Senator FLETCHER.
You say you expected in the Titanic the same speed that the Olympic had, but you did not mention that speed.
Mr. ISMAY.
I should call the Olympic a good 22-knot ship. She can do better under very favorable circumstances. I think she can work up to 22 1/2 or perhaps 22 3/4 as a maximum.
Senator FLETCHER.
At the time of the collision of the Olympic was she in charge of a compulsory pilot?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes, sir; she was in the hands of a compulsory pilot.
Senator FLETCHER.
Do you know how far the double bottom of the Titanic extended?
Mr. ISMAY.
How far up the side of the ship?
Senator FLETCHER.
Yes.
Mr. ISMAY.
I should think the whole of the bottom, sir; the whole width of the ship.
Senator FLETCHER.
This contact with the iceberg must have been above the double bottom, must it not?
Mr. ISMAY.
My impression is that the bilge of the ship was ripped out by the iceberg; simply torn right along.
Senator FLETCHER.
The bilge is above the double bottom?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes.
Senator FLETCHER.
Did you see the ship after you left her in the collapsible boat?
Mr. ISMAY.
I saw her once.
Senator FLETCHER.
What was her position then?
Mr. ISMAY.
She was very much down by the head; her starboard light was just about level with the water.
Senator FLETCHER.
Did she break in two, so far as you could see?
Mr. ISMAY.
I never looked around again.
Senator FLETCHER.
Were there any women and children in the vicinity of the collapsible boat when you got in?
Mr. ISMAY.
None, sir.
Senator FLETCHER.
How far did you have to lower the collapsible boat from the boat deck to the water?
Mr. ISMAY.
It was very difficult to judge, because we had considerable difficulty in getting our boat down at all.
Senator FLETCHER.
You did not have enough men?
Mr. ISMAY.
The ship had quite a list to port. Consequently this canvas boat, this collapsible boat, was getting hung up on the outside of the ship, and she had to rub right along her, and we had to try to shove her out, and we had to get the women to help to shove to get her clear of the ship. The ship had listed over that way.
Senator FLETCHER.
Did the tackle work all right?
Mr. ISMAY.
Absolutely.
Senator FLETCHER.
Did you have enough help from the crew of the Titanic?
Mr. ISMAY.
Oh, yes; they lowered the boat away.
Senator FLETCHER.
How many men were in the boat?
Mr. ISMAY.
Three - four. We found four Chinamen stowed away under the thwarts after we got away. I think they were Filipinos, perhaps. There were four of them.
Senator FLETCHER.
Were those oarsmen?
Mr. ISMAY.
I believe one was a cook, another was the butcher, and another was the quartermaster.
Senator FLETCHER.
Did you handle the oars?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes, sir; I was rowing from the time we got into the boat until we got out, practically.
Senator FLETCHER.
You had experience in handling oars?
Mr. ISMAY.
Oh, yes, sir.
Senator FLETCHER.
You did not have any more men than you needed to take care of the boat?
Mr. ISMAY.
No.
Senator FLETCHER.
Were you under the care of a physician and under treatment after arriving on the Carpathia?
Mr. ISMAY.
I was, more or less; yes. He took care of me. The captain sent down and offered me the use of his room on board the Carpathia.
Senator FLETCHER.
What was the name of the surgeon of the Carpathia?
Mr. ISMAY.
I really forget his name. I wrote to him before I left the ship. I forget what his name was. McKee, was it?
Senator FLETCHER.
Mr. Carter, of Philadelphia, was in that collapsible boat also, was he not?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes, sir; he was.
Senator FLETCHER.
Were there any more men you recall now?
Mr. ISMAY.
No, sir.
Senator FLETCHER.
That is all.
Senator PERKINS.
I will ask one question, if you please.
You have stated that the Titanic's displacement was 45,000 tons?
Mr. ISMAY.
That was her gross tonnage, I think.
Senator PERKINS.
Do you know what her weight of cargo was, including coal?
Mr. ISMAY.
No, sir; I could not tell you that.
Senator PERKINS.
