9504. You did not see the iceberg?
- No, sir. I never saw any ice until morning. We thought it was a full-rigged ship. We were right in amongst the wreckage, and we thought it was a sailing ship, until the light came on and we saw it was an iceberg.
9505. Did you get very far away from where the Titanic went down before the Carpathia was in sight?
- No, sir. When the Carpathia came and hove to, we were still amongst the wreckage looking for bodies.
9506. By that time there were none of those afloat who were alive, so far as you could see?
- No, sir; there were no more alive, then.
9507. The lifebelts were all in good condition, were they?
- Yes, all new lifebelts. When you once put them on, there is no fear of them pulling off again in the water.
9508. Do you think there was a sufficient number of lifebelts for all the passengers?
- Yes, sir; more than sufficient. Of course the seamen did not have a chance to get them - did not have time to get them.
9509. The seamen?
- Yes, sir.
9510. Did the passengers have time, after the alarm was given, to get the belts?
- They had the belts on a good hour before she went down.
9511. You think all the passengers were notified and were able to get out of their cabins?
- I should say so. They were all on the boat deck.
9512. What became of them? You got all that were in sight when you loaded the last boat?
- We loaded all the women we could see, and the chief officer [Buley refers to First Officer Murdoch - whom he mistakenly refers to as Chief - Henry Wilde replaced Murdoch as Chief in Southampton] rushed around trying to find more, and there was none, and our boat was lowered away.
9513. What became of the passengers on the boat?
- They were taken aboard the Carpathia.
9514. I mean all the passengers on the Titanic?
- I could not say, sir.
9515. You did not see them around the deck when you were leaving?
- When we left they were still working, getting rafts ready, and throwing chairs over the side.
9516. Getting rafts ready?
- Yes, sir.
9517. How many rafts were there?
- That is, what they call rafts. They did not have time to make any rafts.
9518. Who was doing that?
- The stewards and the firemen.
9519. Were there any passengers jumping overboard?
- I never seen anyone jump overboard, sir.
9520. Did you see any passengers on the deck when you left?
- Only men, sir.
9521. Were there many of those?
- Yes, sir; there were plenty of them, sir. If she had had sufficient boats I think everyone would have been saved.
9522. Were these men that you saw on deck desiring or wanting to get into the boats?
- No, sir.
9523. Or did they seem to think the ship was going to float?
- I think that is what the majority thought, that the ship would float. They thought she would go down a certain distance and stop there.
9524. Did you hear any of them say that?
- Yes, several of them. They said they were only getting the boats out for exercise and in case of accident.
9525. After you left her, her bow continued to go under?
- Settled down; yes, sir. She went down as far as the afterfunnel, and then there was a little roar, as though the engines had rushed forward, and she snapped in two, and the bow part went down and the afterpart came up and staid up five minutes before it went down.
9526. Was that perpendicular?
- It was horizontal at first, and then went down.
9527. What do you mean by saying she snapped in two?
- She parted in two.
9528. How do you know that?
- Because we could see the afterpart afloat, and there was no forepart to it. I think she must have parted where the bunkers were. She parted at the last, because the afterpart of her settled out of the water horizontally after the other part went down. First of all you could see her propellers and everything. Her rudder was clear out of the water. You could hear the rush of the machinery, and she parted in two, and the afterpart settled down again, and we thought the afterpart would float altogether.
9529. The afterpart kind of righted up horizontally?
- She uprighted herself for about five minutes, and then tipped over and disappeared.
9530. Did it go on the side?
- No, sir; went down headforemost.
9531. That makes you believe the boat went in two?
- Yes, sir. You could see she went in two, because we were quite near to her and could see her quite plainly.
9532. You were near and could see her quite plainly?
- Yes, sir.
9533. Did you see any people on her?
- I never saw a soul.
9534. You must have been too far away to see that?
- It was dark.
9535. Were there lights on that half part?
- The lights were all out. The lights went out gradually before she disappeared.
9536. Notwithstanding the darkness you could see the outline of the ship?
- Yes, sir; we could see the outline of the ship.
9537. You could see the funnel?
- Quite plainly.
9538. Were there any cinders or sparks or anything of that sort from the funnel?
- No, sir. We were lying to there. The people in the boat were very frightened that there would be some suction. If there had been any suction we should have been lost. We were close to her. We couldn't get away fast enough. There was nobody to pull away.
9539. How far were you when she went down?
- We were about 200 yards.
9540. Do you know the names of the men in the boat with you?
- I only know one, sir. That is Evans, able seaman.
9541. Is he here?
- Yes, sir; he is coming up tonight at 8 o'clock.
9542. Who was in charge of your boat?
- I was, sir.
9543. Do you know anything else about this matter, or is there anything that you could think of that would throw any light on it?
- No, sir; I think that is all I know.
9544. In what capacity were you employed in the navy?
- Able seaman and seaman gunner.
9545. You do not have lifeboats in the navy?
- Yes; they do, sir.
9546. Do they have enough for the men?
- Oh, no; not enough for the men. They have enough for the men just on ordinary occasions, like calm water; that is, if they could get them out in time.
