British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 31
Final Arguments, cont.
The Commissioner:
But there have been a very large number of Wreck Enquiries, and I was wondering whether any wreck had been reported where the cause of the wreck was collision with an iceberg.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I am not aware of any Wreck Enquiry under such circumstances.
The Commissioner:
Then such an accident as this is of very rare occurrence, I should think.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes; and of course, my Lord, that is one of the circumstances to which I appeal, as showing that the practice that has always been pursued is a reasonable practice.
Mr. Cotter:
There have been heaps of collisions with icebergs, my Lord, but not wrecks.
The Attorney-General:
Yes, certainly.
Mr. Cotter:
The "Lake Champlain," only last year, was in collision; the "Arizona" was in collision, and several have been in collision.
The Commissioner:
Are not those cases reported anywhere?
Mr. Cotter:
The Board of Trade will have the facts, my Lord.
Sir Robert Finlay:
There was no loss of life in the "Lake Champlain."
Mr. Cotter:
No, but she was in collision; she struck an iceberg.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Did she do any damage?
Mr. Cotter:
Yes, she bent in her bows.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Still, the fact remains that there have been extremely few, and the absence of casualties is what the Table shows.
Mr. Cotter:
There is one case, if I may bring it to your Lordship's notice. The White Star Line steamer "Naronic" left Liverpool in 1903, and was never heard of again. All her crew went down with her.
The Commissioner:
Yes, but do we know anything about the cause of the wreck?
Sir Robert Finlay:
No, it may have been a derelict, or anything, or a leak. She was not a passenger ship.
I have finished Mr. Owen Jones's evidence, and I now pass on to the evidence of Captain Cannon's, the next Witness, on page 666. He says he has been 36 years going to sea and in the service of the Atlantic Transport Company for nearly 25 years, and in command for over 20, and during the whole of that time he has been sailing in the North Atlantic, and at Question 23719 he is asked: "London and New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And before that at times you were sailing in the North Atlantic? - (A.) Yes, quite a time. (Q.) In the course of your experience have you met icebergs and also field ice? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Have you ever met ice-fields on the Southern outward and homeward tracks which were agreed in 1898? - (A.) No, I have never seen field ice on the Southern track. (Q.) You have never seen field ice? - (A.) No. (Q.) Have you ever seen icebergs? - (A.) Yes, several. (Q.) On the outward track or the homeward track? - (A.) On both tracks. (Q.) At this time of year, we are speaking of in April? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Often? - (A.) No, not often; they do not get down as early as that, as a Rule."
Then at Question 23733: "There is only one further question I want to put to you. When you do sight an iceberg, do you reduce your speed or do you keep your speed? - (A.) I keep my speed. (Q.) What is the speed of the vessel? - (A.) Sixteen knots. (Q.) You keep your speed; that, of course, is, I suppose, in the day or it might be at night? - (A.) Both day and night. (Q.) The question I put to you, and you have answered, is when you have sighted an iceberg? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Then you have time, I suppose, from what you said, to get clear of the iceberg going at the speed at which your vessel then is? - (A.) I have never had any difficulty to clear when I have met ice ahead. (Q.) Does that mean that you see the ice some distance ahead? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) How far as a Rule? - (A.) Well. I have seen it over three miles and at less distances. (Q.) Are you speaking of the day or night? - (A.) At night. (Q.) Do you mean you would see it further in the daytime? - (A.) Yes, decidedly, in clear weather. (Q.) At night you have seen it at three miles and sometimes less? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And supposing that your look-out is properly kept and that the night is clear, is there any difficulty in your sighting an iceberg at sufficient distance to enable you to steer clear of it? - (A.) None whatever. (Q.) And supposing you received reports of icebergs in a latitude and longitude which you would expect to be crossing during the night, would you take any precaution as regards speed? - (A.) I should maintain my speed and keep an exceptionally sharp look-out until such time as I either had the ice-blink or some sight of ice ahead or in the track of the vessel. (Q.) What would be the exceptionally sharp look-out you would keep? - (A.) I mean with reference to everybody concerned by my cautioning them and giving my Officers instructions to inform the look-out to be on the alert. (Q.) Where is your look-out stationed? - (A.) In clear weather under ordinary circumstances in the crow's-nest. (Q.) How many do you carry there? - (A.) One. (Q.) Would that be the only man on the look-out in clear weather, except the Officers on the bridge? - (A.) That would be the only one. (Q.) And supposing you were sailing at night and had to keep this exceptionally sharp look-out which you have told us of because of having had ice reports, would you increase the number of men on the look-out or not? - (A.) No, not in clear weather. (Q.) Do you mean that you would go on steaming at the same speed with your man in the crow's-nest, and that is all? - (A.) That is all. (Q.) You do not put anybody apparently in the stem head? - (A.) No, not unless the weather becomes hazy or any difference to ordinary clear weather. (Q.) If the weather does become hazy it would be better to put a man on the stem head, I understand? - (A.) A man goes there immediately."
