(The witness was sworn by Senator Newlands.)
8881. Where do you live?
- 68 Nessfield Street, Liverpool, England.
8882. What is your occupation?
- Seaman.
8883. Were you one of the boats' crew on the Titanic?
- Yes sir.
8884. Did you have any drill of the boats' crew?
- Oh, yes.
8885. On the Titanic?
- Yes, sir.
8886. When?
- Before leaving Southampton, sir.
8887. How often is it customary to have a drill of the boats' crew?
- Every Sunday at sea, sir; and every time before we start, sailing from port.
8888. Why did you not have it on Sunday on this trip?
- I am sure I could not tell you, sir.
8889. When you had this drill, were all the 40 or more seamen in the drill?
- Oh, yes, sir; everybody was there, I suppose.
8890. You had out only two boats, did you not?
- Yes, sir; leaving Southampton.
8891. The Titanic's crew was taken off from a lot of other ships, was it not?
- I believe so; yes, sir.
8892. Had many of them been working together before?
- I know I had been shipmate with a few of them before.
8893. Do you think the crew were as well trained in their duties as they would have been if that ship had been in service for six months longer, at the end of that time?
- Oh, yes; we had a good crew.
8894. Experienced men?
- Yes, sir.
8895. Was that true of the firemen as well as the seamen?
- Yes, sir; I knew a lot of the firemen.
8896. It was a good crew?
- Oh, yes.
8897. Do you think they could work together, in case of trouble, just about as well as any other crew?
- Oh, yes, sir.
8898. Had you ever experienced ice before?
- No, sir; the last iceberg I saw was about six years ago.
8899. Had you been accustomed to taking this trip before?
- Yes, sir; I had been on the Majestic. I ran for six years without missing one trip across, on her.
8900. And you only saw one iceberg during that time?
- Yes, sir.
8901. What is the custom of the ship when ice is reported; do they generally slow down the ship or do they rely upon seeing the ice and steering clear of it?
- I could not tell you that. That is the only one I saw, sir.
8902. And you had been on this course how many years?
- About seven years altogether.
8903. And you never saw but one iceberg before?
- That is all.
8904. Was that a large one?
- A very large one.
8905. Where did you see it?
- Above the Newfoundland Banks.
8906. At about the same time of the year?
- Yes; about the same time of the year. We could feel it hours before we saw it, it was that cold.
8907. Did you feel the cold on this occasion?
- No, sir; not very much. It was cold, I thought.
8908. But it was not any colder than you would expect ordinarily, even without icebergs?
- No, sir; it was not that cold.
8909. Well, was it as cold as it was upon this other occasion that you speak of?
- No; not half as cold, because at that time I was on the lookout in the crow's nest, and I could feel it a long time before I could see it. It was in the daytime.
8910. Were you one of the lookouts?
- Not on the Titanic; no, sir.
8911. When you have been acting as lookout, have you been accustomed to use glasses?
- Yes, sir; I have always seen them in the crow's nest.
8912. When you were a lookout, were you accustomed to use the glasses?
- Oh, yes, sir.
8913. Were they much of a help?
- Not much of a help to pick anything up; but to make it out afterwards, they were.
8914. You would first have to pick it up, and then make sure of it by looking through the glasses?
- Yes, sir.
8915. Were these glasses as useful at night as they were in the daytime?
- No, sir.
8916. You could not see with the same clearness?
- No, sir.
8917. Were they of any use at night?
- No, sir; not of any use at all.
8918. You would rather trust to your eyes at night than trust to the glasses?
- Yes, sir.
8919. Have you ever known a crow's nest to be without glasses?
- No, sir. We always used to go to the office and get them when we left the port, take them into the crow's nest, and then upon arriving at port again, take them into the office. I never saw a crow's nest without glasses.
8920. Were they always in the crow's nest?
- No; we would go to the office for them. There is no place to keep them in the crow's nest. Somebody might steal them there, and so we would take them to the office.
8921. And they would remain, then, in the crow's nest during the trip?
- Yes, sir.
