British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry

Day 13

Testimony of Herbert J. Pitman

Examined by Mr. BUTLER ASPINALL.

14911. Were you serving as third Officer on the "Titanic" at the time of this accident?
- Yes.

14912. What certificate do you hold?
- Ordinary Master.

14913. How long have you been in the service of the "White Star" Line?
- Five and a-half years.

14914. And during those 5 1/2 years have you been travelling backwards and forwards across the Atlantic?
- A twelve-month only.

14915. And have you had considerable experience on the sea in other parts of the world besides the Atlantic?
- Sixteen years.

14916. Twelve months experience in the Atlantic?
- Of the North Atlantic.

14917. I will get this fact from you now, it comes a little later in your story. You were saved in boat No. 5, were you not?
- Yes.

14918. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) We have had some evidence with regard to boat No. 5, My Lord, but not of a very satisfactory character. It is the evidence of Shiers, the fireman, at page 113. He was not able to give us very useful evidence with regard to the matter. It is Question 4653: - "(Q.) Then you got into No. 5? Was No. 5 lowered? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Who were in No. 5? You were, who else? - (A.) One other fireman, a steward, and a quartermaster. (Q.) And were there some women and children in No. 5? - (A.) Women, no children. (Q.) Do you know how many women? - (A.) No. (Q.) Was the boat full or not? - (A.) It was not full - as many as it would take off the davits was what the Officer said - as many as he thought the boat would take off the davits." (To the witness.) To come to the Sunday, the 14th, at the time of the accident you were off watch and asleep in your cabin, were you not?
- That is right.

14919. When before, on that day, had you last been on duty?
- 6 to 8 p.m.

14920. And before in the course of that day, had you been on duty?
- 12 to 4 in the afternoon.

14921. Was it within your knowledge that the ship would probably meet with ice that evening?
- We knew that we should be in the longitude of ice.

14922. Who told you that?
- I saw it in a Marconigram.

14923. Do you know from which ship that Marconigram had come?
- I have no idea.

14924. Did you particularly concern yourself with that matter?
- No, I simply looked at them and saw that there was no ice reported on the track.

14925. Did you see one marconigram or two Marconigrams?
- Two, I think.

14926. Were these posted in some part of the ship?
- Yes, in the chart room.

14927. And you read them, did you?
- Yes.

14928. Was there any discussion between you and any other of the Officers about the fact that you would probably meet ice that night?
- I do not think so.

14929. Do you mean you do not remember?
- I do not remember it.

14930. As you have said, you were turned in at the time the vessel struck the iceberg, and, I believe, asleep?
- Yes.

14931. You were aroused and at first did you think much had happened?
- No, I did not.

14932. What was it aroused you; was it a noise, or a jar, or what?
- A noise; I thought the ship was coming to anchor.

14933. Did you lie on in your bunk for some few minutes?
- I did.

14934. At the end of those few minutes did you do anything?
- Yes. I went on deck.

14935. Was that curiosity; or what took you there?
- Yes, I suppose it was.

14936. Getting on deck, what did you see or hear?
- I saw nothing and heard nothing.

14937. Did you go to the forward part of the navigation bridge?
- No, I only just went outside the quarters.

14938. The Officers' quarters?
- That is all.

14939. As it were, put your head out and saw nothing?
- No, I went on deck.

14940. Seeing and hearing nothing, what did you do then?
- I went back inside again.

14941. And turned in again?
- No, I met Mr. Lightoller first of all, and I asked him what had happened, if we had hit something, and he said, "Yes, evidently."

14942. He said "Evidently"?
- Yes, evidently something had happened.

14943. After you had received that information what did you do?
- I went to bed.

14944. How long did you remain in bed?
- It may have been five minutes.

14945. And at the end of five minutes what did you do?
- I thought I might as well get up, as it was no use trying to go to sleep again, as I was due on watch in a few minutes.

14946. Your watch was the middle watch, from 12 to 4?
- That night, yes.

14947. Did you get up and proceed to dress?
- Yes.

14948. While you were dressing did you receive any information?
- Mr. Boxhall came to my room and said the mail room was afloat.

14949. How long do you think had elapsed between the time you were aroused and Mr. Boxhall coming and telling you this?
- I should think it must be 20 minutes.

14950. Did he give you any information as to what had caused the mail room to be afloat?
- Yes; I asked him what we had struck, and he said an iceberg.

