(Testimony taken separately before Senator Newlands on behalf of the subcommittee.)
(The witness was sworn by Senator Newlands.)
8764. State your age and residence?
- Fifty-one years old; Graham Road, Southampton.
8765. What is your occupation?
- Able seaman, sir.
8766. State what drills if any there were, when you got on the Titanic, or the ship's crew, what their character was, and what occurred of any significance during your trip from Southampton to the point of the collision.
- We joined the ship on Wednesday morning, the 10th of April, and had boat drill and proceeded at 12 o'clock. We called at Cherbourg and Queenstown.
8767. How many participated in that boat drill; how many men took part in that boat drill?
- All the able seaman, sir.
8768. How many were there?
- I could not say the exact number, but about 30 to 40.
8769. How many boats did you have out?
- We lowered two boats in the water.
8770. Go on.
- On a Sunday it came in rather cold, Sunday afternoon. Sunday night about a quarter to 12 I was on the watch below and turned in, and there was suddenly a noise like a cable running out, like a ship dropping anchor. There was not any shock at all. About 10 minutes to 12 the boatswain came and piped all hands on the boat deck, and started to get out boats.
8771. What did that mean, that the entire crew was to go up on the boat deck?
- All the able seamen.
8772. Would that include firemen?
- It had nothing to do with firemen; only the two watches, the port and starboard watches.
8773. How many were there of them, about 40?
- No; 13 in one watch and 12 in the other. Then there was a man who used to work in the alleyway, and there were promenade daymen, saloon daymen, and second class daymen.
8774. How many in all?
- How many able seamen?
8775. Yes.
- There were 6 quartermasters, 6 lookout men, 13 in the port watch, 12 in the starboard watch, and 7 day hands.
8776. Do those men constitute the crews of the boats in case of an emergency?
- Yes, sir.
8777. Are any others included?
- Yes, sir.
8778. Who are the others?
- In emergency?
8779. Yes; are they the only men who are expected to report when there is a call for the boats?
- When there is an order, "Boat stations," everyone goes to boat stations - firemen, stewards, and all are called. There is a list showing where each man is to go. Every man in the ship has a fire station and a boat station. But in case of emergency, where there is a man overboard or anything like that, it is only the watch on deck, the boat's crew, that is called.
8780. What was the call on this occasion, simply for the boat's crew?
- So far as I can say, all the seamen from the forecastle were ordered up to clear away the boats and to take off the boat covers.
8781. That would mean about 40 men would have to go up there?
- Yes, sir.
8782. Were any others expected to go up there on that call - firemen or stewards?
- I can not answer for those; they do not come under our department.
8783. Very well. When this call came, do you think the 40 men were there?
- Oh, yes; they all went on the boat deck.
8784. If there were 20 boats, that would make about two men to a boat?
- Yes, sir.
8785. Is that considered sufficient?
- That is the rule generally, sir; two seamen to each boat.
8786. Very well. Go on and tell what happened.
- I went on the starboard side of the boat deck and helped clear the boats; swung three of the boats out; helped to lower No. 5 and No. 7. When we swung No. 3 out, I was told to jump in the boat and pass the ladies in. I was told that by the first officer. After we got so many ladies in, and there were no more about, we took in men passengers. We had 32 in the boat, all told, and then we lowered away.
8787. How many of those 32 were men and how many women?
- I could not say how many were women.
8788. Can you tell how many men there were?
- No, sir; I could not say exactly.
8789. How many seamen were in the boat?
- Two seamen were in the boat.
8790. Do you recall whether there were five or six men passengers besides?
- Yes; there were a few men passengers; and there were some firemen in the boat.
8791. How many firemen?
- I should say there were five or six firemen.
8792. How did they get in the boat?
- After all the ladies and children that were about there got in, I suppose anyone jumped in, then.
8793. What officer was there?
- The first officer, Mr. Murdoch.
8794. Did he tell these men to go in?
- No, sir; he never told them. He got all the women and children in, and the men started to jump in; and when we thought we had a boat full there, we lowered away.
8795. You think there were five or six firemen in the boat, do you?
- Yes; I am sure of that.
8796. Were there any stewards?
- No; not one steward.
8797. Were there any engineers?
- No; no engineers.
8798. Any stewardesses?
- No, sir.
8799. What officer did you have in the boat?
- No officer at all, sir.
8800. Who took charge of the boat?
- I took charge of the boat.
8801. You had the tiller?
- Yes, sir.