8922. How many years were you a lookout?
- About 12 months in the Majestic, and I was on the Oceanic before I joined this ship, on the lookout on the Oceanic.
8923. Is that a very trying position?
- Oh, yes, we have to pass an examination for it.
8924. You have an examination for it, a test of your eyes?
- Yes; by the board of trade.
8925. I suppose you get the practice from experience?
- Yes, sir.
8926. Did you ever know a man to go to sleep when on the lookout?
- Oh, no.
8927. Are there generally two together, or only one?
- Two together.
8928. When they speak of doubling the lookout, what do they mean?
- That is, we look out on the forecastle head.
8929. Where is that?
- That is at the bow of the ship.
8930. Is that a better place for it then the other?
- They generally put a man there when it is too foggy; an extra lookout.
8931. Would they put a man there on such a night as the night when this collision occurred?
- No, sir.
8932. Do they generally put an extra lookout on the forecastle?
- On the forecastle head; yes, sir. When it is calm weather, in a fog, you can go out on the forecastle head, but when it is rough, a man can not stay there, because the ship is taking too much sea. Then he is sent up on the bridge to keep a watch out.
8933. Was that night such a night as to require an extra lookout?
- Oh, no.
8934. Do they have only one man on the forecastle head?
- One man.
8935. Then, in addition to that, they have the two in the crow's nest?
- Yes, sir.
8936. How far is the crow's next from the forecastle head?
- It would vary according to the size of the ship.
8937. I am referring to the Titanic.
- I could not tell you. I was never in the crow's nest there.
8938. So you suppose it would be a hundred feet?
- Yes, sir. It is higher up than the bridge.
8939. I mean, from the crow's nest to the forecastle deck is how far?
- I could not tell you the distance exactly.
8940. State what occurred on the night of the collision. State where you were when you felt the collision.
- I was sitting in the forecastle. I heard something, just the same as a ship going through a lot of loose ice; and everybody ran on deck right away. When we went on deck we could see some ice on the deck. Then I went forward, and I could see a lot of the firemen coming up out of the forecastle; and I looked down below, and I heard a rush of water. I went down below, in No. 1, and I could see the tarpaulin of the hatch lifting up the same as if there was air coming up there; and I went on deck then, and I could see all the firemen coming up from there. As soon as I went on deck somebody gave the order, "All hands on the bridge." I went up there, and then we were given orders to get the boats ready.
I got the collapsible boat on the port side ready. I got my own boat, No. 8, ready. An officer sent me for a lamp, and as I was going forward there was a man coming with two or there lamps in his hand. I went back again, and this No. 8 boat was there, all swung out, and there were about 35 ladies in it. I jumped in the boat. The captain asked me was the plug in the boat, and I answered, "Yes, sir." "All right," he said, "Any more ladies?" There was one lady came there and left her husband, She wanted her husband to go with her, but he backed away, and the captain shouted again - in fact, twice again - "Any more ladies?" There were no more there, and he lowered away.
8941. Did this lady get in?
- Yes, her and a little girl. I don't know who she was. I don't know her name. He told me to row for the light, and land the passengers and return to the ship. I pulled for the light, and I found that I could not get near the light, and I stood by for a little while. I wanted to return to the ship, but the ladies were frightened, and I had to carry out the captain's orders and pull for that light; so I did so. I pulled for about two hours, and then it started to get daybreak, and we lost the light; and then all of a sudden we saw the Carpathia coming, and we turned right back and made for the Carpathia. That is all I know, sir.
8942. Who was the officer on the port side who gave you your directions?
- The captain.
8943. The captain himself?
- Yes, sir.
8944. How many, in all, were there in your boat?
- I had 35 ladies and one sailor besides myself, and two stewards?
8945. Why did you not take more on?
- I don't know, sir. There were no more women to come in, they would not leave.
8946. Then why did you not take some men?
- That is what it was; there was nobody ready to come in the boat, and they started lowering it down.
8947. Did any men offer to get in the boat?
- No, sir.