14951. After that did you quickly proceed with your dressing?
- Yes, I put my coat on and went on deck.

14952. When you got on deck, did you see anything being done?
- The men were uncovering the boats.

14953. On which side was that?
- That was on the port side.

14954. Did you meet the sixth Officer when you went on deck, Mr. Moody?
- Yes; I met him on the afterpart of the deck.

14955. Did he give you any information?
- No, I asked him if he had seen the iceberg; he answered, No, but there was ice on the forward well deck.

14956. I believe you at that time did not think anything serious had happened, did you?
- I did not.

14957. Then, I think, you went and looked at some ice, and, after having looked at the ice, did you then go under the forecastle head to see if any structural damage had been done to the bow of the ship?
- Exactly.

14958. I believe you saw none. As you were coming from the forecastle, did you see any firemen?
- Yes, I saw a whole crowd of them coming up from below.

14959. Did you ask them what was causing them to come up?
- Yes.

14960. What was their answer?
- That the water was coming into their quarters.

14961. Which side were the firemen coming, the port or starboard side?
- The starboard side.

14962. In consequence of what they told you, did you go and do anything?
- No, I simply looked down No. 1 hatch and saw water rushing up No. 1 hatch, or at least round it.

14963. Is that the hatch which has the coamings which I think we were told was on G deck?
- Yes, the same one that Symons was speaking of the other day.

14964. Was the water coming in fast or slow, or how?
- Quite a little stream, both sides of the hatch.

14965. Did you notice what direction it was flowing from; was it flowing from forward to aft, or how, or did not you notice?
- Well, I think it was running mostly from the starboard side.

14966. Running from the starboard side?
- Yes.

The Commissioner:
I do not understand that.

14967. (Mr. Butler Aspinall - To the witness.) What do you mean by from the starboard side?
- Coming in from the starboard side of the ship.

The Commissioner:
That I understand.

14968. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Seeing that, did you then go back to the boat deck?
- Yes.

14969. Were the boats still being uncovered, or had they finished the uncovering of the boats then?
- I could not say what had happened on the port side. I then returned to the starboard side and they were still uncovering the boats.

14970. You are now on the starboard side, and I think you remained on the starboard side, did you not?
- Yes.

14971. Did you see the first Officer taking part in getting the boats ready?
- No, I did not see him.

14972. Did you hear any orders being given?
- No more than getting the boats filled with women and children, that is all I heard.

14973. Did you go to anyone of these boats?
- Yes, I went to No. 5.

14974. Did you go to No. 7 first?
- No, Mr. Murdoch was there. I did not see him.

14975. Which was your boat?
- No. 1 is my boat usually in case of emergency.

14976. If there was an emergency you would take charge of No. 1, is that so?
- Yes, that is in case of a man overboard, and things like that.

14977. Was your name on the boat list, as being the Officer to look after that boat?
- Yes, as an emergency.

14978. We have been told that there are boat lists put up about the ship; that is so, is it not?
- That is so.

14979. (The Commissioner.) Did you ever read your name on any list?
- I did not, as it is an understood thing the third Officer looks after No. 1 boat.

14980. You did not see your name on any list?
- No.

14981. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Would it be your duty to inform yourself as to what your boat was according to the list?
- No, it is quite an understood thing in the Company for the third and Fourth Officers to have No. 1 and No. 2 boat.

14982. Apart from understandings, would it be your duty at the beginning of the voyage to go and ascertain what boat was your boat?
- No.

14983. It is not your duty?

The Commissioner:
If, Mr. Aspinall, it was the invariable practice for him to attend to No. 1 emergency boat, there was no occasion for him to look at the list.

14984. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) No, My Lord. (To the witness.) Now you went in fact to No. 5. Why was that?
- Mr. Murdoch ordered me there.

14985. Was there any other Officer there?
- I did not see anyone.

14986. Of course, you know all the Officers?
- Oh, yes.

14987. If there had been one there you would have known?
- Mr. Murdoch was there before the boat was lowered.

14988. Had you seen Murdoch there at No. 5, or merely heard his voice?
- Oh, no, I saw him.

14989. At No. 5?
- At No. 5, after the boat was out and practically filled with passengers.

14990. When you got to No. 5, in what state was No. 5?
- Well, the cover was still on.

14991. How long do you think had elapsed from the time of striking the berg up to the time you got to No. 5? It is difficult, I know, to be certain about time. Was it half-an-hour or 45 minutes? Let me help you. You gave me one space of time - about 20 minutes?
- Yes, I remember that.

