11156. (Senator Smith.) Yes.
- With my own eyesight.
11157. In the day?
- Or night.
11158. Are there any tests or precautions that may be taken, other than by vision, to determine proximity to ice?
- Not in clear weather.
11159. How about foggy weather?
- I have not a great deal of experience in ice. This is my first experience amongst an ice field. Previous to this I have seen small bergs, in the North Atlantic, only. I have seen any amount of it around Cape Horn, but that was when I was in a sailing ship.
11160. Have you ever heard of the steam whistle being used for the purpose of detecting proximity to ice?
- By the echo?
11161. Yes.
- I have read of it, but I have never heard of anyone doing it.
11162. And you have never tried it yourself?
- No.
11163. Have you ever heard of the natural explosions of icebergs, which in themselves, might constitute a warning?
- Yes; I think I have heard about ice breaking adrift.
11164. Have you ever experienced such a thing?
- No; I have had very little experience with ice.
11165. Would glasses in the hands of the lookout be of any assistance in determining proximity to ice?
- No, I should not think so. I would never think of giving a man in the lookout a pair of glasses.
11166. And have never done so?
- I did once. I do not think I will ever again.
11167. When did you do it?
- The morning I was looking for the Titanic, I gave a pair to the lookout. I pulled a man up to the main truck in a coal basket when I heard of it, so he would have a good view around, and gave him a pair of glasses.
11168. Let us understand each other. That was at the time when you were increasing your vigilance?
- Yes, sir.
11169. And when you had sent an additional lookout to the crow's nest?
- No; I pulled him up to the main truck, which is about 30 feet higher than the crow's nest; pulled him up in a coal basket.
11170. When you did that, you gave him glasses?
- Gave him glasses.
11171. Of course, that was in daylight?
- Oh, yes.
11172. And that is the only time you ever used glasses in the crow's nest?
- The first time I ever heard of it.
11173. Let me ask, where did you get these glasses that you gave to that extra lookout that morning?
- I took them off the bridge; a spare pair that were on the bridge.
11174. You have glasses on the bridge for your own use?
- Yes.
11175. And yet you have no glasses in the crow's nest for the use of the lookout?
- No.
11176. Do you know what visions tests are made of the lookout men before they are placed in position?
- No; I believe the doctors who examine them before they are allowed to sign articles test their eyesight. I do not know; I have never been there when their examination was going on.
11177. You would not think it desirable to employ a lookout whose vision was impaired, would you?
- If we found a man who could not see very well, we would not let him go on the lookout. We very soon find that out.
11178. His position on the masthead is supposed to be the best point for observation on the ship, is it not?
- Well, in clear weather it is.
11179. If you had received the C.Q.D. call of distress from the Titanic Sunday evening after your communication with the Titanic, how long, under the conditions which surrounded you, would it have taken you to have reached the scene of the catastrophe?
- At the very least, two hours.
11180. Two hours?
- At the very least, the way the ice was packed around us, and it being nighttime.
11181. Do you know how long it look for the Carpathia to reach the scene of the accident from the time the C.Q.D. call was received by Capt. Rostron?
- Only from what I have read in the paper.
11182. You have no knowledge of your own on that?
- No, sir.
11183. Capt. Rostron told you nothing?
- Oh, no. I asked him the particulars of the accident; that was all.
11184. It took the Carpathia about four hours to reach the scene of the Titanic's accident, after they received word.
- So I understand.
11185. Do you know from your log, or from any other source, the position of the Carpathia when she received the C.Q.D. call?
- No, sir.
11186. You were about 20 miles away?
- Nineteen and one-half to twenty miles from the position given me by the Titanic.
11187. At the hour the Titanic sank?
- We were 19 1/2 to 20 miles away.
11188. And the Carpathia was 53 miles away?
- Yes, sir.
11189. How long after the Carpathia reached the scene of this accident did you reach the scene?
- Well, I don't know what time we got there.
11190. Had the lifeboats, with their passengers, been picked up and taken aboard the Carpathia?
- I think he was taking the last boat up when I got there.
11191. Did you see any of the wreckage when you got there?
- Yes, sir.
11192. Tell the committee what you saw?
- I saw several empty boats, some floating planks, a few deck chairs, and cushions; but considering the size of the disaster, there was very little wreckage. It seemed more like an old fishing boat had sunk.
11193. Did you see any life preservers?
- A few lifebelts floating around.
11194. Did you see any persons, dead or alive?
- No, sir.
11195. How long did you remain in the vicinity of the wreck?
- (looking at the log.) Eleven twenty we proceeded on our course.