Approximately? Was she loaded down to the plimsoll mark?
Mr. ISMAY.
Leaving Southampton?
Senator PERKINS.
Yes.
Mr. ISMAY.
No, we only had 6,000 tons of coal leaving Southampton.
Senator PERKINS.
And how much of cargo?
Mr. ISMAY.
I do not remember. We might have had eight or nine hundred tons of cargo weight.
Senator PERKINS.
What cargo would it require to load her down to the plimsoll mark?
Mr. ISMAY.
I could not tell you that. She could carry over 9,500 tons of coal and then not be down to the plimsoll mark.
Senator PERKINS.
She had about 6,000 tons of coal?
Mr. ISMAY.
She had about 6,000 tons of coal leaving Southampton.
Senator PERKINS.
Sufficient to make the voyage to New York and return to Southampton?
Mr. ISMAY.
No; but sufficient coal to enable her to reach New York, with about two days spare consumption.
Senator PERKINS.
What is her daily consumption?
Mr. ISMAY.
At full speed?
Senator PERKINS.
Ordinary speed.
Mr. ISMAY.
At 70 revolutions?
Senator PERKINS.
Yes.
Mr. ISMAY.
I think perhaps 620 to 640 tons.
Senator PERKINS.
In increases in what ratio up to 75 revolutions?
Mr. ISMAY.
I could not tell you. On full speed she burns about 820 tons.
Senator PERKINS.
That is all.
Senator BURTON.
Did you have any conversation with a passenger on the Titanic about slackening or increasing speed when you heard of the ice?
Mr. ISMAY.
No, sir; not that I have any recollection of. I presume you refer to what Mrs. Ryerson said. I testified in New York, the day after we arrived, that it was our intention on Monday or Tuesday, assuming the weather conditions to suit, and everything was working satisfactorily down below, to probably run the ship for about four or six hours full speed to see what she could do.
Senator PERKINS.
You did not have any conversation on that Sunday about increasing the speed, did you?
Mr. ISMAY.
Not in regard to increasing the speed going through the ice, sir.
Senator BURTON.
That is all.
Senator SMITH.
Did you have any talk with Capt. Rostron from the time you went on board the Carpathia was that he came to me and told me he had a Marconi message from Capt. Haddock to say that he was coming to him. At that time the Carpathia was bound for New York. The captain of the Carpathia came to the conclusion there was no use in the Olympic coming to the Carpathia, because he could render absolutely no assistance, and he thought it was very undesirable that the unfortunate passengers from the Titanic should see her sister ship so soon afterwards. That is the only conversation I had with the captain, except that he asked me to send a message to our office in New York to have the tug boats and some White Star sailors at quarantine to relieve him of those boats about his deck.
Senator BURTON.
But you yourself did not attempt to put any embargo upon news of any kind while you were on board the Carpathia?
Mr. ISMAY.
Absolutely none, sir; and I asked for no preferential treatment for any messages that I sent. I do not know that any was given.
Senator SMITH.
You spoke of 820 tons as being the amount of coal required to get the maximum speed of the ship. Is that 820 tons per 24 hours?
Mr. ISMAY.
It would be 820 tons on the day. It would all depend on whether you were going east or west. If you are going west, your day is 24 hours, and if you are going east your day is 23 hours - 23 hours and some minutes.
Senator SMITH.
It would include a day?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
That is, the day's consumption, the maximum?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes, sir; I think it is a day.
Senator SMITH.
From noon to noon?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes, sir; from noon to noon. I will be very glad to give you a copy of the Olympic's engine room log if you would like to see it and to have it.
Senator SMITH.
Have we got it?
Mr. ISMAY.
I hope not.
Senator SMITH.
Have you got it?
Mr. ISMAY.
Not here, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I would like very much to have it as part of our record.
Mr. ISMAY.
This is information we would not want to have sent out broadcast. We have competitors in the trade, and any information we would give to you we would like to have treated with consideration.
Senator SMITH.
This, however, will become public, if you give it to us.
Mr. ISMAY.
If you ask me for it, I must give it to you.
