Senator SMITH.
About how fast was that schooner moving?
Mr. MOORE.
He could not have been moving very fast.
Senator SMITH.
How fast? Just give your best judgment.
Mr. MOORE.
I dare say she would be making a couple of knots an hour. Some time after that the breeze sprang up until we had quite a fresh breeze.
Senator SMITH.
This schooner came from the direction of the Titanic's position?
Mr. MOORE.
Fairly well, sir. You see, I was going north 65º east, and he angled a bit to the south, because if he had come directly from the other, of course, he would have shown me two lights, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What I am trying to get at is this: One or two of the ship's officers of the Titanic say that after the collision with the iceberg they used the Morse signals and rockets for the purpose of attracting help, and that while they were using these rockets, and displaying the Morse signals they saw lights ahead, or saw lights, that could not have been over 5 miles from the Titanic. What I am seeking to develop is the question as to what light that was they saw.
Mr. MOORE.
Well, it may have been the light of the tramp steamer that was ahead of us, because when I turned there was a steamer on my port bow.
Senator SMITH.
Going in the same direction?
Mr. MOORE.
Almost in the same direction. As he went ahead, he gradually crossed our bow until he got on the starboard bow, sir -
Senator SMITH.
Did you see that ship yourself?
Mr. MOORE.
I saw it myself. I was on the bridge all the time.
Senator SMITH.
Did you communicate with it by wireless?
Mr. MOORE.
I do not think he had any wireless; I am sure he had no wireless, because in the daylight I was close to him.
Senator SMITH.
How large a vessel was it?
Mr. MOORE.
I should say a ship of about 4,000 or 5,000 tons.
Senator SMITH.
How large a vessel is the Mount Temple, which you command?
Mr. MOORE.
Six thousand six hundred and sixty-one tons register.
Senator SMITH.
And the Mount Temple is one of the fleet of the Canadian Pacific Railway?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you come close enough to that ship, to which you have just referred to determine what she was?
Mr. MOORE.
As to her name, sir?
Senator SMITH.
Her name?
Mr. MOORE.
No; I did not get her name.
Senator SMITH.
Or her character?
Mr. MOORE.
I think she was a foreign ship, sir. She was not English. I do not think she was English, because she did not show her ensign.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know the vessel Helig Olav?
Mr. MOORE.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you seen that vessel since you saw her early that morning - Monday?
Mr. MOORE.
I saw her until after 9 o'-clock, sir.
Senator SMITH.
But had no communication with her?
Mr. MOORE.
Had no communication with her. We were trying to pick him out in the signal book, and we were trying to signal with him, because I think he was under the impression that I was going to the eastward, that I was bound to the eastward, and I think when I turned back after we both stopped, when we found the ice too heavy, he followed me, because when I turned around, after finding the ice too heavy to the southward, after I went to the southward later on in the morning, when it got daylight, and I went down to where he was, thinking he perhaps had gotten into a thin spot, when I got there he had stopped, he had found the ice too heavy. I went a little farther, and I turned around because it was getting far too heavy to put the ship through. But that would be about 5, or perhaps half past 5, in the morning, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You have no means of determining what the name of that vessel is, or what the name of the commander is?
Mr. MOORE.
I had no communication with him whatever, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were you close enough to see whether her funnel was of any special color?
Mr. MOORE.
If I can remember rightly it was black, with some device in a band near the top.
Senator SMITH.
You have never seen her since that night?
Mr. MOORE.
I have not seen her since the morning I saw her, 9 o'clock in the morning, because she followed me right around this ice pack, you know, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you get any nearer the Titanic's position given you in the wireless C. Q. D. message than the point you have just mentioned?
Mr. MOORE.
At 3.25 I stopped the engines, and then went slowly to avoid the ice, because it was too dark to proceed full speed on account of the ice.
Senator SMITH.
Did you reach the Titanic's position?
Mr. MOORE.
I reached the Titanic's position. I reckon I was very close to that position, either that position or very close to it, at 4.30 in the morning, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was there any other vessel there at that time?
Mr. MOORE.
None except the tramp, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Except the tramp that cut across -
Mr. MOORE.
That cut across my bow. I could see him then. He was a little to the southward of me, but ahead of me, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When you were at that point what did you do and what did you see?
Mr. MOORE.
I saw a large ice pack right to the east of me, sir; right in my track-right in my course.
Senator SMITH.
How large?
Mr. MOORE.
In consulting my officers as to the breadth of this, one said it was 5 miles and another said it was 6 miles.
Senator SMITH.
How wide was it?
Mr. MOORE.
That was the width of it.
