9947. Much higher than she was when she filled?
- Yes, sir; so much higher that you could see the keel.
9948. Was the distance too great for you to see whether there were any passengers on the stern?
- You could not discern any small objects. The lights were all out.
9949. Did you hear any cries of people in the water?
- Yes, sir; there were awful cries, and yelling and shouting, and that. Of course I told the women in the boats to keep quiet, and consoled them a bit. I told them it was men in the boats shouting out to the others, to keep them from getting away from one another.
9950. You did not look around you?
- I saw no one in the water whatsoever, whether alive or dead.
9951. You did not see any wreckage around you?
- No, sir; we never seen no wreckage around us.
9952. How long did you remain about a quarter of a mile from the ship after you reached that point? Did you remain there any length of time, or did you keep on rowing away?
- No, sir; we remained there, I should say, up until about 4 o'clock.
9953. A matter of an hour and a half?
- Yes, sir; it was just after we got the women from Mr. Lowe's boat, and he said he was going around the wreckage to see if he could find anybody.
9954. How many did you have in your boat after you had taken part of the load from Mr. Lowe's boat?
- I should say we had close to 60, then.
9955. Full up?
- Yes, sir; we were pretty well full up then.
9956. What direction did Mr. Lowe give you?
- He told us to lie on our oars and keep together until he came back to us.
9957. He, in the meantime, having gone to see if he could rescue anybody where the ship had sunk?
- Yes, sir; and while Mr. Lowe was gone I heard shouts. Of course I looked around, and I saw a boat in the way that appeared to be like a funnel. We started to back away then. We thought it was the top of the funnel. I put my head over the gunwale and looked along the water's edge and saw some men on a raft. Then I heard two whistles blown. I sang out "Aye, aye; I am coming over," and we pulled over and found it was a raft - not a raft, exactly, but an overturned boat - and Mr. Lightoller was there on that boat, and I believe - I do not know whether I am right or not, but I think the wireless operator was on there, too. We took them on board the boat and we shared the amount of the room that was there.
9958. How many were there on this boat that was there?
- I should say about 20, sir.
9959. So that you had about 60 at the time you rescued them, and you took on approximately 10 more?
- Yes, sir; that made about 70 in my boat.
9960. The 60 were all women and children, except one man and your mate?
- Me and my mate - that is, when we came away from the boat; but when we got transferred we had some more put aboard from Mr. Lowe's boat. They were all men we picked up off of the raft, or the overturned boat. It was a raft more than anything.
9961. Was it one of the collapsible boats that had overturned?
- Some term them "collapsible" boats, and some term them "surf" boats.
9962. But she was bottom up?
- Bottom up, sir.
9963. They were all standing on the bottom?
- On the bottom of the boat, sir; and Mr. Lightoller, he came aboard of us. They were all wet through, apparently; they had been in the water.
9964. Then what did you do?
- Mr. Lightoller took charge of us and sighted the Carpathia's lights. Then we started heading for that. We had to row a tidy distance to the Carpathia, because there was boats ahead of us, you see, and we had a boat in tow with us, besides all the people we had aboard.
9965. When did you sign for the ship?
- I signed on Monday, sir.
9966. And sailed when?
- On Wednesday.
9967. Were you assigned to any lifeboat at the time or any boat?
- Yes, sir; I was put on the boat list as on No. 4.
9968. You were assigned to that boat?
- Yes, sir.
9969. As soon as you had signed your articles?
- Oh, no, sir.
9970. When did you get notice you were assigned to No. 4?
- I suppose we had been out a couple of days before notice had been put up.
9971. They had no drills before leaving the dock?
- Yes, sir; two boats were sent away.
9972. But your boat was not?
- No, sir.
9973. It was not. There were only two boats drilled at the dock prior to sailing?
- That was all, sir, and they were manned by the seamen. They pulled around the dock and come back and got hoisted up again.
9974. Why did they not have a drill for all of the boats? Is that not customary?
- No, sir; there is only two boats goes out.
9975. Those are the emergency boats?
- No, sir; not emergency boats - the lifeboats.
9976. There were 14 of what are designated lifeboats on the Titanic?
- Fourteen lifeboats and two emergency boats.
9977. And four collapsible boats?
- Four collapsible boats.
9978. Making 20 altogether?
- Twenty altogether.
9979. Why should they pick out and have a drill with 2 of the 14 lifeboats and not drill with the other 12?
- Why, I could not say.
9980. In your experience at sea have you always been assigned to different boats, on different lines?
- Yes, sir.
9981. As soon as you had signed your articles?
- As soon as you went aboard the ship there was the boat list stuck up in the forecastle for you.
9982. Was it customary then to have boat drills?
- Yes, sir; we had a board of trade muster then, on the other ships I have been on.
9983. But you did not have any on this boat, the Titanic?
- They just had a line up, sir, and that is all, and we were told to go to the boats and get away.
9984. How long after you sailed did you know your boat?
- About two days after, sir.
9985. How did you get knowledge of your allotment or designation for No. 4?
- Because it was posted up on the forecastle door.
