10682. And capsizing?
- No, sir; she was swamped. She was up out of the water, but she was swamped.
10683. The people were taken out of that boat [Collapsible A]?
- Into our boat.
10684. Into your boat?
- Yes.
10685. Including one woman, and all the balance were men?
- Yes, sir; the remainder of them were men.
10686. Were those men seamen?
- No, sir; I never saw any seamen there. There were firemen and passengers.
10687. Firemen and passengers?
- Yes.
10688. How many passengers were there?
- There were one or two firemen I recognized, and some of them might have been firemen, and I did not know them, sir.
10689. Would you say the largest proportion of those in that boat which was swamped were passengers, or members of the crew of the Titanic?
- The majority of them were passengers.
10690. How many were passengers; half of them?
- About eight of the dozen, I should think, sir, and this one woman. [Rhoda Abbott]
10691. I do not think I have yet got the number of that swamped boat. Do you know what the number of it was?
- No, sir.
10692. It was a collapsible boat, but what was the number of it?
- No, sir; I could not give you the number of it.
10693. After you took these four people into boat No. 14 from the water, what did you do?
- I had a thorough good look around everywhere in the wreckage.
10694. To see if you could see any life?
- To see if I could see any live ones, any live bodies.
10695. Did you see any alive?
- No, sir.
10696. A good many dead?
- Yes.
10697. Did you see any women dead in the water?
- No, sir; mostly men.
10698. Was it daylight at this time?
- Just breaking daylight.
10699. Did you have a lamp in your boat?
- No, sir.
10700. Was there a lamp in boat No. 14?
- No, sir.
10701. Or a lamp in No. 10 boat?
- No, sir.
10702. When you found there were no live persons whom you could rescue, why did you not take some of the dead ones aboard? You had lots of room.
- That lay with the officer. [Fifth Officer Lowe]
10703. And what did he say about it?
- He did not pass any remark at all, sir. He said, "Have a good look around, and see if you can see anybody alive, at all."
10704. And when you did find anybody alive, what did the officer say?
- The officer said, "Hoist the sail forward." I did so, and made sail.
10705. Hoist the sail forward?
- Yes; on the foremast; and we altered the course into the direction of this collapsible boat which had been swamped. On the way down we picked up another collapsible that had some women and children in it, and took her in tow, and then we sailed to this sinking boat.
10706. What did you go out to the sinking boat for? There was nobody on it?
- It was a boat that was swamped.
10707. Yes; but you had taken the people off of that before.
- No; we took this other boat in tow before we went to the boat that was swamped. We picked her up on our way down toward the boat that was swamped.
10708. This boat that was swamped you went to after you had been around the wreck?
- Yes; we came from the wreck direct in the direction of this boat that was swamped.
10709. Then you took those people?
- Yes; off that boat, into ours.
10710. And let the collapsible drift?
- Yes.
10711. How many people did you find in that swamped boat?
- There were about 4 of them and this 1 woman. There were about 12 men and 1 woman.
10712. That made about 25 people, including the one who died?
- Yes.
10713. Did you take off of the swamped boat the dead bodies?
- No, sir; we left them there.
10714. You left them there to drift?
- Yes; three of them that were dead.
10715. Were those dead people passengers?
- I could not say, sir. They were lying right over the thwarts, like that (indicating).
10716. Did you know any of them?
- No, sir.
10717. Did you look at them?
- No, sir, I did not particularly look at them. I was assisting the other passengers off.
10718. Evidently you do not like to look at dead people very well. - No, sir.
10719. Is that one of the reasons why you did not pick up more of these dead people that were floating around there?
- If the officer had given orders to pick them up, we should have picked them up.
10720. But he gave no orders?
- No, sir.
10721. There was a lot of cork floating around on the water. Did you see any of it?
- No, sir.
10722. After you got those people out of that swamped boat it was daylight?
- Yes.
10723. And you sighted the Carpathia coming?
- Yes.
10724. Did you row toward her?
- We did not row toward her; we made sail.
10725. You laid down your oars?
- Laid down our oars and hoisted sail to make more speed, to get rid of these passengers, to get them aboard as soon as possible.
10726. So that you went out with sail?
- Yes.
10727. To the Carpathia?
- Yes; under sail to the Carpathia, with the collapsible boat in tow. One of the ladies there passed over a flask of whisky to the people who were all wet through. She asked if anybody needed the spirits, and these people were all soaking wet and nearly perished, and they passed it around between these men and women.
10728. Who took it?
- They gave a woman the first drink. After that the men passengers, who were wet through.
10729. Do you know the quartermaster, Hichens?
- No, sir; I have never been in conversation with him.
10730. Do you yourself know him by sight?
- I know him by sight.
10731. Was he in that collapsible boat?
- No, sir.
10732. How long did it take you after you sighted the Carpathia to get alongside of her?
- About 20 minutes, sir.
