4466. But you make your calculations in the manner you have described and give that as your best judgment?
- Yes, sir; 21 1/2 knots and 75 revolutions; 75 or 76 revolutions.
4467. After making these observations, what did you do? It was then about 20 minutes to 8.
- After that I started working out the observations.
4468. Where?
- In the chart room; in the chart house.
4469. Who went in with you?
- I was there alone until 8 o'clock.
4470. And you worked out those observations, did you?
- I did not finish them. Mr. Boxhall took on then and finished them.
4471. Did you and he pass any words as to whether you were in accord at that time as to the location and speed of the ship?
- No, sir; we did not.
4472. Did you say anything to him when you left him?
- Yes; I simply said "Here is a bunch of sights for you, old man. Go ahead."
4473. And you went out.
- And I went out; yes, sir.
4474. And, as I understand, you retired to your berth?
- Yes, sir.
4475. And when did you next appear outside of your berth?
- About 10 minutes to 12, or a quarter to 12, sir.
4476. What occasion was there for rising at that time?
- Well, the collision woke me up.
4477. Was there any special impact to awaken you?
- No; there was a sound that I thought seemed like the ship coming to an anchor - the chain running out over the windlass.
4478. Did this impact jar the ship?
- No; it gave just a little vibration. I was about half awake and about half asleep. It did not quite awaken me.
4479. Did you arouse yourself?
- I did, after a little thinking, wondering where we were anchoring.
4480. You lay in bed a while after the impact?
- Oh, yes.
4481. How long?
- Maybe three or four minutes.
4482. Then did you get up and dress?
- No; I got up and walked on deck without dressing.
4483. How far on deck?
- Just went outside of our quarters, had a look around, and could not see anyone.
4484. Where were your quarters; on what deck?
- On the boat deck, close to the bridge.
4485. Close to the bridge?
- Close to the bridge.
4486. Forward?
- Forward, yes.
4487. How far did you walk?
- Just outside the door, I should say 3 or 4 paces across the deck.
4488. What did you do when you got out there; look around?
- Yes. I can describe to you what I did.
4489. Do so, please.
- I had a look around, and I could not see anything, and could not hear any noise, so I went back to the room and sat down and lit my pipe. I thought that nothing had really happened, that perhaps it might have been a dream, or something like that. A few minutes afterwards I thought I had better start dressing, as it was near my watch, so I started dressing, and when I was partly dressed Mr. Boxhall came in and said the mail room - there was water in the mail room. I said, "What happened?" He said, "We struck an iceberg." So I put a coat on and went on deck, and saw the men uncovering the boats and clearing them away. I walked along to the after-end of the boat deck, and met Mr. Moody, the sixth officer. I asked him if he had seen the iceberg. He said no; but he said, "There is some ice on the forward well deck." So, to satisfy my curiosity, I went down there myself.
4490. How far down?
- On the well deck. So I saw a little ice there. I went further, to the forecastle head, to see if there was any damage there. I could not see any at all. On my return, before emerging from under the forecastle head, I saw a crowd of firemen coming out with their bags, bags of clothing. I said, "What is the matter?" They said, "The water is coming in our place." I said, "That is funny." I looked down No. 1 hatch, then, and saw the water flowing over the hatch. I then immediately went to the boat deck, and assisted in getting boats uncovered and ready for swinging out. I stood by No. 5 boat. They would not allow the sailors to get anything, as they thought we should get it again in the morning. In the act of clearing away this boat a man said to me, that was dressed in a dressing gown, with slippers on, he said to me very quietly, "There is no time to waste." I thought he did not know anything about it at all. So we carried on our work in the usual way.
4491. Do you know who that was?
- I did not then.
4492. Do you now?
- I do now.
4493. Who was it?
- Mr. Ismay. I did not know who it was then; I had never seen the man in my life before. So I continued on getting this boat uncovered and swinging out. It struck me at the time the easy way the boat went out, the great improvement the modern davits were on the old-fashioned davits. I had about five or six men there, and the boat was out in about two minutes.
4494. You are referring now to No. 5 boat?
- No.5 boat.