Senator SMITH.
How long was it?
Mr. MOORE.
Of course it extended as far as the eye could reach, north and south, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Twenty miles or more?
Mr. MOORE.
I should say 20 miles, perhaps more than that. It was field ice and bergs.
Senator SMITH.
Bergs also?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes; bergs interspersed in the pack, sir, and boulders.
Senator SMITH.
How many bergs were there?
Mr. MOORE.
I should say, altogether, there must have been between 40 and 50 I counted that morning.
Senator SMITH.
And varying in size?
Mr. MOORE.
Varying in size.
Senator SMITH.
From what?
Mr. MOORE.
Some were very long and square, but very low in the water. Others were high and of various shapes.
Senator SMITH.
How high was the highest - the largest one?
Mr. MOORE.
I should say fully 200 feet high, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know the height of the Titanic from the water's edge?
Mr. MOORE.
On my boat, when she is light, it is about 50 feet from the water line to my bridge.
Senator SMITH.
The Titanic, according to the testimony, was 70 feet from the water line; and you say this largest iceberg that you saw was 200 feet above the water line?
Mr. MOORE.
About that, I should think, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How far were they from you?
Mr. MOORE.
We got near to several of them, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How near?
Mr. MOORE.
Not more than a mile or so off, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you become apprehensive when they got that close?
Mr. MOORE.
Not a mile, sir; oh, no.
Senator SMITH.
You could see farther away than a mile?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes. In some cases you may get close to them; in others they have long spurs running underneath the water. In daytime in clear water you can see the spurs, because they show quite green under the water. Of course, my orders to my officers are to give them a wide berth; not take any chances whatever.
Senator SMITH.
The night that you doubled your lockout did you use glasses in the crow's nest or have a searchlight, or anything of that kind?
Mr. MOORE.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you ever use glasses in the crow's nest?
Mr. MOORE.
Never, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You use them on the bridge?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir. Every officer has his own glasses, and then the ship provides glasses besides.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever been in the north Atlantic on a vessel equipped with searchlights?
Mr. MOORE.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I should like your judgment as to whether or not searchlights in darkness and in fog would prove an advantage in detecting icebergs in your path?
Mr. MOORE.
In fog they are utterly useless, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And in clear weather?
Mr. MOORE.
If you had a very powerful projector it might be of some use, but in fog it would be just like throwing that light on a blank wall.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever been aboard a British battleship or any ship of the British Navy?
Mr. MOORE.
Not for many years, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever been aboard any ship that found a buoy with a searchlight?
Mr. MOORE.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know if it is not customary in tortuous channels to search out objects, like buoys marking the course in the river or sea, with searchlights?
Mr. MOORE.
I have never had any experience. Of course, I know they use the searchlight in the Suez Canal.
Senator SMITH.
How do you know it?
Mr. MOORE.
From conversations with others, and I have heard so from my officers who have been. through the Suez Canal.
Senator SMITH.
They rely on the searchlight to quite a considerable extent in going through the Suez Canal, do they not?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes; but the ships are going very slowly, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You know the British naval vessels are equipped with searchlights?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes; I have seen them very often when I have been going up the English Channel. I have seen them very often using those, sir.
I should say a very powerful light would be of use in an ice pack, sir, provided there was no fog.
Senator SMITH.
I want to go back to the scene of the Titanic collision for a moment. When you arrived at the Titanic's position, it was along after 4 in the morning?
Mr. MOORE.
half-past 4, sir; that is, I reckoned we were at that position at half-past 4, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Monday morning?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
After the wreck?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did you see there, if anything?
Mr. MOORE.
I saw nothing whatever, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Any wreckage from the Titanic?
Mr. MOORE.
I saw nothing; but I saw this tramp steamer, sir.
Senator SMITH.
No wreckage?
Mr. MOORE.
Nothing whatever, sir, in the way of wreckage.
Senator SMITH.
Any floating corpses?
Mr. MOORE.
Nothing at all, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Any abandoned lifeboats?
Mr. MOORE.
Nothing whatever, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Any floating bodies?
Mr. MOORE.
Nothing whatever, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long did you stay in that position?
Mr. MOORE.
We searched around to see if there was a clear place we could go through, because I feared the ice was too heavy for me to push through it. Of course, I reckoned I was somewhere near, if not at, the Titanic's position that he gave me, which afterwards proved correct, when I got observations in the morning, sir. I searched for a passage to get through this pack, because I realized that the Titanic could not have been through that pack of ice, sir. I steered away to the south-southeast true, because I thought the ice appeared thinner down there, sir. When I got down, I got within about a mile or so of this other ship, which had already stopped, finding the ice was too strong for it to go through.