10733. During the time that you lay off from the wreck, and during the time that you cruised around the wreck, around the place of the disaster, and while you were sailing out to the Carpathia, did you see any icebergs?
- Yes.
10734. Many?
- Five or six, I should think, sir.
10735. How big?
- Some were tremendous icebergs.
10736. How big; as big as the Titanic?
- I should say about the height of that, sir.
10737. And there were quite a number of them?
- Yes; quite a number of icebergs.
10738. Did you see any growlers?
- No, sir.
10739. Did you see any field ice?
- I saw the field ice after we got on the Carpathia.
10740. A great deal of it?
- Yes, sir; at a rough estimate there was about a 21-mile floe, sir.
10741. A 21-mile floe?
- Yes; floating ice; flat like the floor.
10742. What did you do after you got aboard the Carpathia? Did you get all these people aboard?
- Yes; we got all these people aboard.
10743. Did you get all the dead people aboard?
- Yes; we got all the passengers aboard as soon as we could.
10744. Then what did you do?
- I made fast the boat. I picked up a big satchel that was in the bottom of the boat, and I threw it up to the master-at-arms of the Carpathia, and then we went on the boat deck of the Carpathia and got orders to hoist our boat.
10745. Did you see the captain that night?
- Yes.
10746. Where?
- He came to the starboard action boat that I was lowering, sir.
10747. What did he say, if anything?
- He passed some remark to a tall military gentleman there with white spats on, but what it was I could not say, as I was attending to the fall; it was a tall military-looking gentleman who was giving orders as to lowering away forward or aft or both together. As soon as we lowered the starboard action boat to the next deck the gripes of the boat caught and we had to cut them with an axe.
10748. What happened to that?
- We had to cut it away.
10749. Did it get caught in the gear?
- Yes, the gripes we use in the lowering of the boat; it caught up underneath, or else it had not been untied. I could not look at it, because it was holding it in.
10750. It was chopped away with an axe?
- Chopped away with an axe, sir.
10751. Then what happened to it?
- It was lowered right down to the water.
10752. It was lowered, then, to the water's edge?
- Yes.
10753. Was it filled with people?
- It was not on the boat deck, not when I first lowered it. Whether any passengers dropped in underneath I could not say.
10754. You mean that this No. 1 boat that was caught was not filled at the boat deck?
- Some ladies were passed into it on the boat deck, but very few.
10755. How many?
- I could not say.
10756. About how many?
- I should say five or six.
10757. And then it was lowered?
- Then it was lowered to the next deck.
10758. To A deck?
- Yes.
10759. And at A deck what happened?
- I could not tell you, because I could not see.
10760. Whether anybody got in there or not you do not know?
- I could not say.
10761. Did you see it in the water?
- No, sir.
10762. Did you ever see it after that time?
- No, sir.
10763. Did you see any men in it at all?
- I saw the able seaman, Symons; I think his name is Symons. Yes, it is Symons.
10764. The lookout?
- Yes; the lookout man.
10765. You saw him in it?
- I saw him in the boat. There were some more men. There were five in it, sir.
10766. How many men?
- Three, I think, sir.
10767. Was that all there were in it?
- That is all I could see, sir.
10768. But what became of that boat you do not know?
- I do not know, sir.
10769. Did Symons survive?
- Yes.
10770. Is he here?
- Yes, sir.
10771. This No. 1 boat was the emergency boat?
- Yes.
10772. On which side?
- On the starboard side. There in one on each side.
10773. This was on the starboard side?
- On the starboard side; yes, sir.
10774. It always hangs ready for any emergency? It always hangs ready in the davits, swung out?
- It is already swung out, sir.
10775. All ready for lowering?
- All you have to do is to take hold of the grips and lower away the boat.
10776. When you saw it last it only had eight or nine people in it?
- It only had eight or nine people in it.
10777. How many would it hold?
- I should think, on an average, of near about 35, sir; 35 or 40.
10778. No. 12, your boat, and No. 10 and No. 14, in which you escaped, were all large boats?
- The largest-sized boats.
10779. The largest sized lifeboats?
- Yes.
10780. How many will a lifeboat of that kind hold, safely?
- A large one, sir?
10781. Yes.
- It will probably hold 60, I should say, sir.
10782. Would it be perfectly safe to lower a large boat like that, with new tackle and davits, and everything in good condition, with 60 people in it?
- Yes.
10783. How many would it hold on the water if the water was smooth?
- You could not get more than 60 into the boat. My boat, No. 10, was literally packed, without any room to move, at all. We could not get to this tripper at the time, with 60 persons in it, or anywhere near it.
10784. Do you wish to be understood as saying that a large lifeboat like No. 14 or No. 12 or No. 10 could be filled to its full capacity and lowered to the water with safety?
- Yes; because we did it then, sir.
10785. That is a pretty good answer.
- It was my first experience in seeing a boat loaded like that, sir.
10786. Was it your first experience with a wreck?
- Yes.
Senator Smith:
I think that is all.
(Witness Excused.)
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