4495. The boat at your station?
- At my station; yes. The boat went out in two or three minutes. I thought what a jolly fine idea they were, because with the old-fashioned davits it would require about a dozen men to lift her, a dozen men at each end. I got her overboard all right, and lowered level with the rail.
4496. You lowered her level with the rail of the boat deck?
- Of the boat deck; yes. Then this man in the dressing gown said we had better get her loaded with women and children. So I said, "I await the commander's orders," to which he replied, "Very well," or something like that. It then dawned on me that it might be Mr. Ismay, judging by the description I had had given me. So I went along to the bridge and saw Capt. Smith, and I told him that I thought it was Mr. Ismay that wished me to get the boat away, with women and children in it. So he said, "Go ahead; carry on." I came along and brought in my boat. I stood on it and said, "Come along, ladies." There was a big crowd. Mr. Ismay helped to get them along; assisted in every way. We got the boat nearly full, and I shouted out for any more ladies.
4497. You shouted?
- I shouted. None were to be seen. So I allowed a few men to get into it. Then I jumped on the ship again. So Murdoch said, "You go in charge of this boat."
4498. Murdoch said that to you?
- Yes; he said, "You go away in this boat, old man, and hang around the after gangway." I did not like the idea of going away at all, because I thought I was better off on the ship.
4499. That is, these passengers thought so or you thought so?
- I thought so.
4500. You thought they were better off on the ship?
- I thought I was.
4501. That you were better off on the ship?
- Sure.
4502. Were the passengers reluctant to get into this boat?
- Oh, no; I filled my boat fairly easily.
4503. How many? Just go right ahead.
- About 40.
4504. Were there about 40?
- Yes, sir.
4505. How many men and how many women? Just tell it in your own way.
- I should say about half a dozen men there; there would not have been so many men there, had there been any women around, but there were none. So Murdoch told me. He said, "You go ahead in this boat, and hand [hang] around the after gangway." He shook hands with me and said, "Good-by; good luck;" and I said, "Lower away."
4506. Murdoch did?
- Murdoch shook hands good-by, and said, "Good luck to you."
4507. Did you ever see him after that?
- Never. We then cast the boat off and pulled away some safe distance from the ship. It was not for an hour that I realized she would go - an hour after we got into the water. I quite thought we would have to return to the ship again, perhaps at daylight. My idea was that if any wind sprang up we should drift away from the ship and have a job to get back again.
4508. This boat was the first lifeboat lowered?
- Oh, no, it was the second one; the second one on the starboard side.
4509. And had you seen the first one lowered?
- Yes; it was the next boat to me.
4510. You saw that lowered?
- I saw that lowered, yes.
4511. Was it filled from the boat deck?
- Every boat, as far as I know, was filled from the boat deck.
4512. Is that customary?
- Well, to put a certain amount in, yes.
4513. Does not that give the passengers on the boat deck a decided advantage in the escape from danger?
- I had some saloon passengers, of the second class.
4514. What is that?
- I do not think it does.
4515. I simply wanted your judgment. Who were the men in No.5 lifeboat, beside yourself?
- What do you mean; of the crew?
4516. Yes; men, whoever they were; crew or passengers.
- Five of the crew, and there may have been five or six passengers - male passengers.
4517. And the balance were -
- Women and children.
4518. Do you know any of those people?
- I know them by name, now; I did not know them previously.
4519. Do you know the names of the members of the crew who were in this boat?
- I have them somewhere, but I can not remember them just now.
4520. Did you hear the second officer's [Lightoller] testimony regarding the manning of the lifeboats on the port side?
- No, sir; I did not hear any of his testimony.
4521. Did you have any direction over the number of people who were put into that lifeboat?
- Well, not at the end, I did not, because Mr. Murdoch was there and he was the senior officer. It was for him to decide.
4522. Mr. Lightoller, who had charge of the loading of the boats on the port side, has said that he put only two of the crew into the lifeboats he loaded. How did it happen that you had so many of the crew?
- I thought I had only four at the time.
4523. You thought you had four?
- Four.