Then he is asked with reference to the "Titanic." Perhaps I had better read it. "(Q.) You have heard the distance at which it is said that this iceberg was first seen on the "Titanic." Do you know it? - (A.) I do not know it. (Q.) At any rate, not more than half a mile. The exact distance, I agree, is difficult to state, but not further than half a mile it is said to have been. (The Commissioner.) I should have said not so much. (The Attorney-General.) I am putting it at the extreme purposely. That is the extreme distance at which it is put. (To the Witness.) Suppose it was a little less than half a mile, can you account for the look-out man not having seen it if it was a clear night? - (A.) No. (Q.) And supposing it was a clear night, no haze, ought the look-out man in the crow's-nest to have seen it? - (A.) They should have done, I should imagine. (Q.) And if the iceberg is 60 to 80 feet high from the water-level, at what distance do you think it ought to have been seen? - (A.) My experience would be that you would see it at least two miles. (Q.) At least 2 miles? - (A.) Yes. (The Commissioner.) Then ought not the men on the bridge to see it? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) They ought to see it? - (A.) Yes."
Then your Lordship puts this question: "Have you seen black ice? - (A.) No, my Lord; I have not seen black ice, but the ice varies considerably in its appearance. (Q.) Have you seen many icebergs? - (A.) Yes, my Lord. (Q.) And you have never seen a black iceberg? - (A.) No." Then on page 630, my Lord, he speaks of the signals which were in use before Marconigrams were invented, and how they used to get signals about ice. "23793. When you got those signals did you slacken speed? - (A.) No. (Q.) Has the practice in that respect been the same the whole time you have known the trade? - (A.) Yes. (The Commissioner.) What is the speed of your vessel? - (A.) Sixteen knots. (Sir Robert Finlay.) That is her top speed? - (A.) Yes. (The Commissioner.) Now, assume you had under your command a vessel of 22 knots, would you slacken speed then? - (A.) Not in clear weather. (Sir Robert Finlay.) Now, would you describe to us the appearance of the icebergs in your experience, what do they look like as regards colour? - (A.) In day or night? (Q.) Well, take first, day? - (A.) In the day they appear as a white glistening mass, irregular in shape, white. (Q.) Then at night? - (A.) At night they throw off an effulgence that can be seen. I have seen the outlines of an iceberg by taking a bearing over seven miles. (Q.) It is what is called ice-blink? - (A.) Yes, it is an effulgence thrown off the berg or ice because the ice absorbs the light by day and throws it off at night. It would look like a large mass of luminous paint. That is the description one might venture upon. (Q.) It has taken in the light of the sun during the day and throws it off at night? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Anyhow, that is the effect you see? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Have you ever seen a black berg? - (A.) No. (Q.) In your experience are icebergs dark or black? - (A.) I have seen them much darker. Might I explain an experience of mine some years ago which will give you possibly an idea of the difference in the colour? (Q.) If you please? - (A.) When I was Chief Officer of our "Michigan" I saw an iceberg capsize in the daytime. What appeared prior to the iceberg capsizing as a white glistening mass, after the sea had subsided and the water run off the portion that was then exposed, was apparently dark blue. (Q.) Have you ever come across an iceberg that looked of that colour? You say you saw this one capsize? - (A.) Yes, in the daytime. (Q.) And then did you notice its colour? It was quite different from what it was before? - (A.) It was different in outline and different in colour. (Q.) Very well. Before it capsized it was white, I suppose, as you have described? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Then after that it was dark blue. Have you ever seen another iceberg of that dark colour? - (A.) No, only that one that capsized. (Q.) Where there is a swell or a little wind, does the water break at the foot of the berg? - (A.) Oh, yes. (Q.) Now, supposing you had a dark blue berg such as you have described, dark in colour, what would the effect of the water breaking at the foot of it with a swell or wind be as regards what you would see? - (A.) Well, it would show whiter at the base. (Q.) But in your experience the bergs have been white except with this one exception? - (A.) With the exception of this one, which I saw in daylight and noticed the difference in the colour; all of them have been discernible at nighttime, and, of course, in the day. (Q.) In addition to the look-out you have the Officers on the bridge? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And if you hear of ice do you tell them all to be on the look-out, to be on the alert? - (A.) Yes, the watch is mustered on the bridge, the Officer inspects them, and instructs them specially to keep their eyes open. (Q.) In your experience, is the practice of all as regards speed though ice has been reported the same that you have stated, to keep up speed? - (A.) Yes, to maintain speed until the ice is seen."
Then on the next page in the second column your Lordship puts this question: "Do you know the circumstances in which this collision is alleged to have taken place? - (A.) Only from what I have read in the Press. (Q.) Very well. Just assume this: A perfectly clear night, a perfectly flat sea, and no wind, and therefore nothing in the nature of surf round the edge of the iceberg. Would those circumstances, in your opinion, make the sighting of an iceberg difficult? - (A.) Yes, it would increase the difficulty of seeing it. (Q.) Are those circumstances very rare? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) A perfectly flat sea, no swell, no ripple? - (A.) They are extremely rare in the North Atlantic. (Q.) But still such circumstances are sometimes found? - (A.) Yes, my Lord. (Q.) How far do you suppose you would see an iceberg in those circumstances? - (A.) I should say a mile. (Q.) A vessel going 22 knots an hour sighting an iceberg a mile away can, I suppose, clear it? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Now can you explain to me why the "Titanic" did not clear? - (A.) It is possible for the iceberg to extend under the water a considerable distance from the portion seen above. (Q.) But that scarcely agrees with the facts here, because some ice fell on the deck? - (A.) That could easily occur with the concussion, my Lord. She was going at high speed; it may have crushed against the vessel's side and come up on deck. (The Attorney-General.) No, everybody says it fell on the deck. (The Commissioner.) I understand your suggestion to be that the part of the berg that they saw was not that which struck the vessel, but that it was part of the berg underneath the water that struck the ship? - (A.) I say that is possible." I think that must have been so from the facts as we now know them. "23843. Which extended some way from the berg which stood up? - (A.) Yes, it is quite possible. I have only read the newspaper reports. (Q.) Have you any other explanation? That does not satisfy me very well. Do you think a bad look-out would account for it? - (A.) I think they had a good look-out there, my Lord. (Q.) Never mind whether you think they had a good one or not? Would a bad look-out account for it? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Can you account for it in any other way - a bad look-out and going at the rate of 22 knots an hour? - (A.) They should have seen the berg in time to have cleared it. (Q.) You think they should? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) That means to say, taking you as a skilled man in navigation, you think there must have been bad navigation somewhere? - (A.) No, I do not think that, my Lord." Then your Lordship expresses a doubt as to the question. "23849. (The Attorney-General.) There is one question on what your Lordship has said. (To the Witness.) Before this accident to the "Titanic," had it ever occurred to you that on a specially calm night and a specially clear night it would be more difficult to detect an iceberg? - (A.) Oh, yes. (Q.) So that a skilled navigator would expect that it would be more difficult on a specially calm night and on a specially clear night? - (A.) Yes, it would be more difficult in the calm. You see, the sea causes an extra warning breaking against the berg." I think your Lordship realises that that Witness says expressly in some passages, and implies throughout, that the swell would break against the berg and would cause a white foam, and that, in the case of a black berg, would be specially noticeable. Then, my Lord, Mr. Ranson, of the "Baltic," gives evidence on pages 717 and 718. I do not think anything was put to him by the Attorney-General in chief on this subject. As my friend says, he was called on another point, but having been called Mr. Scanlan put this question to him on page 718: "24978. What is your individual practice if ice is reported? - (A.) How do you mean, clear weather or foggy weather? (Q.) At night? (The Commissioner.) At night, in clear weather? - (A.) We go full speed whether there is ice reported or not. (Q.) As far as you know, is that the practice of all liners on this course? - (A.) It is." Then at 24982 I ask him this question: "With regard to your speed, you know the practice in the Atlantic if the weather were clear and ice reported, do you keep up your speed? - (A.) We keep up our speed. (Q.) And is that your invariable practice? - (A.) It has always been my practice. (The Commissioner.) What is the speed of your boat? - (A.) Sixteen knots. (Sir Robert Finlay.) You said the speed of your boat, the 'Baltic' was 16 knots? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Have you been on other boats in the Atlantic? - (A.) - Yes. (Q.) Faster boats? - (A.) Yes, the 'Oceanic,' the 'Majestic,' and the 'Teutonic.'. (Q.) How many knots an hour would they make? - (A.) Twenty to twenty-one is the practice you have spoken of one which prevailed with regard to ships of that class as well as your boat, the 'Baltic'? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) You know, of course, the Atlantic well (A.) Yes. (Q.) Was that practice always pursued by all Masters of liners? - (A.) Yes, for the last 21 years, to my knowledge." Then, my Lord, Mr. Pritchard, the Captain of the "Mauretania," gives evidence at page 732.
The Commissioner:
Are you going back to Sir Ernest Shackleton's evidence?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, I will take him by himself, my Lord. Mr. Pritchard, at page 732, says he has been retired for two years, and has left the sea. His last command was the "Mauretania": "25172. I believe for 18 years you have commanded Cunard steamships sailing between Liverpool and New York? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Have you heard the evidence in this case with regard to the weather conditions which existed when the "Titanic" struck? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) You know them? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Now, what practice did you follow with regard to maintaining your full speed or reducing your speed, assuming similar conditions, and assuming you had information that there was a probability of your meeting ice on your course? - (A.) As long as the weather is clear I always go full speed. (Q.) You always have done so? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) What was the speed of the "Mauretania"? - (A.) 26 knots." Then at 25186 Mr. Scanlan asks: "If there was any difficulty at all in seeing would you reduce your speed? - (A.) Well, if it was hazy, yes. (Q.) If it was a flat calm and you expected ice - you were warned of ice and knew you would meet ice in the course of the night - would you double the look-out? - (A.) No, as long as the weather is clear." Then he is examined by myself. He states that he has been for 51 years at sea; has had a Master's certificate for 37 years, and he says that not only does he keep his course in clear weather, but he maintains full speed. "25219. And was that the universal practice in your experience? - (A.) Yes." That is the evidence of Captain Pritchard, of the "Mauretania."