14992. Will that help you to approximate what you think was the time between the striking of the iceberg and your getting to boat No. 5? Was it an hour, do you think?
- No, I should think it would be about 12.20.

14993. You say the cover was still on. Was the cover being stripped at the time you got there?
- It was being uncovered then - Yes.

14994. Did you see Mr. Ismay close to this boat?
- I did.

14995. Was he taking any part, saying anything, or doing anything?
- He remarked to me as we were uncovering the boat, "There is no time to lose." Of course, I did not know who he was then, and therefore did not take any notice.

14996. You have since learned that that gentleman was Mr. Ismay, have you?
- Yes.

14997. How many men had you helping at this boat?
- I think four.

14998. Were they sailor men, or could you tell in the darkness of the night?
- Well, I knew that two were.

14999. And was the boat uncovered and swung out?
- Yes.

15000. What was done with it? Was it then lowered to the level of the boat deck?
- It was lowered level.

15001. And after you had got out to the level of the boat deck, what did you do with regard to passengers?
- Mr. Ismay remarked to me to get it filled with women and children, to which I replied, "I will await the Commander's orders." I then went to the bridge, and I saw Captain Smith, and I told him what Mr. Ismay had said. He said, "Carry on."

15002. (The Commissioner.) What does that mean?
- Go ahead.

15003. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) At this time, did you realise that this gentleman was Mr. Ismay, or did you still think he was one of the passengers?
- Oh, I knew then that it was Mr. Ismay - Yes, judging by the descriptions I had had given me of him.

15004. The Captain told you to "carry on." Did you then return to the boat deck?
- I was already there; I returned to No. 5.

15005. Yes, you were on it. You returned to your boat No. 5?
- Yes.

15006. When you got back, were any people being put into it?
- None at all.

15007. What happened then?
- I simply stood in the boat and said, "Come along, ladies," and helped them in - Mr. Ismay helped to get them there.

15008. How many ladies did you get in?
- I do not know; between 30 and 40, I should imagine.

15009. Were there any children?
- Yes, we had two.

15010. Could you tell whether these women were first, second or third class passengers that were getting into the boat?
- Most, I should say, would be first class.

15011. In addition to those women that you got into the boat, did you take any male passengers in?
- Yes, I should say about half-a-dozen or more.

15012. Why did you let the male passengers in?
- Simply because there were no more women around - at least, there were two there, but they would not come.

15013. Did they give you any reason for refusing to come?
- No.

15014. You say there were no other women around? Could you see whether there were other women in other parts of the boat deck? Did you notice at that time?
- There were none in sight at that time - at least, not on the starboard deck.

15015. In view of the number that you had got into the boat at this time, did you think that that was as many as this boat would safely carry before she was lowered to the water?
- No, I did not decide how many she should take.

15016. Who decided that?
- Mr. Murdoch, he came along just then.

15017. What did he say?
- Well, I jumped out of the boat then, ready to lower away, and he said, "You go in charge of this boat, and also look after the others, and stand by to come along the after gangway when hailed."

15018. Did you go in charge of this boat?
- I did.

15019. There were 30 to 40 women you have told us, two children, about half-a-dozen male passengers, yourself, and how many of the crew?
- Four.

15020. (The Commissioner.) Did the four include yourself?
- No, My Lord.

15021. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Did you say something about Mr. Murdoch saying he would hail you when he wanted you alongside the gangway?
- Yes. He said, "Keep handy to come to the after gangway." Therefore, I understood he would hail us.

15022. You understood it?
- Yes.

15023. Was the boat properly lowered away?
- It was.

15024. And you got put down to the waters edge?
- Yes.

15025. On reaching the water what was done with that boat?
- We pulled away about 100 yards from the side of the ship.

15026. And then?
- Lay on our oars.

15027. Did you take her in the direction of the gangway, in case Mr. Murdoch might hail you and order you back?
- Well, we dropped astern a little.

15028. That would be somewhere in the direction towards the gangway?
- Yes.

15029. (The Commissioner.) Just put your finger on the gangway you are talking about. (The witness pointed it out on the model.) That is right aft?
- Yes, he said the after gangway.

15030. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Before you left the ship had you heard any order given about lowering the gangway or opening the gangway door?
- No, that was the first I knew of it.

