Q.) That this man had finished his work about 9 o'clock. - (A.) I said he could not have finished sending the batch of telegrams before 9. At the same time Cape Race would have a number of telegrams to transmit to him, as was proved by the "Californian." The "Californian" said she heard Cape Race sending him telegrams. (Sir Robert Finlay.) You know Phillips was engaged in communicating with Cape Race right on from half-past 8 to 10 minutes before the collision."
The Commissioner:
That is what I want.
Sir Robert Finlay:
"(A.) Apparently so, yes. (Q.) Well, have you any doubt about it? - (A.) No, I do not think so. I am judging by the amount of work that was got through. (Q.) He was engaged during these hours from half-past 8 to 10 minutes before the collision in communicating with Cape Race these trade and private messages? - (A.) Yes." With regard to the evidence as to the "Mesaba" message, we have got simply the proof of the sending of the acknowledgment by the operator.
The Commissioner:
Can you tell me this: How, if at all, was the "Californian's" message acknowledged?
Sir Robert Finlay:
The first message, my Lord, was acknowledged by the operator.
The Commissioner:
And in any other way?
Sir Robert Finlay:
In no other way. The second message was recognised by saying: "Keep out." He may or may not have recognised what the message was, but what he said was "Keep out." That means, my Lord, "You are interrupting me in my communication with Cape Race." And then he said to Cape Race: "Very sorry, jammed. I have been interrupted by somebody else"; and he goes on with his communications with Cape Race till ten minutes before the collision.
The Commissioner:
The "Baltic's" telegram and the "Caronia's" telegram were both acknowledged in the name of Captain Smith were not they.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, my Lord, and "thanks." I think there was a message of "kind regards," or something of that kind.
The Commissioner:
But the word "Smith" was included.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, that is so. The first "Californian" message was not acknowledged in that way, but your Lordship's observation was that it related only to the "Baltic" and the "Caronia."
The Commissioner:
The observations I have just made related to the "Baltic" and the "Caronia," that is to say that both messages were acknowledged in the name of Captain Smith.
Sir Robert Finlay:
That is so.
The Commissioner:
But the "Californian" message was never acknowledged in that way.
Sir Robert Finlay:
That is so, that is what I ventured to put to you.
(After a short adjournment.)
The Commissioner:
As Sir Robert is not here at the moment I am going to ask you, Mr. Laing, if you can tell me how long you are going to be?
Mr. Laing:
I thought I should say all I want to say certainly within an hour.
The Commissioner:
Now, you were going to say something rude; you were going to add, "but if I am interrupted."
Mr. Laing:
No, my Lord; but I thought if your Lordship wanted further information that I have got at hand it might take longer, but with the material I have prepared I certainly think it will not take more than an hour.
The Commissioner:
And how long is Mr. Dunlop to take?
Mr. Laing:
I could not answer for that.
The Commissioner:
But you know him.
Mr. Laing:
Yes, I know him.
The Commissioner:
How long do you think he will take?
Mr. Laing:
My Lord, I think he will be more than an hour.
The Commissioner:
That is very indefinite.
Mr. Laing:
I could not answer for him.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I was dealing with the question of the course that the Captain took, and I pointed out as regards the field ice and shallow and small bergs reported by the "Caronia" he had given them, by deflection to the South, a wider berth than he would have had if he had kept to the ordinary track.
As regards the deep bigger bergs which would be influenced by the Labrador Current, the Labrador Current is stated in the "United States Pilot" in the passages I have already read, to be of variable force, but one knot is suggested as a not unusual force. It is not so rapid as the Gulf Stream. If it were one knot the "Caronia" ice in 48 hours would have been taken 48 miles to the South of the spot at which it was reported, which is a long way to the South of the course which the "Titanic" took. If it went only half a knot an hour it would have gone 24 miles, which would be several miles to the South of the course which the "Titanic" took. I therefore suggest for your Lordship's consideration that although it is impossible to know what passed through the Commander's mind in all probability his calculation was: "I will give the field ice and the smaller bergs a clear berth and I will pass under the stern of the bigger bergs which must have gone further South than the track I am going." That is why he went just so far South and no further.
My Lord, there is only one fact I recall to your Lordship's recollection; the time at which the "Mesaba" message was sent was according to "Titanic" time 9.40; it was 7.50 according to New York time which the "Mesaba" was keeping, and 9.40 "Titanic" time. So your Lordship sees the point of time at which it arrived at the "Titanic."
I think those are all the considerations which I have to submit to your Lordship bearing directly on the question of the navigation of the vessel. In the result, I respectfully submit that Captain Smith and his coadjutors on this ship are vindicated from all blame. The result was unfortunate, but it was an accident that might have happened, as it did happen, to the most careful and experienced navigator, owing to the emergence of new conditions which may profoundly affect the future of the navigation of the North Atlantic.
Now, in connection with this subject and what took place on board the vessel, I have said only a very few words in regard to Mr. Ismay. I am prepared to deal at length with Mr. Ismay's evidence, but I do not know how far it is necessary for me to go. I do not know whether the Attorney-General can give me any indication on that point. I am prepared to go through Mr. Ismay's evidence, and I hope to satisfy your Lordship beyond all doubt that Mr. Ismay never interfered by giving any directions with regard to the navigation of the vessel; that it would have been most improper for him so to do; and that the Marconigram from the "Baltic" was certainly not shown to him by Captain Smith by way of inviting advice or directions from Mr. Ismay.
The Commissioner:
There is no evidence that Mr. Ismay interfered in any way with the navigation of the ship.
Sir Robert Finlay:
No.
The Commissioner:
There is at the best or at the worst only surmise.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
One naturally asks why did the Captain show the telegram.
The Attorney-General:
That is the whole point.
The Commissioner:
And one also asks why did Mr. Ismay before the voyage commenced, take upon himself to go into the engine room and have a conversation with the Chief Engineer.
Sir Robert Finlay:
If your Lordship pleases. Then I think it would probably be better that I should refer to Mr. Ismay's evidence.
The Commissioner:
I was pointing out to you that in my view it is all surmise.
The Attorney-General:
I think it must be.
Continued >