Then Mr. Young, of the "City of Rome," of the Anchor Line, gives evidence at page 733. He also has left the sea. He says that he was travelling for 35 years across the Atlantic from Glasgow. "25224. Are you familiar with ice-fields and icebergs? - (A.) Quite. (Q.) Do you know the weather conditions which existed when the "Titanic" struck the iceberg? - (A.) I understand it was a dead calm. (Q.) It was a dead calm; it was a clear night? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) No sea? - (A.) No sea. (Q.) And no moon. Now, assuming those to be the conditions, and assuming that you had had information that there was a probability that you might be travelling through a region of the sea at night where you might meet icebergs, would you or would you not reduce the speed of your vessel? - (A.) No, Sir. (Q.) What was the fastest vessel you ever commanded? - (A.) The "City of Rome" - 17 knots. (Q.) One other matter. With regard to look-out at night, when you have been informed that you may be passing icebergs, what provision did you make for your look-out under such circumstances? - (A.) The same as other times, as long as it was clear - two men in the crow's-nest. (Q.) You had two men in the crow's-nest? - (A.) Yes, I had two men in the crow's-nest. (Q.) And nobody on the stem head? - (A.) Not when it is perfectly clear." Then at 25233 I asked Captain Young: "If ice were reported; would you keep your course, as well as maintain your speed, in clear weather? - (A.) I should keep my course and maintain my speed. (Q.) How many years were you in the New York trade, crossing the Atlantic? - (A.) About 37 years." Then in consequence of a suggestion from your Lordship, I put this: "Suppose you were told there was field ice, would your practice be the same, or different? - (A.) Just the same. (Q.) Has that been the universal practice in the trade as long as you have known it? - (A.) As far as I know, yes. (Q.) All ships have done so? - (A.) I think so."
Then, my Lord, there is a question a little further down that perhaps I ought to read with regard to the temperature. There is a curious mistake in the printing here - it is a printer's error at Question 25242. That question should not appear in Mr. Hugh Young's evidence; it is the evidence of Mr. Stewart, the next Witness. Reading the evidence, I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw the following questions, and then it turned out that Mr. Stewart's name ought to have been printed above Question 25242. It is a mere misprint.
The Commissioner:
Yes, I noticed that. The name of Stewart comes immediately before 25242.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes. He had commanded the "Empress of Britain." He had been in the Beaver Line all the time it ran, 35 years; had been in the North Atlantic trade for 38 years; continued in the Canadian Pacific when the Beaver Line was taken over by them he continued with the Canadian Pacific for three years until he retired. The last vessel he commanded was the 'Empress of Britain.' "The 'Empress of Britain' was the fastest ship I ever commanded - 18 knots." "25252. Do you know the weather conditions which existed when the "Titanic" struck? - (A.) I have read about them in the newspapers. (Q.) See you have them accurate. It was a clear night, no moon, no swell, no sea, and stars? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Given those conditions, and that you had command of a ship, and were given information that you might meet ice, and that your course would take you through the place where you might meet ice, and meet it at night, would you reduce your speed? - (A.) No, not as long as it was clear. (Q.) Not as long as it was clear? - (A.) No. (Q.) I am going upon the assumption that you might meet icebergs - you would not reduce your speed? - (A.) No. (Q.) If you had information that you might meet field ice, would you still maintain your speed? - (A.) Until I saw it, and then I should do what I thought proper. Then he says that in clear weather he has the ordinary look-out. Then over the page, at page 734, this occurs. "25260. Would you maintain your course as well as your speed if ice were reported? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And has that been the invariable practice in the North Atlantic? - (A.) It was with me. (Q.) And as far as you know, with others? - (A.) As far as I know, with others. (Q.) Did the "Empress of Britain" carry many passengers? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) First, second and third? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) What was her tonnage, about? - (A.) I could not tell you now, she was a large ship. (Q.) She was a big boat? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Of 18 knots? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) How many people did she carry, about? - (A.) Oh, I suppose about 2,000 altogether."