9547. You opinion is, if they had had enough lifeboats here, these people could all have been saved?
- Yes, sir; they could all have been saved.
There was a ship of some description there when she struck, and she passed right by us. We thought she was coming to us; and if she had come to us, everyone could have boarded her. You could see she was a steamer. She had her steamer lights burning.
She was off our port bow when we struck, and we all started for the same light, and that is what kept the boats together.
9548. But you never heard of that ship any more?
- No; we could not see anything of her in the morning when it was daylight. She was stationary all night; I am very positive for about three hours she was stationary, and then she made tracks.
9549. How far away was she?
- I should judge she was about 3 miles.
9550. Why could not she see your skyrockets?
- She could not help seeing them. She was close enough to see our lights and to see the ship itself, and also the rockets. She was bound to see them.
9551. You are quite certain that it was a ship?
- Yes, sir; it was a ship.
9552. How many lights did you see?
- I saw two masthead lights.
9553. No stern lights?
- You could not see the stern lights. You could not see her bow lights. We were in the boat at the time.
9554. Did you see that ship before you were in the water?
- Yes, sir; I saw it from the ship. That is what we told the passengers. We said, "There is a steamer coming to our assistance." That is what kept them quiet, I think.
9555. Did she come toward you bow on?
- Yes, sir; bow on toward us; and then she stopped, and the lights seemed to go right by us.
9556. If she had gone by you, she would have been to your stern?
- She was stationary there for about three hours, I think, off our port, there, and when we were in the boat we all made for her, and she went by us. The northern lights are just like a searchlight, but she disappeared. That was astern of where the ship went down.
9557. She gave no signal?
- No signal whatever. I could not say whether she gave a signal from the bridge or not. You could not see from where we were, though.
9558. Do you suppose she was fastened in the ice?
- I could not say she was.
9559. She must have known the Titanic was in distress?
- She must have known it. They could have seen the rockets and must have known there was some distress on.
9560. The Titanic had sirens?
- Yes; she had sirens, but she never blew them. They fired rockets.
9561. They did not blow the siren or whistle?
- No, sir.
9562. But the steam was escaping and making quite a noise?
- Yes, sir; you could not hear yourself speak then. That had quieted down. The firemen went down and drew nearly all the fires.
9563. When she went down, she had no fire in her of any consequence?
- She might have had fire, but very little.
9564. When did you first see that boat on the bow? How long was it before you launched?
- When we started turning the boats out. That was about 10 minutes after she struck.
9565. Did that boat seem to be getting farther away from you?
- No; it seemed to be coming nearer.
9566. You are possessed of pretty good eyes?
- I can see a distance of 21 miles, sir.
9567. This was a clear night and no fog?
- A clear night and no fog.
9568. A smooth sea?
- Yes, sir.
9569. You are quite positive there was no illusion about that boat ahead?
- It must have been a boat, sir. It was too low down in the sea for a star. Then we were quite convinced afterwards, because we saw it go right by us when we were in the lifeboats. We thought she was coming toward us to pick us up.
9570. How far away was she?
- Three miles, sir, I should judge.
9571. When did you last see the captain that night?
- I never saw him at all, sir.
9572. What officers were in sight when you left the ship?
- Chief Officer Murdoch was the last one I saw.
9573. Did you see Mr. Ismay that night?
- I do not know him.
9574. Boat No. 10 was on the port side?
- Yes, sir.
9575. Who helped lower it? I believe you said you helped to lower all the boats?
- I helped to lower all of them. Chief Officer Murdoch ordered me into the boat, finally, and he said, "Is there any more seamen?" I said, "No, sir."
9576. Mr. Ismay got in one of the boats?
- I do not know which one it was. No. 12 was the last boat before me to be lowered, and Evans was one of the men that lowered that boat, and after he lowered that away I called him and told him Chief Officer Murdoch gave me orders to find a seaman and tell him to come in the boat with me, and he jumped in my boat.
9577. Was boat No. 12 loaded to its full capacity?
- Yes, sir.
9578. Mostly women?
- All women and children; except, of course, a couple pulling.
9579. Only two men?
- They generally ran two seamen and one fireman and a steward to each boat.
9580. Do you know how many there were in No. 12?
- No, sir; I do not.
9581. Do you think there were no male passengers in No. 12?
- I was told afterwards that there were a couple of Japanese in our boat. They never got in our boat unless they came in there dressed as women.
9582. Do you know if they actually were there?
- I can say I never saw them there.
9583. When you unloaded them?
- I did not unload them. I was on the other boat at the time when they unloaded. We were alongside with the rescued people out of one collapsible boat, and towing the other boat behind us, the one Mr. Lowe was in.
9584. That is one of the collapsible boats?
- Yes, sir; one we were towing, sir. There was one we were told not to use, which was a surf boat.
9585. You did not have any life rafts at all on the ship?
- No, sir.
9586. I believe that is all I care to ask you. You will be good enough to appear at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning before the committee.
- Yes, sir.
(Witness Excused.)
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