Senator SMITH.
What did you do after discovering that there was no wreckage nor any service you could render?
Mr. MOORE.
When I found the ice was too heavy, I stopped there and just turned around - slowed down and stopped her - and searched for a passage, and I could not see any passage whatever, sir. I had a man pulled up to the masthead in a bowline, right to the foretopmast head, and I had the chief officer at the mainmast head, and he could not see any line through the ice at all that I could go through.
Senator SMITH.
Some passengers on your vessel, Sunday night about midnight, claim to have seen these rockets from the decks of the Titanic. Have you heard anything about that?
Mr. MOORE.
I have read it in the papers, sir; but as a matter of fact, I do not believe there was a passenger on deck at 12 o'clock at night. I am positive, because they would not know anything at all about this, and you may be sure that they would be in their beds. I know the steward tells me there was nobody on deck; that is, the night watchman at the aft end. At the forward end there was nobody on deck. The man in what we call the permanent steerage that passes under the bridge deck - we have a permanent steerage there, and the other, of course, is a portable one we can take down - and nobody saw a passenger on deck, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You were on the bridge, immediately following the warning?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir; I was on the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
And the danger call?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you make an effort to see this vessel or its lights or signals?
Mr. MOORE.
Oh, yes, sir; I had all the officers on deck as soon as ever we turned around. I sent down and got all the officers and the crew out and we commenced to swing the boats out.
Senator SMITH.
And got ready to give assistance?
Mr. MOORE.
We had the gangway ready for lowering, and we had ladders ready to put over the side; we had ropes with riggings in the ends to lower over; we had lifeboats and lifebelts and everybody was on hand and everything was all made ready along the deck.
Senator SMITH.
How many lifeboats did you have?
Mr. MOORE.
Twenty, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What was the passenger capacity of your vessel?
Mr. MOORE.
We could accommodate about 1,000 in the lifeboats.
Senator SMITH.
About 1,000 in the lifeboats?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many could you accommodate in the Mount Temple, comfortably?
Mr. MOORE.
With the 20 boats, sir; we reckoned we could accommodate 1,000 people in them.
Senator SMITH.
I guess we do not understand each other. I want to know if you can tell me what the passenger capacity of the Mount Temple is? How many people is she arranged to accommodate?
Mr. MOORE.
There is no permanent arrangement -
Senator SMITH. (interposing)
Is it a passenger boat?
Mr. MOORE.
She is really not what you call a passenger boat. We are an immigrant ship. We simply have passenger accommodations permanently for about 160 passengers, and 6 in the second cabin.
Senator SMITH.
How many in the second cabin?
Mr. MOORE.
Six. We have two rooms.
Senator SMITH.
Two rooms in the second cabin?
Mr. MOORE.
That is our saloon.
Senator SMITH.
And accommodations for about 160 passengers?
Mr. MOORE.
160 permanent, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And you carry 20 lifeboats?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Besides the lifebelts?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were those lifeboats the standard lifeboats?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Or were they collapsible?
Mr. MOORE.
There were only two collapsible boats, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any emergency boats?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many?
Mr. MOORE.
There are four on the lower deck.
Senator SMITH.
Besides those 20?
Mr. MOORE.
Those are included in the 20.
Senator SMITH.
And two collapsibles?
Mr. MOORE.
Two collapsibles.
Senator SMITH.
And, altogether your emergency boats, collapsibles, and lifeboats numbered 20?
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How did you happen to have just 20?
Mr. MOORE.
There are eight pairs of davits on each side. We had two aft inside of the others - inside of the ones under the davits - and there were two collapsible boats on the boat deck amidships.
Senator SMITH.
My question was directed to whether or not the 20 lifeboats you carried on the Mount Temple, with a passenger capacity of 160 people, were in accordance with the regulations of the British Board of Trade?
Mr. MOORE.
Oh, yes, sir; we had more than our requirements from the British Board of Trade - that is, for the tonnage of the ship.
Senator SMITH.
So, if any accident had happened to your vessel, such as happened to the Titanic, on a clear, calm night, with no sea, you had ample accommodations -
Mr. MOORE.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
One moment, please. You had ample accommodations on the Mount Temple for your passengers, had you?
Mr. MOORE.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How many would those lifeboats hold?
Mr. MOORE.
About 50. I am giving on the permanent accommodations, sir. We had 1,461 steerage passengers.
Senator SMITH.
I was coming to the steerage, and I was coming to the crew.
Mr. MOORE.
Yes, sir.