Then, my Lord, there is the evidence of Mr. Fairfull, of the s.s. "Tunisian," of the Allan Line also, on page 734. For 21 years he was sailing in command of the Allan Line steamships across the Atlantic. He had heard the evidence of the last two gentlemen: "25272. Is your practice in accordance with theirs? - (A.) All except that when we get to the ice track in an Allan steamer, besides having a look-out in the crow's-nest, we put a man on the stem head at night." Then, my Lord, you say you did not hear what he said, and the Witness repeats the answer: "25274. Whether it is clear or not? - (A.) Yes." Then he is examined by me. He was crossing the Atlantic on the 14th April in the "Tunisian"; he was there and had ice reports. I do not think his evidence came to anything. Then there is the evidence of Mr. Braes, also of the Allan Line, at the bottom of the same page, page 734. He agrees with the evidence of the last four Witnesses; his practice is just the same: "25287. Is your practice when you may be meeting ice at night similar to their practice? - (A.) Just the same. I never slowed down so long as the weather was clear." "25290. In your experience is that the universal practice in the Atlantic? - (A.) I never knew any other practice."
Then, my Lord, there is the evidence of Mr. Apfeld, the Flemish gentleman of the Red Star Line, who came from Antwerp, on page 746, Question 25575. He is the Marine Superintendent of the Red Star Line, a Belgian line of steamships; he lives in Belgium; his vessels sail from Antwerp to New York, Philadelphia, Boston and Baltimore, and they carry passengers and mails. He has been for 39 years at sea and five years as Marine Superintendent. He has been with the Red Star Line for 32 years. "25583. When you have been navigating in the region of ice, have you changed your course or speed? - (A.) Never. I slow her down in the case of fog or thick weather, otherwise not. (Q.) Is that the case, although ice has been actually reported to you? - (A.) I would not slow her down. (Q.) Have you examined the deck logbooks and the engine logbooks of the steamers of your line running the Atlantic passage during April last? - (A.) I have." Then he gives the names of the six vessels: "25587. Do these logbooks show whether those vessels passed ice? - (A.) Some of them. (Q.) Which of them? Can you remember the 'Lapland' and the 'Manitou'? - (A.) The 'Lapland,' the 'Finland,' and the 'Manitou,' and I believe the 'Zeeland.' (Q.) They all passed ice? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Where were they going to - to New York? - (A.) They were going to New York, except the, 'Manitou' said the 'Menominee,' which were going to Boston. (Q.) Did they change their course or their speed? - (A.) Absolutely not. The 'Manitou' slowed down after she entered the field ice. She went into field ice at full speed for about an hour, and then the field ice became thick, heavy lumps amongst it, and her Captain slowed her down for about an hour. He reduced speed for fear of damaging the propeller."
The Commissioner:
Then there is another man named Tride?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
You need not trouble about him.
Sir Robert Finlay:
He is a Captain in the Red Star Line. My Lord, I say that that makes a body of evidence of extraordinary clearness and strength, and I further say there is absolutely no contradiction. I say that with reference to the evidence to which I am now coming of Sir Ernest Shackleton. Sir Ernest Shackleton's experience has, of course, been an experience of quite a different nature. My Lord, I ought also to have called attention before passing from these Witnesses - it was an accidental omission - to the Table which was drawn up at your Lordship's request, summarising the results with reference to the vessels which were crossing the Atlantic at this time in this neighbourhood.
The Attorney-General:
I presume you are also going to call attention to Captain Rostron's evidence on the point?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Certainly. This is a typewritten document. I had better run through the table: "Californian" - already dealt with by Enquiry. "Antillian" - no ice. I need not read what is written under the head "Instructions to Commanders of Vessels" and "Ship and Engineers Logbooks." Then there is the Anchor Line: "No vessels in actual vicinity, but 'Caledonia' was warned by wireless of field ice, course altered to Southward to avoid it. Sighted ice 9th April. Date, between April 6th and 9th." Then under the head of "Instructions to Commanders of Vessels" there appears: "Course to be altered on ice being seen or reported. In the event of fog, speed to be reduced. No book of Instructions and Regulations sent." Then there is the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, Canadian route: "Mount Temple" - evidence already produced in Enquiry.