4524. But you discovered you had more than that?
- I did not discover I had five until some time on the Carpathia, during the trip on the Carpathia.
4525. Were there five with yourself?
- No; six.
4526. Six with yourself. Then, as a matter of fact, there were six of the crew, officers and crew, in No.5 boat?
- In No.5 boat, yes.
4527. Can you give us the names of the six?
- I can not just now, sir. I can get them for you.
4528. Did they all survive until they reached the Carpathia?
- Oh, yes, sir.
4529. (Senator Fletcher) Let him give them as near as he can; let him describe them.
- I can not give the names.
4530. Officers or common sailors or what? Can you give their names?
- There were one sailor, two firemen, two stewards, and myself. No, I have not got their names.
4531. (Senator Smith) Besides those you had about 30 passengers?
- I had about 40 passengers.
4532. Besides the crew?
- Yes.
4533. This was a large lifeboat, was it?
- Yes, sir.
4534. Was that lifeboat equipped with food?
- Yes; it had biscuits and water in it.
4535. Did you have occasion to use either?
- No.
4536. How do you know they were in; did you see them?
- They were put there in Southampton; and we also went through all the boats on the Carpathia.
4537. Did you find that to be the case?
- That they were full. The boats had bread and water.
4538. Did you have any lights on No.5 lifeboat?
- I did not have a light in my boat; no.
4539. Do you know of any boats that did have lights on them?
- Yes there were several of them that had.
4540. But they did not all have lights?
- No.
4541. Do the regulations of the British Board of Trade prescribe lights?
- Yes; sir.
4542. You say you got into this boat and it was lowered and you were told to go?
- To stand by the after gangway.
4543. Did you do it?
- I did it as near as possible. I kept within a safe distance of the ship, if anything did happen.
4544. You kept far enough away so that if anything happened you would not be involved in it? Is that the idea?
- Exactly.
4545. What did you expect to happen?
- I thought she still had about three of the compartments and still would remain afloat.
4546. And if she did not float and went down, were you expecting a suction that would draw the lifeboats down?
- Well, yes; I thought we might get into a bit of a wash.
4547. And that you were seeking to avoid?
- Seeking to avoid; yes.
4548. Did any persons, men, women, or children, attempt to get into your lifeboat in the water?
- No.
4549. Did any attempt to get out of it?
- None whatever, sir; and I had no trouble whatever with my boat. The women all behaved admirably.
4550. Did any of the women pull on the oars, or handle the tiller?
- No, sir; although they wanted to.
4551. Row?
- Yes; to keep themselves warm.
4552. It was very cold that morning?
- It was chilly; yes.
4553. Zero weather?
- Oh, no.
4554. How cold was it?
- It may have been 40 - 35 to 40.
4555. Did you ever return to the side of the Titanic?
- No; we did not.
4556. Did you see the Titanic go down?
- Yes, sir.
4557. Describe, if you can, how she sank?
- Judging by what I could see from a distance, she gradually disappeared until the forecastle head was submerged to the bridge. Then she turned right on end and went down perpendicularly.
4558. At about what angle?
- She went straight.
4559. Right straight down?
- Absolutely. That was the last I saw of her.
4560. Did she seem to be broken in two.
- Oh, no.
4561. Or was she entirely intact? Did you hear any explosions?
- Yes; four reports.
4562. What kind of reports?
- They sounded like the reports of a big gun in the distance.
4563. What did you assume they were?
- I assumed it was bulkheads going, myself.
4564. Did you hear anything like boiler explosions?
- Yes; I heard a lot of people say that; but I have my doubts about that. I do not see why the boilers should burst because there was no steam there. They should have been stopped about two hours and a half. The fires had not been fed, so there was very little steam there.
4565. Are we to understand that you do not believe that boilers exploded?
- I do not believe it.
4566. And from the distance you were from the ship, you would have known it if that had occurred?
- I think so.
4567. As the ship went down, what did you observe on the afterdeck or decks?
- I could not see that, sir.
4568. You could not see the people?
- Oh, no.
4569. From what you saw of the people aboard this ship when you went down and after you got to the water, and when you went around close to the stern of the ship, were they fitted with lifebelts?