15031. After you were in the boat and had rowed out this 100 yards somewhat astern did you notice whether the gangway door was open or not?
- I do not think it was.

15032. You probably were looking in that direction?
- Well, I was watching the ship the whole time.

15033. And you do not think it was opened?
- I do not.

The Commissioner:
How many gangways are there that side of the ship?

Mr. Butler Aspinall:
I think two, My Lord, but I speak subject to correction.

The Commissioner:
The gangway we have heard of yesterday was forward.

Mr. Butler Aspinall:

The Solicitor-General:
Yesterday we did hear of them at both ends.

Mr. Butler Aspinall:
12 or 13 the builders tell me.

The Commissioner:
On each side?

Mr. Butler Aspinall:
No. I am told there are eight passenger gangways.

The Commissioner:
Does that mean four on each side?

Mr. Butler Aspinall:

The Commissioner:
But they are not on the same level.

15034. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Two on D deck amidships - one on E deck forward and aft; that would make four on the one side and four on the other. If I might go back for one moment - I do not know whether it is important or not, but it might become important - did Mr. Murdoch, in addition to telling you to keep handy to come back to the gangway, say anything more to you?
- No; he only shook hands and said, "Good-bye, good luck"; that was all.

15035. When he said "Good-bye" to you in that way, did you think the situation was serious; did you think the ship was doomed then?
- I did not, but I thought he must have thought so.

15036. Again, with regard to the time, how long do you think it was between the time of striking the berg and your boat reaching the water. You have given me two estimates of time, 20 minutes, and 12.20. Could you help me on this matter?
- Well, I should think it would be about 12.30 When No. 5 boat reached the water.

15037. I do not know whether this will help you to see whether that is right. Was your boat in the water about an hour before the "Titanic" went down?
- I think it was longer than that.

15038. Much longer or a little longer?
- It is hard to say.

15039. Now, I have got you in the boat somewhere about 100 yards from the ship, you watching the ship. Whilst you were watching the ship did you then begin to think she was in a condition in which it was probable she might be lost?
- No, I did not give up hopes until I saw the last line of lights on the forecastle head disappear.

15040. When you reached the water and were in the boat, did you see then that her head was getting deeper and deeper in the water?
- Oh, yes, I watched the different lines of lights disappear.

15041. Did you see any other boat on the water anywhere near you after your boat had reached the water?
- Are you alluding to one of our boats?

15042. Yes, I mean one of the "Titanic" boats?
- Yes, No. 7 was quite close to me.

15043. Was No. 7, as far as you know, in the water before yours or after?
- No. 7 was before; it was the first boat launched on the starboard side.

15044. No. 7?
- No. 7.

15045. And the second boat was?
- No 5, and No. 3 next.

15046. How do you know No. 3 came next? Did you see it?
- I saw it coming down; I saw it being lowered.

15047. Did you notice any other boats on that side being lowered?
- I did not.

15048. You speak of 7, 5, and 3?
- 7, 5, and 3, yes.

15049. In that order? The Solicitor-General points out that Jewell refers to this that No. 7 was the first boat on the starboard side.

The Solicitor-General:
At page 19, Question 147, Jewell says he was in the boat, and it was the first to go on the starboard side.

The Witness:
That is right.

15050. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Tell me with regard to the equipment of the boat you were in, do you know whether it had a lamp or not?
- Mine had not.

15051. Did you look for it?
- I did.

15052. And would you, as an Officer, know what was the right place to look for the lamp?
- Exactly.

15053. Was there any compass in your boat?
- No.

15054. Did you look for it?
- Well, I did not at the time, because it would be absolutely useless to me.

15055. But how do you know there was no compass? You say you did not look at the time. Did you look at some later time?
- Yes, after the boats were on the "Carpathia."

15056. Was there any water in your boat?
- Yes.

15057. In what? Breakers?
- In two breakers.

15058. Two breakers?
- Yes.

15059. Were there any biscuits?
- Yes.

15060. In what?
- A tank in the stern of the boat.

15061. Whilst you were in the boat and before the ship sank, did you see any light or lights which you took to be the light or lights of another steamer?
- I saw a white light which I took to be the stern light of a sailing ship.

15062. How far away did you judge it to be?
- I thought it was about five miles.

15063. That would be a good distance to see a stern light, would it not?
- Yes, it may have been less.

15064. Was it a good night for seeing a light; for seeing a good stern light?
- An excellent night.

15065. They would be visible at a long distance?
- Yes.

15066. Whilst you were in the boat did you notice the "Titanic" sending up rockets?
- Yes, she did.

15067. We have heard this in detail. Was there good discipline and order maintained in your boat?
- Well, that is not for me to say; it is for other people to say that.

