4759. When the Carpathia was about 5 miles away did you row toward her?
- No; I waited to make certain it was a steamer, until I could see both masthead lights.
4760. You knew it was an object?
- Yes; but I did not know what it was. It might have been a star.
4761. Could it have been a star - could you have taken it for a star?
- Oh, quite possibly.
4762. But when you satisfied yourself from the number of lights that it was a relief boat -
- We pulled toward it.
4763. You pulled toward it. At that time were there any people in the water?
- There were no noises; no sounds then.
4764. All moaning and cries of distress had ceased?
- Yes; that must have been about 4 o'clock.
4765. Daybreak?
- It was just breaking day; yes.
4766. As you pulled your boat toward the Carpathia I understood you to say you saw icebergs?
- Yes, sir.
4767. Several of them. Did you see any bodies in the water?
- None whatever, sir.
4768. After that time?
- None whatever, at any time.
4769. Did you, at any time during the time you were lying on your oars awaiting developments, see lights of any other character than those displayed on the Titanic or the Carpathia?
- Yes; some of our boats had lamps and green lights.
4770. Aside from the lifeboats, did you see any other lights?
- I saw one white light.
4771. Where?
- Away on the horizon. We could not make anything out of it.
4772. At what time?
- About half-past 1.
4773. While you were lying on your oars?
- Yes.
4774. In the lifeboat?
- Yes.
4775. In what position was it?
- It was to the westward. Right ahead -
4776. Right on the course of the Titanic?
- Exactly.
4777. Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Boxhall on that point?
- No, I did not. I have heard him speak about it.
4778. Describe what you saw with your own eyes.
- I just saw a white light, and that is all. I said, "There is no use in pulling toward it until we know what it is." We saw the light, but I said, "What is the use of pulling to it?" It might have been one of our own boats with a white light on it.
4779. One of your own lifeboats?
- Yes.
4780. Did you see these lights at any time before you left the Titanic?
- No, I did not, sir.
4781. Did you see any rockets or other signals of distress sent up from the Titanic, under the so-called Morse regulations?
- Oh, no; the Morse lamp is altogether different from the rocket.
4782. I understand. I will divide the question. Did you see any Morse signals given from the Titanic before you left her side, or while you were lying on your oars in that lifeboat?
- No; I did not notice the Morse -
4783. Did you see any rockets?
- I should say about a dozen rockets were fired.
4784. What did you see? What did they do?
- They were fired from the rail. They make a report while leaving the rail, and also an explosion in the air, and they throw stars, of course, in the air.
4785. Red in color?
- Various colors.
4786. You saw those signals of distress, did you, from the Titanic?
- Yes.
4787. And you saw about a dozen or so of them?
- It may have been a dozen or it may have been more, sir.
4788. When was this? When did you first see them; before you left the Titanic?
- No; shortly after.
4789. Did you see any while you were aboard the Titanic, any of that character?
- None were fired.
4790. None were fired?
- No.
4791. You do not know, of your own knowledge, whether the Morse signals of distress were given?
- There are no Morse signals of distress.
4792. Well, I mean Morse signals. I mean a communication from the Titanic -
- To this supposed ship?
4793. To this supposed ship, on your course?
- Yes; I heard of them Morsing to her; that is all. I do not know for certain.
4794. You heard of that, but you did not see anything of that kind?
- No, sir.
4795. And do not know anything about it of your own knowledge?
- No, sir.
4796. Did you have a watch on when you entered the lifeboat?
- I did, sir.
4797. Can you fix the exact moment of time when the Titanic disappeared?
- 2.20 exactly, ship's time. I took my watch out at the time she disappeared, and I said, "It is 2.20," and the passengers around me heard it.
4798. 2.20 a. m.?
- 2.20 a. m., the 15th of April.
4799. Did the firing of the rockets make any noise like the report of a pistol?
- Like the report of a gun.
4800. Did you, aboard the Titanic, hear anything of your proximity to the Frankfurt, of the North German Lloyd, or any other ship?
- No, sir.
4801. Do you know what time the Helig Olav - do you know a boat of that name?
- No; I do not.
4802. You do not know anything about a boat of that name?
- There may be one.
4803. But you do not know?
- No; I do not know.
4804. I neglected to ask you whether, in fixing the time when the Titanic disappeared beneath the water, you gave me ship's time?
- Yes; that is ship's time.
4805. You had the accurate ship's time?
- Yes, sir.
4806. When were the ship's clocks set; do you know?
- They are set at midnight every night.
4807. They were set at midnight?
- Every night.
4808. And were they set at midnight Sunday night?
- No; we had something else to think of.
4809. Exactly; so that you got the ship's time?
- Ship's time.
4810. From midnight Saturday?
- Yes.
4811. And your watch -
- Was correct.
4812. Was correct?
- Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher:
Midday or midnight, did he say?
Senator Smith:
Midnight.
