4908. You had plenty of room on your boat for all you had, and for more?
- I could have taken a few more in my boat.
4909. And still you insisted that No. 7 should take two of your men and a woman and a child?
- I did not insist. They wished to do it, and so I let them go.
4910. They asked to do that?
- They asked.
4911. Do you know who was in charge of No. 7 then; who was commanding No. 7?
- No, sir; I do not.
4912. Was it a member of the crew?
- Oh, yes; a member of the crew; a quartermaster, as far as I can recollect.
4913. You do not remember his name?
- All the men were new to me, practically.
4914. They did not want these men to assist in the oar work of No. 7, then?
- No; there was no oar work to be done, anyhow; they did not know where to pull to at that time.
4915. Saturday night, or Sunday morning, you said you heard of the icebergs. Did not the commander post notice or warning with regard to icebergs in the chart room, where the officers could see it?
- He had it in his own navigating room, and he also gave some one the position to put on the chart, which Mr. Boxhall did, I think.
4916. Are the Marconigrams posted generally in the chart room?
- They are always accessible.
4917. To all the officers?
- Generally speaking, yes. Each commander has a different system.
4918. Is there not a sort of deck log kept by the officers?
- Oh, yes.
4919. Where these matters, warnings as to icebergs, and things like that, would be noted?
- They are stuck on the notice board. We have a notice board, a blackboard. They stick them on there.
4920. Do you remember whether any such notice or warning was posted on this blackboard prior to Sunday or during Sunday?
- Not to my knowledge.
4921. You do not recall?
- There is one position they put on the chart. I can recollect that.
4922. That position was indicated on the chart by Mr. Boxhall?
- I think it was Mr. Boxhall.
4923. You do not remember exactly when that was done?
- No.
4924. You do remember that the chart showed icebergs off the route or track?
- Yes; away to the north of the track.
4925. How do you know what was the proper track or route of the ship?
- How do I know it?
4926. Yes.
- It is simply laid down for us.
4927. Laid down on the chart?
- Yes.
4928. And how do you know you were precisely where the chart showed the track to be?
- Because we got observations at half-past 7 that night.
4929. You knew that from your observations?
- Yes.
4930. And you could see that this iceberg, as noted, was off the track, and off the route you were traveling?
- Off the track.
4931. But you do not know how far?
- Yes; we had the exact position of it.
4932. How far was it off?
- I really could not say unless I had the position of the iceberg here now and put it on the chart.
4933. Was there only one iceberg indicated, or did the cross with the word "Ice" indicate the presence of ice generally?
- I think there was only one.
4934. Do you know how he came to note that one on the chart?
- Yes; we got it by Marconigram from some ship.
4935. You do not remember seeing the Marconigram?
- No; I do not. I remember Capt. Smith showed the position to the officer of the watch, or at least one of the junior officers, and he says, "Take this position," and he took it down and put it on the chart and stuck the leaf up in a rack. He wrote it on a sort of paper and stuck it on the frame.
4936. You do not recall exactly when that was done?
- No. It was some time Sunday.
4937. Did you hear any more about icebergs discussed among the officers, or in any other way?
- No.
4938. What officer had charge of the log of the ship?
- Well, the fifth [Lowe}and sixth {Moody] usually keep that. Which log do you mean? We keep two or three. The scrap log is kept on the bridge; the fifth and sixth look after that. The chief officer’s [Wilde] log is copied from that. Which do you mean?
4939. All of them.
- The fifth and sixth keep the scrap log, as everything happens on the bridge, alterations of courses, deviations, and that sort of thing, and it is copied from there into the chief officer's log, which is really the official log.
4940. Do you know if any of the logs were saved?
- None, sir. We had something else to think of besides log books, sir.
4941. You say the ship was going about 22 knots?
- About 21 1/2.
4942. Twenty-one and one-half knots per hour. And you say you had to study the question of coal? What do you mean by that? Did you take account of the amount of coal you had?
- Yes; I understood we had not quite sufficient; there was not sufficient there on board to drive here on at full speed.
4943. How do you know that?
- I had that from one of the engineers.
4944. Did you ask him whether he had enough coal to drive her at full speed?
- I knew we had not; he told me that we had not quite sufficient.
4945. What speed were you intending to make?
- We were intending to arrive in New York Wednesday morning.
4946. When did you gather that to be the intention?
- From the beginning of the trip.
4947. At the beginning of the trip; and from whom?
- That was the general impression throughout the ship.
4948. In order to do that, how many knots per hour would you have had to make?
- About twenty and a quarter - 21 knots.