15068. (The Commissioner.) No, but you are asked your opinion?
- As regards the passengers, yes, and the crew.

15069. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) I am not suggesting you did not behave well; I am only asking the question for the information of the Court. It is a general question asked with regard to all the boats. I am not suggesting for one moment that there was anything wrong. You behaved well, I have no doubt?
- I do not know about myself; it is not for me to say that.

15070. You say the passengers and the crew behaved well?
- They did.

15071. Well, that exhausts it. Now you saw the vessel go down?
- Yes.

15072. What did she do when she went down; you were an Officer, perhaps you can tell us. Inquires have been made of others. How did she sink? She sank by the head, we know that?
- Yes.

The Commissioner:
Just describe it in your own way.

Mr. Butler Aspinall:
May I hand him the profile.

15073. (The Commissioner.) Yes. (To the witness.) - Describe it in your own way. (The profile was handed to the witness.) - That is the position I saw her in when we left. She gradually disappeared like that; she went right on end like that and went down that way (Demonstrating.)

15074. Did her afterpart ever right itself?
- I should not think so; I did not see it.

15075. Before she finally disappeared?
- No.

15076. Could you have seen it if it had happened?
- I think so; I was only barely 100 yards away.

15077. Were you keeping your eyes upon her?
- I was.

15078. You know this is suggested - supposing that is the head of the ship and going down in this way with the afterpart coming up in that way; a number of Witnesses have said that before she finally foundered, plunged into the sea, the afterpart righted itself like that and then she went down. The question is whether you think that is true that she broke in two in that way bringing her afterpart level with the water again and then went down in that way. Did she crack in the middle?
- I do not think so. If the afterpart had broken off it would have remained afloat.

15079. Not broken off, but cracked in that way?
- No.

15080. At all events, the point is this: Did you see the afterend of the ship - you saw it up in the air - right itself and come flush with the water again?
- It did not.

15081. And you say you looked, and if it had happened you would have seen it?
- Certainly.

15081a. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) While you were in the water, before the "Titanic" sank, did you hear any hail either from Mr. Murdoch or the Captain or from anybody else to come back near the gangway?
- No.

15082. Did you hear anybody on the "Titanic" using a megaphone?
- I did not.

15083. Did you transfer any of your passengers to any other boat?
- Yes, I transferred four, I think it was.

15084. Into what boat?
- I am not quite certain of the number, but I think it was No. 7.

15085. Why did you transfer those passengers?
- Because they had a less number of passengers in that boat than I had.

15086. As the "Titanic" sank and immediately after did you hear any screams?
- Immediately after she sank?

15087. Yes?
- Yes.

15088. Were you able to go in the direction of the screams and render any assistance?
- I did not go.

15089. But do you think you could have gone? I am not suggesting anything; I only want to get the facts from you. Do you think it would have been safe or reasonable to go?
- I do not.

15090. What is your reason?
- Well, there was such a mass of people in the water we should have been swamped.

15091. In your view you had a sufficient number of people on your boat. Is that so?
- No, but I had too many in the boat to go back to the wreck.

15092. And I think you remained on, the men more or less lying on their oars till daylight, and then you were picked up by the "Carpathia"?
- Yes; we lay at rest the remainder of the night.

15093. (The Commissioner.) Before you go into that there are two questions I want to put. (To the witness.) Whereabouts were you when the "Titanic" sank?
- About 200 yards away.

15094. On what side?
- On the starboard quarter.

15095. Would that be about abreast of the mainmast?
- About that, My Lord.

15096. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) When you gave evidence in America you said this: I want to know if you say it is accurate. You were asked: "Can you fix the exact moment of time when the "Titanic" disappeared?
- Two-twenty exactly, ship's time. I took my watch out at the time she disappeared, and I said, 'It is 2.20,' and the passengers around me heard it."

15097. Do you remember giving that evidence?
- That is true, yes.

15098. That is correct?
- Yes.

15099. I want you to give me the benefit of your views on this matter. One of the questions which will probably be asked is this: "Had the 'Titanic' the means of throwing searchlights around her. If so, did she make use of them to discover ice? Should searchlights have been provided and used?" In view of your experience of these waters and also as an Officer and a sailor, what is your view as to the utility of searchlights when you are in the ice region?
- They might be of some assistance.