4813. (Senator Fletcher.) Midnight of Saturday night?
- They are corrected in the forenoon, perhaps half a minute or a minute; that is all.
Senator Smith:
What is that, Mr. Lightoller?
Mr. Lightoller:
The clocks are set at midnight, but that is for the approximate noon position of the following day. Therefore Sunday noon the clocks will be accurate.
4814. That is Mr. Lightoller, the second officer. (To the witness.) What was the Greenwich time compared with the ship's time?
- I can not say.
Senator Smith:
Can you say, Mr. Lightoller?
Mr. Lightoller:
I can give you the Greenwich time.
Senator Smith:
I wish you would.
Mr. Lightoller:
5.47 - 2.20 - 5.47 Greenwich mean time: 2.20 apparent time of ship.
4815. (Senator Perkins - to the Witness.) Captain, what was the certificate the Titanic had as to number of passengers and crew?
- I do not know, sir.
4816. She had over 2,000, did she not?
- Passengers and crew?
4817. Yes.
- I think so.
4818. And you had boats to accommodate only about 1,200 at the most?
- I could not say how many they were supposed to accommodate.
4819. Twenty lifeboats, with a capacity of about 60, a sea boat, and a collapsible - let us call the average 60; it would be about 1,200 passengers and crew they were capable of carrying?
- Yes.
4820. Therefore she had life-saving appliances for only about one-half of the passengers and crew?
- All these details can be got from the builders, I suppose.
4821. She had a certificate from the board of trade in London or Liverpool, did she not?
- The British Board of Trade, issued from London, I suppose.
4822. (Senator Burton.) Are you quite sure, Mr. Pitman, that you saw a white light ahead?
- Yes; but I am not certain what it was attached to. It may have been one of our own boats.
4823. That is, one of the lifeboats that had been cut loose?
- Yes; one of the lifeboats.
4824. Could you not tell whether it was a steamer or sailing vessel coming on your course, or whether it was a floating lifeboat there right near at hand?
- No; because there was no motion in it, no movement.
4825. Whatever it was, it was not moving?
- Not moving.
4826. How long was it visible?
- I really could not say; I did not really take any notice of it.
4827. When did you first see it?
- It may have been 1 o'clock or half past 1. One of my men called my attention to the white light over there.
4828. How far distant did it seem to be?
- It may have been 3 miles.
4829. You did not see the red light on the starboard side?
- No; I did not?
4830. You did not think, then, that that was a steamer or a sailing vessel coming?
- No; I did not, sir.
Senator Burton:
I believe that is all.
4831. (Senator Newlands.) What is the fastest ship you have ever sailed on?
- The Titanic, sir.
4832. (Senator Fletcher.) Who was the chief officer on the Titanic?
- Mr. Wilde.
4833. And there were how many other officers?
- Six.
4834. You designate them as the chief officer, and then the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth? [Wilde, Murdoch, Lightoller, Pitman, Boxhall, Lowe and Moody] -
- Exactly.
4835. What are the duties of the chief officer?
- He keeps his watch the same as the others, the same as the first and second, sir.
4836. What became of him?
- He went with the rest.
4837. When did you see him last, and where?
- I can not recollect seeing him at all, sir.
4838. You do not remember seeing him at all that Sunday night?
- Not after 8 p. m.
4839. Was he on duty at all?
- No; not from 6. He was due on watch at 2 a. m.
4840. And he went off watch when?
- At 6 p.m.
4841. You did not see him about the ship at all after the accident?
- I did not, sir; no.
4842. And then the first officer was who?
- Mr. Murdoch.
4843. And you testified about seeing him last when you lowered boat No. 5?
- Exactly.
4844. When did he go on duty that night?
- He was on duty then, at the time of the accident; at 10 o'clock he went on.
4845. Who was the second officer?
- Mr. Lightoller.
4846. When did he go on duty?
- He had left the bridge at 10; he was on duty from 6 to 10.
4847. You saw him about the decks after the accident?
- No; I can not say that I did, because he was on the opposite side of the ship from me. I was on the starboard side and he was on the port side. I did see him once on the port side; yes.
4848. What was he doing when you saw him?
- Superintending the clearing away of the boats.
4849. Did you see him any other time except at that moment when he was superintending the clearing of the boats?
- No; I did not see him after that. The next time I saw him was when we came alongside of the Carpathia.
4850. What were his duties?
- The same as the first.
4851. Where did he belong at that time? What was his particular place on the ship?
- At the time of the accident?
4852. Yes.
- He was off watch then; he was in bed.
4853. Were his quarters close to yours?
- Next door.
4854. You did not see him when you got up and went out, when you first heard of the accident?
- I saw him when I was coming back; on my return.
4855. Did you hear him give any orders or directions or instructions, or anybody give him any instructions or orders?
- No; we were inside, in our own quarters then.
4856. But after that?
- No; I did not. I was not in his company after that.