8948. How many men do you regard it as safe to load in a boat of that kind from the upper deck, the boat deck?
- According to what sort of falls there are. With good ropes you could take 50 or more.
8949. Fifty or more people?
- Yes.
8950. Would there be any danger of the boats buckling?
- Oh, no, sir.
8951. And you think you could have taken in 50?
- Easy enough, sir.
8952. Those boats are supposed to accommodate 60, are they not?
- Yes, sir.
8953. Or 65?
- Yes, sir.
8954. Would that crowd them?
- Oh, no. They were floating quite light, with what we had aboard.
8955. After you got down to the water's edge, how do you account for the fact that more men were not put in, more passengers?
- If they had been down there we could have taken them.
8956. As you passed down from the boat deck, were there any open decks there from which you could have taken passengers?
- No, sir; all the windows were closed.
8957. There were no windows on deck A, were there?
- I do not know what they call the different decks. There were big square windows, but where we went down, there were rooms there.
8958. Did you go down from the boat deck?
- Yes, sir.
8959. And the passengers got on there?
- Yes; right from the boat deck.
8960. When your boat left, were there many women and children left on the ship?
- I did not see any children, and very few women. There was an old lady there and an old gentleman, and she would not come in the boat.
8961. Had she got in the boat?
- No; she would not come near the boat.
8962. What did she say?
- She never said anything. If she said anything we could not hear it because the steam was blowing so and making such a noise.
8963. There was a great deal of noise?
- Oh, yes.
8964. Did you see the first officer there?
- Yes, sir; I saw him running around there.
8965. Who was he?
- I do not know his name. There was the chief officer and the first officer. I had never been with these people before. Mr. Wilde was the chief officer.
8966. Did you know Mr. Ismay?
- No, sir.
8967. Did you see him?
- No, sir.
8968. When you got on the boat did you think the ship was sinking?
- No, sir; I would not believe it.
8969. You thought the ship was unsinkable, did you?
- Yes, sir; I thought so.
8970. Was that the view of the crew, generally?
- Yes, sir.
8971. Did you think at that time it would be as safe to stay on the ship as to go in the boat?
- I thought they were only sending us away for an hour or so, until they got squared up again.
8972. Until they got what?
- Until they got her pumped out.
8973. Can you give me the names of any passengers on your boat?
- One lady. She had a lot to say, and I put her to steering my boat.
8974. What was her name?
- Lady Rothe. She was a countess or something.
8975. Was her husband on the boat?
- No; I believe her husband was in New York.
8976. Do you know the name of any other passengers?
- No, sir.
8977. Do you know the man who was the lookout?
- No, sir; I only knew him by sight.
8978. There were 750 people saved in all, and of them about 210 belonged to the crew and 15 of them were stewardesses. How do you account for so large a number of the crew being saved as compared with the number of passengers?
- I could not explain that, sir.
8979. You saw no men throw themselves from the ship?
- No, sir.
8980. Can you tell me anything that indicated that the crew of the ship felt that the ship would not sink?
- Yes, sir. The firemen brought up their bundles, not because they thought the boat was going to sink, but because they wanted to take them out of the water, as the water was coming in.
8981. They were confident that the ship would not go down?
- Yes, sir; the last I saw of them they thought so - that it would not sink.
8982. And about how many boats were left on the port side when you got on your boat?
- Two more after my boat, on my side.
8983. Just as soon as you got to the water, did you realize that it was a serious matter, then?
- No, sir; I did not.
8984. Did you not see then that the boat was sinking by the bow?
- When I saw the water coming up to the forecastle head I made sure she was going down, or something was going to happen.
8985. Did you yourself feel that the ship was in danger?
- I felt so then; I did not believe it before.
8986. You saw that at the very first, did you not, after you got out in the lifeboat?
- No; she took a long time before the water got there.
8987. That was when you were in your boat?
- Yes; after we went away from the ship.
8988. Is there anything else you would like to say in regard to the matter?
- No; I think not, sir; I have nothing more to say.
(Witness excused.)
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