15100. (The Commissioner.) Have you ever seen them used?
- No, My Lord.

15101. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Have you ever considered the matter before I asked you the question?
- No, I have never considered it before.

15102. (The Commissioner.) Do you know whether searchlights are used upon any Atlantic liners for the purpose of ascertaining whether there is ice?
- I never heard of it, My Lord.

Examined by Mr. SCANLAN.

15103. During your watches from 6 to 8 and previously from 12 till 4 were you in charge of the bridge?
- No.

15104. Who was the Officer with you?
- The Chief, 2 to 6 in the afternoon.

15105. From 12 to 4?
- The first and Chief.

15106. And from 6 to 8?
- The second.

15107. Was the whole of the knowledge that you had of icebergs obtained from the chart?

The Commissioner:
From the chart room.

15108. (Mr. Scanlan.) From the chart in the chart room?
- No, from the marconigrams.

15109. Were any Marconigrams handed to you from 12 to 4?
- Not to me.

15110. Had you seen any Marconigram that reached the ship with reference to ice from 12 to 4 on Sunday?
- I saw two that reached the ship that day. I have no idea what time they arrived.

15111. You saw two that day?
- Yes.

15112. Do you know whether they were marconigrams that had come the previous day, on the saturday?
- No, they came on the Sunday.

15113. Are you quite sure of that?
- Yes.

15114. Did you read them?
- Yes, I read one - yes.

15115. You read one, but you did not read the other?
- No, not to remember what was on it.

15116. With respect to the one that you did read, can you tell us what was on it?
- No, no more than it stated, "Ice in longitude 49 to 51 W."

15117. Where did it come from?
- I have no idea.

15118. Had it come on the Sunday?
- It must have done. Had it come on the saturday I should have seen it before.

15119. When ice is reported to you, is it the duty of someone on the bridge or in the chart room to indicate on the chart kept in the chart room the location of the ice?
- I do not know about its being duty; we often do it; in fact, we usually do it.

15120. I see you gave evidence on this matter in America. You said in answer to Senator Smith: "You stated a few minutes ago that the second Officer, I believe, reported ice on the saturday night? (Mr. Pitman.) No, I said the fourth Officer. (Senator Smith.) Mr. Lowe? (Mr. Pitman.) Mr. Boxhall." Did you give this evidence: "(Senator Smith.) You said Mr. Boxhall reported ice saturday night, and that it was marked on the chart with a cross"?
- That is a mistake. It is Sunday night.

15121. It is a mistake?
- Yes, it was Sunday night.

15122. Where was it marked?
- On the North Atlantic Track Chart.

15123. I know it was marked on the Chart, but where was it marked with reference to the course you were steering?
- Some miles north of it.

15124. It was marked some miles north of the course you were steering. You were also questioned as to whether you had been made aware on the Sunday of any message which the "Titanic" had received from the "Californian" about ice. You were asked: "Did you learn from Mr. Lightoller that the 'Californian' had warned the 'Titanic' that she was in the vicinity of icebergs? (Mr. Pitman.) I did not, Sir. We had no conversation whatever. (Senator Smith.) Did you hear anything about a wireless from the 'Californian' on the direction of icebergs? (Mr. Pitman.) I did not, Sir." Is that the true state of the facts?
- That is so, yes; I did not know anything about the "Californian" till the Monday morning.

15125. That is, although you were an Officer on the bridge from 6 to 8 you know nothing of any wireless having come from the "Californian"?
- None came from 6 to 8 p.m.

15126. Or from any other ship?

The Solicitor-General:
Do you mean the "Californian," Mr. Scanlan?

15127. (Mr. Scanlan.) Yes. (To the witness.) I think they did get a message about 6?
- No messages arrived between those hours.

15127a. Had any message arrived that day that you knew of?
- The two Marconigrams I mentioned before arrived that day. That is all I know of.

The Commissioner:
You are talking about the Sunday?

Mr. Scanlan:

The Commissioner:
He has told us he saw two Marconigrams on the Sunday which had not arrived on the saturday, but that he does not know what ships they came from.

15128. (Mr. Scanlan - To the witness.) Was any mark put on the chart on the Sunday with reference to any messages you received on the Sunday?
- Yes, as far as I can remember, one was put on the chart between 4 and 6.

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