4857. The next officer was who?
- Myself.
4858. You were in charge of boat No. 5?
- Yes, sir.
4859. What were your duties in connection with that boat?
- Simply to get it out and get the people into it, and get her away.
4860. Is the officer in charge of the boat expected to go with the boat if it leaves the ship?
- Not necessarily so.
4861. Is it his duty to see that the boat is properly loaded?
- The senior officer will see to that, superintending the lowering of the boats.
4862. Who was the senior officer that night?
- Mr. Murdoch was the senior officer on that side.
4863. After the boat is lowered and in command of the officer who is placed in command of it, it is his duty to direct the movement of that boat, is it not?
- Exactly.
4864. Irrespective of any suggestions or demands of passengers or crew?
- Yes.
4865. Can you draw just a rough diagram showing the location of those boats on the ship?
- I can show you a photograph of it that would be better than a drawing. I am not a very good hand at that.
4866. You can show a photograph showing the location of the boats, and their numbers?
- I can. (Handing photograph.)
4867. Start, for instance -
- Forward?
4868. Forward. You are looking at the stern here, are you not? How are the boats numbered on the starboard?
- Even numbers one side and odd numbers the other.
4869. Which is which?
- The port side would be No.2.
Senator Smith: Witness, just number the boats on this diagram (handing witness diagram).
4870. (Senator Fletcher.) How are they numbered?
- Even numbers port side, odd numbers starboard side.
4871. Beginning on the starboard side, you commence with No. 1, the emergency boat, do you not?
- With No. 1.
4872. That is the emergency boat, is it not?
- Emergency; yes.
4873. That boat is swung away from the ship?
- It is always swung out.
4874. Then the next one to that would be No. 3, that is a lifeboat?
- Nos. 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15; this is the starboard side.
4875. On the port side you would begin with No. 2, the emergency boat?
- Nos. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16. There are no numbers given to the collapsibles.
4876. Where are the collapsible boats placed?
- Close by the bridge.
4877. Under what numbers?
- Under Nos. 1 and 2.
4878. The collapsibles are placed under Nos. 1 and 2?
- Two of them are.
4879. Then there are four of these?
- Yes; the other two of them are close by the funnel.
4880. Under Nos. 4 and 6?
- Abreast of Nos. 3 and 4.
4881. On the house?
- On the officers' house.
4882. What officer had charge of No. 7?
- There was no officer in that boat.
4883. What officer was assigned to No. 7?
- No officer was assigned to it - a petty officer.
4884. Whose station was it?
- I can not remember them all.
4885. You stated at one time that the fifth [Lowe] and sixth [Moody] officers were placed in charge of boats, did you not?
- That was at Southampton.
4886. How about on the voyage?
- We were each allotted a boat.
4887. You do not remember what officer was assigned to No. 7?
- No.
4888. You testified that Mr. Murdoch superintended the loading of No. 7, did you not?
- Yes.
4889. Whom did he place in charge of the boat when it was loaded?
- A quartermaster, I think.
4890. Did he continue in charge? Did he go with the boat?
- Oh, yes.
4891. He went with the boat?
- He went with the boat.
4892. What assistants did he have in that boat?
- Two or three more of the crew there with him. What rating they were I can not say.
4893. I understood you to say that after you reached the water and found No. 7 and attached your boat to her, there was no officer in charge of her - no one able to row her?
- I did not, sir. No; I said there was no officer there.
4894. I am talking about No. 7, the lifeboat.
- There was a quartermaster in charge.
4895. Who were the people in No. 7?
- What do you mean - the passengers or the crew?
4896. Everybody.
- I have not the slightest idea who the people were in her.
4897. You saw her the next morning?
- Yes; but I do not know one passenger in a thousand.
4898. No; but I mean, speaking generally, with reference to the men, women, and children, how many were in the boat?
- I really could not say.
4899. I understood you to say that when No. 7 reached the water you afterwards had her attached to your boat, because there was nobody in her to row No. 7.
- No; not to row it. My idea of lashing together was to keep together, so that if nothing hove in sight before daylight we could steady ourselves and cause a far bigger show than one boat only and with far more hope of being picked up. That was my idea in hanging together.
4900. Do you know how many oarsmen there were in No. 7?
- I do not, sir.
4901. Were there plenty of capable oarsmen in No. 7 to navigate her?
- I do not know anything about the crew in No. 7 at all.
4902. Notwithstanding she was right alongside of you?
- No; I do not.
4903. Did you notice her when she was unloaded on the Carpathia?
- No; I did not, sir.
4904. How long after your boat was reached by the Carpathia was it before No. 7 was reached?
- It may have been 20 minutes. I did not assist in unloading No. 7.
4905. Why did you place on No.7 two men, as you have stated?
- Two passengers, that was.
4906. Two passengers?
- Yes, sir.
4907. Why did you do that?
- Simply to even them up a bit.
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