"'Montrose' - log shows vessel maintained speed when in sight of and passing ice and later slowed down on account of thick weather. The attached letter from the Canadian Pacific Railway suggests that stoppages and reductions in speed on account of ice are recorded, but this is not borne out by the logbook." Then under the heading of "Instructions to Commanders of Vessels": "If weather thick or unfavourable, speed to be reduced. Safety of passengers and cargo is the first consideration." Then there is the Allan Line, Canadian Route, "Parisian," received wireless message re presence of ice, which was also sighted. Weather clear, so speed not reduced. Course altered when ice sighted. "Carthaginian" received message re presence of ice, but none seen. This vessel took a Southerly course, but no record to show reason for this. Then under the heading of "Instructions to Commanders of Vessels." "Field ice not to be entered, if possible to avoid it; but, if entered, speed to be reduced. The vessel's course and speed are secondary considerations compared with the safety of the ship." Then the Cunard Line. "Copies of wireless messages were sent to Secretary, General Post Office, on the 2nd May. "'Carmania' encountered field ice during foggy weather; vessel stopped. When fog lifted vessel proceeded slowly, passing field ice. 'Mauretania,' - On approaching ice region deviated to the Southward; this vessel sighted the 'Baltic' during the forenoon of the 15th April and received news of the 'Titanic' disaster before altering course. 'Anconia' - No ice sighted." The instructions to commanders are similar to those in other cases: Captains to use their discretion, but safety of the ship and passengers is the first and only consideration." There are the same instructions in the case of Furness, Withy and Co., which had no vessels in the vicinity on this occasion. The White Star Line I need not deal with, as Mr. Sanderson has been called. Then with regard to the Dominion Line, Captain Jones of the "Canada" has been called, so that is answered, and in the case of the Canadian Northern Steamship Company no reply has been received. The Hamburg-Amerika Line - "Have sent telegram (20th June) as follows: Referring your letter (6th June), we will answer your questions Saturday after arrival 'President Lincoln.' Other informations not possible before arrival of 'Prince Adalbert,' 28th June."
The Commissioner:
What am I to do about that?
Sir Robert Finlay:
We have not got it, my Lord. If we get it, of course it will be handed to your Lordship.
The Commissioner:
If it comes I should like to see it.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Certainly, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
You do not object, Mr. Attorney.
The Attorney-General:
Oh, no. As soon as we get it your Lordship shall have it. We have been collecting it.
Sir Robert Finlay:
The Norddeutscher Lloyd say: "Steamers were going full speed as long as the weather kept clear. The s.s. 'Bremen' reduced to 8 knots on the 20th April from 2.20 to 4.20 a.m. in the ice region because it was rainy weather." There is a letter from the Norddeutscher Lloyd Company. It is dated the 18th June, my Lord, and is about five pages from the end of the bundle.
The Commissioner:
Is this letter from the Norddeutscher in German?
The Attorney-General:
I should think it was in German by the look of it.
The Commissioner:
So I think. The date is in German.
Sir Robert Finlay:
It has been translated.
The Commissioner:
I should like to see the letter itself.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I do not think the date being in German is a necessary indication that the letter was in German. You constantly get a letter from a German firm with the date in German and the letter itself in English.
The Commissioner:
I want to see the original letter, if I can, if it is in German.
The Attorney-General:
We will send and see, my Lord. We have not got it here.
The Commissioner:
It says here, "Our steamers were going full speed." I expect if you read the German you will find that it really means, "Our steamers do go at full speed."
The Attorney-General:
I should think that is very likely, but we will send for the letter.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I rather think that this is the letter as sent.
Continued >