8802. Why did you not take more than 32 in that boat?
- That is not up to me, sir; that was for the officer on top.
8803. Did you not think at the time that it ought to have been more heavily loaded?
- It seemed pretty full, but I dare say we could have jammed more in. The passengers were not anxious to get in the boats; they were not anxious to get in the first lot of boats.
8804. What was your feeling at the time?
- I thought, myself, that there was nothing serious the matter until we got away from the ship and she started settling down.
8805. You would have been as well pleased to have stayed on the ship as to get on the lifeboat?
- I would at that time, sir.
8806. How soon after getting in the water did you see that the ship was sinking?
- After we pulled a distance away, sir, you could see her head gradually going down.
8807. Where were the most of the passengers on the ship at the time you left the ship and when you could see the passengers?
- When we started lowering the boats all I saw was first class ladies and gentlemen all lined up with their lifebelts on and coming out of the saloon. I could not say what was on the after part of the ship at all. There was a lot of space between the boats.
8808. Where were the steerage passengers, do you think?
- I could not answer that. I should say that they were making for the boat deck as well.
8809. There was nothing to prevent them from coming up to any part of the ship, was there?
- No, sir.
8810. Did they show any disorder?
- No, sir.
8811. Was it your view that the ship was an unsinkable ship?
- That was the talk.
8812. Was that the general idea of the crew on the ship?
- Yes, sir.
8813. You knew that there were not enough boats to accommodate the entire crew and the passenger list?
- I knew there were only 20 boats, and I knew they would not carry all the people.
8814. How many did you estimate a boat ought to carry?
- Fifty or sixty in a boat.
8815. And 50 in a boat would make 1,000, and 60 in a boat would make 1,200?
- Yes, sir.
8816. So all the crew knew that the boats were not sufficient to carry all the passengers and crew off?
- I suppose they did, sir.
8817. But they regarded the ship as unsinkable?
- Yes, sir.
8818. Who was the officer in charge on the starboard side, where you loaded these boats?
- Mr. Murdoch was one. He was the only one I recognized.
8819. Did you know Mr. Ismay?
- No, sir.
8820. He was not pointed out to you?
- No, sir.
8821. Do you know any of the passengers on the ship by name?
- No, sir.
8822. Did all the women who went on your boat go there willingly, or were some of them forced on?
- They were not forced on at all. They all went of their own will.
8823. Did any of the ladies on your boat come back to the ship after being put into the lifeboat?
- Oh, no; we got clear of the ship as soon as we were lowered in the water.
8824. Did you take any passengers on your boat in the water?
- No, sir.
8825. How far were you from the ship when it sank?
- I should say just over a quarter of a mile, sir.
8826. You heard the cries of the people in the water, did you not?
- Yes, sir; everybody heard that, sir.
8827. Did you see the ship go down?
- Yes, sir.
8828. What was the appearance of the ship at that point of time?
- I saw the forward part of her go down, and it appeared to me as if she broke in half, and then the after part went. I can remember two explosions.
8829. Did your boat make any effort to go back?
- No, sir.
8830. Why not?
- All the people in the boat wanted to get clear of the ship. They did not want to go near her. They kept urging me to keep away; to pull away from her. In fact, they wanted to get farther away.
8831. Did you make any effort to go back to the ship?
- No, sir.
8832. Why did you not go back and attempt to rescue some of the people who were sinking?
- Well, sir, we were about a quarter of a mile away, and the cries did not last long. I do not think anybody could live much more than 10 minutes in that cold water. If we had gone back, we would only have had the boat swamped.
8833. Do you think it would have been swamped?
- Yes; if there were any alive. Five or six pulling on that boat's gunwales would no doubt have capsized the boat.
8834. How long have you been at sea?
- Seventeen years, sir.
8835. Have you seen ice frequently?
- No, sir. I do not generally come this way in the wintertime. I go on the Bombay route.
8836. Have you ever seen ice before?
- Oh, yes; I have seen ice before.
8837. do you know whether it is customary for ships to slow down when they know that ice is in the vicinity, or do they keep on, relying upon their ability to steer clear?
- I think they go more to the southward when there is ice.
8838. How about slowing down?
- I could not answer as to that.
8839. What did you row for? To what point did you row, or in what direction?
- We started to pull away in the boat. There was one bright light away on the starboard bow, 2 or 3 miles away, I should judge.
8840. And you rowed for that light?
- Yes sir. While we were rowing we came on small ice; you could see small ice in the distance.