4949. Had you increased the speed after leaving Southampton?
- After we left Queenstown we had.
4950. How much had you increased your speed Sunday night?
- To 21 1/2 knots.
4951. What increase was that over the speed you had been making prior to that?
- Only about a knot.
4952. You had been making about 20 1/2?
- Yes, 20 1/4 and 20 1/2 first, after we left Queenstown.
4953. How long did that continue?
- The next day, 21.
4954. And you kept increasing up to 21 1/2, so that at the time the iceberg was struck you were traveling at the highest rate of speed at which you had been going during the trip?
- Oh, no; the same speed we had been traveling for the last 24 hours.
4955. The same speed?
- The same speed.
4956. You were told, you say, by the engineer [Joseph Bell], that you did not have coal enough to go at a faster rate of speed than that?
- He remarked we had not sufficient coal on board to drive her full speed all the way across.
4957. Did you change the course of the ship after leaving Queenstown?
- Change the course of the ship?
4958. Yes.
- A number of times.
4959. Where was the last change of direction made?
- 5.50 on Sunday night.
4960. Sunday night?
- Yes.
4961. Where was that change made?
- I can not remember the position.
4962. Before that, were you traveling along the southerly track?
- Yes.
4963. And then you changed to this northerly course?
- No. We stuck to the track we were supposed to follow from the 14th of January to the 14th of August, just as agreed upon by the big steamship companies.
4964. Is that what is known as the northern track?
- That is known as the southern track.
4965. Which is known as the southern track?
- The one we were coming out on.
4966. Known as the southern track?
- Yes. We speak of the northern track as the track we follow between the 14th of August and the 14th of January. We speak of that as the northern track.
4967. There is no course, to the south of the one you were traveling, that is used for travel?
- Yes, I believe there is.
4968. What course were you on, if you can remember, at 5.50 p. m., Sunday?
- No, I can not remember. If I had the true course, I could make it.
4969. What extent of change did you make in the course at 5.50 p.m., or about that time, Sunday?
- I am not quite certain about that.
4970. Do you know any such designation as the "corner?"
- Yes, we were supposed to be at the corner at 5.50.
4971. What do you mean by that?
- That is 47° west and 42° north.
4972. At 5.50 p. m. you turned what you call the "corner?"
- The corner, yes.
4973. And you make almost a right angle change there, do you not?
- Oh, no.
4974. You make a considerable change in your course at the turning of the corner?
- No, it is not a great deal; not a right-angle turn by any means.
4975. What change does that lead you to, the northward of the way you were going?
- No; the course we were on when we struck -
4976. How many degrees did you change ?
- I can not remember. If I had a chart here I could tell you in a minute. South 84 or 86 west would be the true course we were making after 5.50; south 84 or 86, I am not quite certain which, was the true course.
4977. Do you remember the course prior to that?
- No; I can not remember it.
4978. Do you remember whether you increased speed after turning that corner?
- No; we did not, sir.
4979. As I understand, you say that Mr. Ismay told you that you had better get aboard with the women and children?
- No, no. He remarked to me, "You had better go ahead and get the women and children;" and I replied that I would await the commander's orders. I did not know it was Mr. Ismay at the time.
4980. Did you tell him what Mr. Ismay said?
- I said I judged that it was Mr. Ismay.
4981. And you told him what Mr. Ismay said?
- Yes.
4982. What did the commander say?
- "Carry on."
4983. That meant you were to obey the direction of Mr. Ismay?
- No; not by any means.
4984. What did it mean?
- It meant that I was to fill the boat with women.
4985. And lower the boat? Did it include that?
- Oh, yes. We take no orders from anybody except the commander.
4986. He said "Carry on," and that meant for you to go on and load the boat and lower it and get the people off, the women and children?
- Yes.
4987. How do you account for the fact that at that time there were no women and children around to be seen, even, let alone asking to get on board the boat?
- I can not account for that, sir.
4988. Did you see any trying to get into No. 7?
- No, I did not, sir.
4989. Did you see any trying to get into any other boats on the starboard side?
- No. Those were the only two boats coming down at that time - No. 5 and No.7.
4990. Had the others gone down?
- No; No. 7 was the first to go.
4991. And you went with No. 5, next.
- Yes.
4992. Did you see any of the others after No. 7 was lowered?
- From a distance.
4993. Did you know whether they were loaded or not? Could you tell whether they were full?
- I could not, sir. I helped to discharge them when they got to the Carpathia, but I did not take any notice of how many there were there.
4994. How long did it take to lower the boat after you got the people into it?
- It may have been a minute and it may have been two minutes.