Senator SMITH.
I do not want to ask for anything -
Mr. ISMAY. (interrupting)
I think those gentlemen behind you will know what it is.
Senator SMITH.
I do not want to ask for anything that is private property, but if you deem it proper that we should have it, and that kind of information can be made public, in view of what will probably be said before the committee regarding the speed of this ship, I think perhaps it might become important.
Mr. ISMAY.
I do not know that there is anything in it. It you want a copy of the log, we will give it to you and you can put it in your record.
Senator SMITH.
I neglected to ask whether you were on board the Titanic with a view of improving the ship in her technical details or with a view of improving her passenger conveniences?
Mr. ISMAY.
It would be more the passenger conveniences. My practice has always been, during a voyage, to make notes in regard to anything that occurred to me on the voyage, and when I got back to Liverpool to take the matter up with our associates and with our marine superintendents and with our superintendent of engineers, and discuss the whole matter with them.
Senator SMITH.
The reason I asked that question is because I asked you in New York if you were officially aboard the Titanic, and you said no.
Mr. ISMAY.
No; I was not officially aboard.
Senator SMITH.
You said that you made the journey as a matter of personal convenience to yourself?
Mr. ISMAY.
Simply with the idea of looking around and seeing if there was anything which suggested itself to my mind which would be an improvement in any future ship we built.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether the Cunard Line had a mail contract with the British Government?
Mr. ISMAY.
I do not quite know what their arrangement is. Of course great changes were made between the British Government and the Cunard Co. at the time of the formation of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator SMITH.
I think that is all.
Senator FLETCHER.
What became of the lifeboats of the Titanic?
Mr. ISMAY.
I think they are in New York, sir. They were put out at the end of one of the White Star docks and are probably there now, so far as I know.
Senator FLETCHER.
Were all of them saved except the one that sank?
Mr. ISMAY.
There are 13 of them there now.
Senator FLETCHER.
The captain of the Carpathia let some of them go adrift?
Mr. ISMAY.
I think he did. I think his decks were pretty well lumbered up when he got them all on board, because he had no idea of the trouble he was going to have.
Senator NEWLANDS.
How many compartments were there in this ship, the Titanic?
Mr. ISMAY.
I think about 16. I am not sure.
Senator NEWLANDS.
You say the ship was so designed that if two of those compartments were filled with water the ship would float?
Mr. ISMAY.
Two of the largest.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Where were the largest?
Mr. ISMAY.
Amidships, I think.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Was it your idea that either of these compartments was affected by this accident?
Mr. ISMAY.
I do not think that anybody can state exactly what did happen to her. My own impression is that the bilge of the ship was ripped out.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Does that include these two large compartments?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes; I think it ripped the ship up, right along the side.
Senator NEWLANDS.
You referred to pumps. Those pumps were to be used, in case any of these compartments had water in them, for clearing any of those compartments?
Mr. ISMAY.
For clearing them of water; yes.
Senator NEWLANDS.
For clearing them of water in case there was a leakage?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes; or in case of accident.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Or in case of accident?
Mr. ISMAY.
Yes.
Senator NEWLANDS.
You say that one of the officers said he thought you could keep the ship afloat by the use of the pumps? The idea was that these pumps would keep these compartments, or some of them, relieved of water?
Mr. ISMAY.
That they would keep the water in check.
Senator NEWLANDS.
That they would keep the water in check. The pumps were used, were they not?
Mr. ISMAY.
So far as I know. They were put on at once, I think.
Senator NEWLANDS.
Did any officers of the ship tell you that they were being used?
Mr. ISMAY.
No; but Mr. Bell told me they hoped they could keep the water in check with the pumps.
Senator NEWLANDS.
That is all.
Senator SMITH.
Senator Bourne was anxious to interrogate you, Mr. Ismay, but he has not been able to be present this morning. If possible, I wish you would attend the afternoon session, and we will now take an early adjournment, so that Senator Bourne may then have the privilege of questioning you.
Mr. ISMAY.
I am entirely at your disposal, sir.
(Witness Excused.)
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