9986. That was the first intimation you had?
- That was the first information I had.
9987. Did they have any boat drill at all during the voyage?
- No, sir.
9988. Did you see any notice of any drill that was called for during the voyage?
- No, sir.
9989. Is it customary, according to your experience you have had in the years you have been sailing on steamships, to have boat drills during voyages?
- Yes, sir; every Saturday at sea, on the boats I have been in.
9990. But they had none on the Titanic?
- No, sir. When I was on the Olympic we used to have it on Sunday, if we remained in port on Sunday.
9991. What did that drill consist of? Would you explain it so that we can understand just what a boat drill is such as those you had on the Olympic on a Sunday?
- Well, every Sunday the fire bell rang, and all like that, and you had to attend to your fire hose, and after that was done we proceeded to our boats. When the whistle blowed, each man went to his boat. There was two seamen allotted to each boat.
9992. You would just go to the boat and walk away?
- No, sir; we would walk up, line up, and get our names called out.
9993. You would not take the canvas off and lower the boats and get into the boats and have any drill?
- No, sir.
9994. That is never done?
- That is never done. I have never done that.
9995. But they did not on the Titanic even have muster and the men walk up to the various boats to which they had been allotted?
- Yes, sir; that is, when we used to have a Sunday in New York.
9996. On the Titanic did they do this?
- Only in Southampton, sir.
9997. They did not do it on the voyage?
- No, sir.
9998. But on the Olympic, every voyage you took on her they did it every Sunday?
- If we happened to get a Sunday in New York, sir.
9999. Did you hear any shooting?
- Yes, sir; Mr. Lowe was in No. 14 boat, and he sings out, "Anybody attempting to get into these boats while we are lowering them, I will shoot them," and he shot three shots.
10000. Did he shoot anybody?
- He shot straight down in the water.
10001. Did not fire at anybody?
- No, sir; just shot to frighten the people.
10002. Was there any effort made, after he fired three shots, by anyone to get into the boat?
- No, sir.
10003. There was no confusion at all?
- No confusion whatever, sir. Everything went as if it was boat drill in Southampton.
10004. Did any of the able-bodied seamen ever go into the crow's nest to look out, or are the lookouts specially selected?
- Special men assigned to that.
10005. For that purpose?
- For that purpose only.
10006. Do any of them go into the eyes of the boat to keep a lookout?
- Only in case of a fog, sir.
10007. Then would you or some of your mates do that?
- We would have to go up in the crow's nest and relieve the lookout. He would come down and go in the eyes of the boat.
10008. Was there anyone in the eyes of the boat at the time of the accident?
- I could not say, sir, because I was not on deck.
10009. Will you kindly define your duties at sea as an able-bodied seaman?
- When I was on the Olympic, sir?
10010. On the Titanic.
- Well, I was picked out for alleyway man, what we term the engineer's alleyway, what we term the working alleyway. That was to work from 6 to 5; keep it swept up, and all paint work clean. That was my duty aboard that ship.
10011. Did you ever take a trick at the wheel?
- No, sir.
10012. They have wheel men specially selected?
- A quartermaster assigned on that, just the same as the lookout, a special man.
10013. Are you familiar with the boiler rooms?
- No, sir.
10014. Was there any criticism on the part of any of the men that any of the officers were incompetent, or that there was any intemperance or that there was anyone to blame for the disaster?
- No; I can not say that there is.
10015. You have not heard of any?
- I have not heard of any. As for any intemperance, you seldom saw anything on a boat like that. I mean to say you can not get anything to drink there, so you are bound to be a teetotaler there.
10016. Have you had experience - I do not mean in the way of being shipwrecked - with ice, before?
- No, sir; never.
10017. This is your first experience?
- Yes, sir. Unless it was like on other ships when we have been laying in the river in New York.
10018. But you had not been in the iceberg belt before?
- Never.
10019. When it became dawn or daylight, did you find many bergs and much ice around you?
- Yes, sir; there was a large field of ice, I should say 20 to 30 miles long, just ahead of us and there was a few bergs floating around, large ones, too.
10020. How long after the Carpathia reached the scene of the disaster did it take you to get out of the field where the ice was?
- I should say about two hours and a half.
10021. It is your opinion that the ship did not break in two?
- That I can not say, sir, because it was so dark.
10022. You were too far away?
- We was too far away to see anything like that, although we could not have been so far away, because when we picked up the surfboat that was overturned she must have been pretty well over the wreck, because they had nothing to propel themselves along with; they had no oars or nothing; they was at a standstill at the time.
10023. did you learn, from those on the surfboat that was bottom up, how she capsized?
- I do not know that she capsized at all, sir; she went down bow first.
10024. I mean the surfboat.
- No. I never heard, sir how it happened. The men was too much exhausted to talk much.
10025. Did they all survive, that you rescued?
- Yes, sir; although we thought it was a case with the wireless operator, who was very bad. We said we thought he was going to "croak."
Senator Bourne:
I think that will be all. I am very much obliged to you.
(Witness excused.)
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