4995. How many men does it take to lower that boat?
- Two men.
4996. What is the distance the boat has to go to get to the water?
- Well, we had to go 70 feet.
4997. Do I correctly understand you to say that you would not consider it safe to load a boat to its full capacity at the rail before lowering it?
- No; I do not think it would be wise to do it.
4998. Well, under the conditions obtaining there, where there were not enough boats to take care of more than one-third of the passengers, would you not risk loading the boat to its full capacity before lowering it?
- No; I do not think it would be wise to do so.
4999. Suppose the boat carries 65 people; how many would you feel it safe to put into the boat before lowering it?
- That would depend a lot on the condition of the boat, whether it was an old boat or a new boat.
5000. Well, I am taking conditions as they were there that night and those people.
- I think 40 would be a very safe load. I do not think boats are ever intended to be filled from the rail.
5001. How did you calculate to fill the boat?
- It was according to the number of people to go in.
5002. How did you expect to fill them?
- With a side ladder.
5003. (Senator Burton.) That is, let them down in the water and fill them with a side ladder?
- Yes, sir.
5004. (Senator Fletcher.) From deck E?
- No; it would not be E. It would be about D or C; C deck, I should say.
5005. It is intended and expected, then, to fill the boats by first lowering the boat and then letting the people down on side ladders?
- Yes, sir.
5006. Or through doors?
- Yes.
5007. Why was not that course pursued in this instance?
- Well, it was a new ship, and everything new, of course. It takes a certain amount of risk. That was a much quicker way, too.
5008. Which is the much quicker way?
- The way we did it.
5009. You say that you did not see any of the boats lowered on the port side?
- Not one, no.
5010. What course did you take after your boat was lowered into the water? Did you go to the stern of the Titanic, to the bow, or off from her?
- Just rowed off from her, that way (indicating).
5011. Which way?
- To the north.
5012. To the north how far?
- It may have been three or four hundred yards.
5013. And there you lay on your oars?
- Yes, waiting for future developments.
5014. And No.7 -
- Did likewise.
5015. And remained close by you until some time in the morning, when she cast off your rope and took care of herself?
- Yes.
5016. About what time in the morning was that?
- It may have been about a quarter to 3 or 3 o'clock.
5017. Just before you saw the Carpathia?
- Oh, an hour before we saw her, approximately.
5018. You saw the Carpathia about 3.30 o'clock, you said?
- Somewhere about then.
5019. Did you think it proper to take into your boat two firemen and two stewards; were they of any use as seamen?
- Yes; they were.
5020. Why did you take those two firemen and two stewards when you only needed four men to row the boat and you could supply the place of one of those yourself?
- I wanted somebody in the boat that knew something about it.
5021. Did they understand that sort of work?
- Three of them did, and probably the fourth one did; but I never tried him.
5022. And you had one sailor?
- Yes.
5023. You had one sailor, two firemen, and two stewards?
- Yes.
5024. And five or six male passengers besides those?
- Well, those three male passengers.
5025. After the bow of the Titanic went down, you heard these explosions?
- No; I did not hear them until the ship had disappeared altogether.
5026. After the bow of the Titanic went down, she assumed an almost upright position?
- Yes, sir.
5027. How long after getting into that position was it before she disappeared entirely?
- I think it must have been a question of seconds.
5028. And then came the explosions?
- Then came the explosions.
5029. And after the bow was submerged the bridge was submerged. How long was it before she went down completely?
- I could not say.
5030. How long was it after your boat was in the water before she went down, as near as you can fix it?
- How long before?
5031. How long was it after your boat was lowered into the water before the 2.20 hour arrived and the Titanic went down?
- I should say an hour and a half.
5032. You said to your men, "Get out your oars and pull toward the wreck"?
- Yes, sir.
5033. Were not their oars already out?
- There may have been one out, but the others had pulled them in and laid them across the boat. Of course it was that dark I really could not say.
5034. Do you know anything about the speed of the Titanic after 8 p.m. on Sunday?
- No, sir.
5035. You mean you did not make any observations yourself, after that time?
- I was in bed, sir.
5036. (Senator Burton.) In speaking of a change in course, do you not mean a change of direction, as indicated by the points of the compass?
- Yes, sir.
5037. And that follows the track as laid down, in which there are changes in the direction, as indicated by the compass. That is right, is it not?
- Yes.
5038. Now, about that light - a minute or two. You were on the starboard side most of the time?
- Yes; all of the time.
5039. If there had been a light on the port side, you could not have seen it?
- That depends on where it was.
5040. If it was within 5 miles or nearer?
- No; I could not.
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