- Everyone I saw before I left the ship had a lifebelt on.
4570. Did you see anyone without a lifebelt?
- There may have been a stray one of the crew without one.
4571. But that was a rare thing?
- Yes. I did not have one myself; I did not want it.
4572. How long before going down were there explosions or noises?
- Not until she was submerged.
4573. Not until she was entirely submerged?
- Yes.
4574. The after part of the ship as well as the forward part?
- Yes; the whole of her.
4575. She had gone under water before these explosions were heard?
- Yes, sir.
4576. And you are quite sure that the explosions you heard came from the ship?
- Oh, yes; perfectly sure.
4577. When did you last see the captain?
- When I went to the bridge and asked him if I should fill No.5 boat with women and get her away.
4578. What did he tell you?
- "Carry on," or words to that effect.
4579. Did you ever see him again?
- No, sir.
4580. Was he visible when the boat went down?
- I was not there to the last, sir.
4581. You were unable to see from your point of view?
- Yes, sir.
4582. When you shook hands with Murdoch and bade him good bye, did you ever expect to see him again?
- Certainly; I did.
4583. Do you think, from his manner, he ever expected to see you again?
- Apparently not. I expected to get back to the ship again, perhaps two or three hours afterwards.
4584. But he, from his manner, did not expect that?
- Apparently not.
4585. Did you take leave of any other officers in a similar way?
- No. I did not, sir.
4586. When you were passing from the side of the Titanic to the Carpathia, did you see any people in the water - men, women, or children?
- None, sir.
4587. When you went around the after part of the ship?
- After? I did not go around the stern.
4588. You did not go back there?
- No.
4589. What did Murdoch tell you to go back there for? Do you know?
- Just to be handy, I suppose.
4590. To be handy to pickup?
- To pick up again; to pick the boat up again.
4591. And you saw no people in the water?
- None, sir.
4592. Did you hear any cries of distress?
- Oh, yes.
4593. What were they, cries for help?
- Crying, shouting, moaning.
4594. From the ship, or from the water?
- From the water, after the ship disappeared; no noises before.
4595. There were no noises from the ship's crew, or officers, or passengers, just preceding the sinking?
- None.
4596. Immediately following the sinking of the ship you heard these cries of distress?
- Yes.
4597. But, as I understand you, you were not in close proximity to those who were uttering the cries?
- I may have been three of four hundred yards away; four or five hundred yards away.
4598. Did you attempt to get near them?
- As soon as she disappeared I said, "Now, men, we will pull toward the wreck." Everyone in my boat said it was a mad idea, because we had far better save what few we had in my boat than go back to the scene of the wreck and be swamped by the crowds that were there.
4599. As a matter of fact, do you not know your boat would have accommodated 20 or 25 more people?
- My boat would have accommodated a few more, yes; certainly.
4600. According to the testimony of your fellow officers -
- My boat would have held more.
4601. (continuing). Your boat would have held about 60 or 65 people.
- About 60.
4602. Tell us about your fellow passengers on that lifeboat. You say they discouraged you from returning or going in the direction of these cries?
- They did. I told my men to get their oars out, and pull toward the wreck - the scene of the wreck.
4603. Yes.
- I said, "We may be able to pick up a few more."
4604. Who demurred to that?
- The whole crowd in my boat. A great number of them did.
4605. Women?
- I could not discriminate whether women or men. They said it was rather a mad idea.
4606. I ask you if any woman in your boat appealed to you to return to the direction from which the cries came?
- No one.
4607. You say that no woman passenger in your boat urged you to return?
- None.
Mr. Burlingham:
It would have capsized the boat, Senator.
4608. Pardon me, I am not drawing any unfair conclusion from this. One of the officers told us that a woman in his boat urged him to return to the side of the ship. I want to be very sure that this officer heard no woman asking the same thing. (To the witness.) Who demurred, now, that you can specifically recall?
- I could not name any one in particular.
4609. The men with the oars?
- No. They did not; no. They started to obey my orders.
4610. You were in command. They ought to have obeyed your orders?
- So they did.
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