8841. That night; before dawn?
- Yes; we got away from it.
8842. You were surrounded by ice at dawn, were you not?
- Yes, at dawn.
8843. Is it your idea that when the ship struck it was near all this ice at that time?
- I could not say that, sir.
8844. When you looked out that night after you struck, did you see any iceberg?
- I never saw any ice at all until after we got away in the boat.
8845. Did you see very much then?
- No, sir; it did not look like much.
8846. Was it high?
- No, sir; it was low.
8847. But the ice you saw in the morning was high?
- Yes. There was ice all around in the morning.
8848. Was it your idea that that ice had floated down in your direction, or did you think you had floated down into it?
- I believe the ice we saw in the morning was to the northward of where the Titanic had gone down.
8849. Do you think that ice had been to the northward of the Titanic?
- Yes, sir.
8850. And was slowly coming down?
- Yes. There were lots of bergs around, and there was a great field of ice, I should say between 20 and 30 miles long.
8851. Solid ice?
- Yes. The stretch of ice was very low, but there were also big bergs.
8852. Would it have been possible for a ship to make its way among that ice?
- No, sir.
8853. It would have had to avoid it altogether?
- Yes, sir.
8854. Did the Carpathia have to exercise much care in getting out of the ice?
- When we went aboard the Carpathia there was ice all around, and I believe after I got aboard we had to steam all around it.
8855. And was the ice to the northward of you then?
- I could not say, because I never knew the direction the ship's head was.
8856. Well, the ship soon took a direction toward the southwest, did it not?
- I could not say.
8857. It must have done so in order to go to New York.
- I should say it went to the westward, sir.
8858. Then, were these icebergs to the north of your ship at that time, or the south?
- I could not say. I do not know what the direction of the ship was when she started steaming away.
8859. Take that entire crew. Do you think that entire crew was able to work together as well as if that ship had been running for six months or a year?
- Yes, sir. I think they were all trained men, sir. They were all able seamen.
8860. And they knew their business?
- Yes, sir.
8861. do you think they could work together with the same effectiveness -
- Yes, sir.
8862. There were about 750, crew and passengers, saved, and your boats were able to accommodate about 50 per boat, which would make 1,000, or, at the rate of 60, 1,200. How do you account for it that more were not saved?
- Well, I should say that in the first lot of boats that went away people were not eager to get in them. All the people around about were put in the boat and they were lowered away, sir.
8863. Were they urged to go in the boat?
- They were told to come along and jump in, ladies and children first.
8864. When there were no more ladies and children, were the men urged to get in?
- Anyone could jump in then, as far as I know, to fill the boat up, to get it away.
8865. How many could you safely lower to the water, 70 feet below, in one of those boats; what would you regard as a wise method of loading those boats from the boat deck?
- I should say from 30 to 40 people.
8866. And then you would expect to take on more when the boat got in the water?
- We could have taken more, sir.
8867. Did you wait there at all, for people to offer themselves, when you got down to the water?
- No; we were told to go clear of the ship.
8868. Were you given any instruction to pull in any particular direction?
- No, sir. I think everyone pulled toward this white light.
8869. What did you think that light was at the time?
- I thought it was a fisherman. That is what I thought. It was only just one single light.
8870. Did that light disappear?
- We kept pulling for it until daylight, and we could not see a thing of it then.
8871. Did you have this light in view all the time while you were pulling at the oars?
- Yes, sir.
8872. How far do you think you pulled from the point where the ship went down?
- I could hardly say.
8873. Do you suppose you pulled as far as 10 miles?
- No, sir. We were going against the current.
8874. Was there a current?
- I should say so, sir. We kept the boat's head to the wind. We kept going toward this white light.
8875. You were sure that the light was there?
- Yes, sir.
8876. It was a genuine light, you think?
- Yes; one bright light.
8877. There were 750 saved, in all, and of them 210 belonged to the crew, and of the 210 about 15 were women, stewardesses. How do you account for the fact that such a large proportion of those people saved belonged to the crew?
- I can only account for the seamen being saved, two in each boat. That would number just about the number of seamen who were saved.
8878. That would be about 40?
- Yes; I think there were 39 saved.
8879. How do you account for the 79 or 80 firemen being saved?
- I could not answer as to that.
8880. Did they rush into the boats?
- I do not think there was any rush at all, sir. I think a few were picked up in the water.
(Witness excused.)
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