11196. And you reached there at what hour?
- At 8.30, sir.
11197. During that time what did you do?
- I talked to the Carpathia until 9 o'clock. Then he left. Then we went full speed in circles over a radius - that is, I took a big circle and then came around and around and got back to the boats again, where I had left them.
11198. That was all you saw?
- Yes, sir.
11199. What you have described is all you saw?
- Yes, sir.
11200. I will ask you whether you saw any icebergs while you were making that circle?
- I was surrounded by icebergs.
11201. How large were they?
- The ones way to the southeast were much larger than the ones to the westward.
11202. How large was the largest, in your judgment, above the water?
- I suppose the largest was about 150 feet - 100 to 150 feet.
11203. No one has described the length or width of any of these icebergs that were seen about the place of this wreck. I do not know how accurately you could give us this information, but you say that one was approximately 100 feet high?
- That is, the farthest away, the most easterly ones, the largest ones. The ones to the westward were not very high, and they were mixed up with field ice.
11204. How high was that iceberg above water?
- The large one I am speaking of?
11205. Yes.
- I suppose about 100 feet.
11206. How wide was it?
- I would not like to say the width. I could give you an approximate idea of the width.
11207. That was all I asked.
- 700 or 800 feet, it seemed to be. It was a long way off. That seemed to be the biggest one.
11208. Have you ever seen the Titanic?
- Never.
11209. Have you ever seen the Olympic?
- Only at a distance; about 5 miles away.
11210. How much larger than the Olympic would that iceberg be; have you any idea?
- No, sir.
11211. As a matter of fact, it would be larger than the Titanic if it was as large as you suggest, would it not?
- I do not know the length of the Titanic.
Senator Smith:
How long was the Titanic, Mr. Franklin?
Mr. Franklin:
882 1/2 feet.
Senator Smith:
And it was 70 feet above the water?
Mr. Franklin:
Yes; and 92 feet beam.
11212. (To the Witness.) The Titanic was 70 feet above the water and 882 1/2 feet long. Now, from what you know of an iceberg in the north Atlantic, or any place else, what proportion of the iceberg is submerged and what proportion is out of the water?
- I can only tell you what I saw that morning when we were at the mouth of the field. They were not really bergs, but they were big chunks of ice, and I suppose they were about 2 feet above water, when we were driving along toward the Titanic, and we would probably get to the corner of one of them and turn it over, and probably see about 10 or 11 feet to it, and I could not see any end to it.
11213. From your observation or study as a mariner, familiar with the sea, do you know of any rule by which you may determine the proportion of an iceberg underwater?
- I have always heard it was seven-eighths, but I do not know any rule.
11214. That is, if 100 feet of an iceberg protruded above the water, there would be seven times as much of the same iceberg below the surface of the water?
- So I understand; yes; sir.
11215. My colleague suggests that I qualify that question a trifle by adding "in bulk," which I will do in order to be accurate. What was the color of this largest iceberg, as you saw it on Monday morning?
- It looked to me to be white from where we were. Of course, the sun was shining on it then.
11216. Do they usually show white when the sun shines on them?
- When the sun shines on them they show white, usually; yes.
11217. Do they at any time show black?
- I suppose they would at night; not exactly black, but a grayish, a less distinguishable color than white.
11218. Blue?
- I should imagine it would be gray when the sun was not shining on them.
11219. I do not want to seem to be impertinent, Captain, and hope you will not so regard it, but the question arose this morning as to whether there had been any attempt on the part of anyone to prevent you from responding to the Senate's request?
- I do not think so. I applied for permission as soon as the marshal served me with the notice. I applied to the local manager for permission, or rather to the assistant local manager. I could not get the manager. He said he would inquire from the manager. That is all I know about it.
11220. The Californian, of which you are commander, belongs to what line?
- The Leyland Line.
11221. The Leyland Line is a member or part of the International Mercantile Marine Co., is it not?
- I believe it is; yes.
11222. And is represented in this country by Mr. Franklin?
- So I understand; yes.
11223. And in England by Mr. Ismay?
- Yes, sir.
11224. Captain, during Sunday, when you were in the vicinity of ice, did you give any special instructions to your wireless operator?
- No, sir.
11225. Are there any rules and regulations prescribing the conduct of the wireless operator or operators on your ship?
- No; they are kept amenable to the discipline, just like the rest of the crew are.
11226. Do you recognize them as subordinate to your wishes while they are at sea?
- To a certain extent I do; yes.
11227. Do you recognize their responsibility to the Marconi Co.?
- Yes.
11228. So their responsibility is divided, somewhat?
- Yes.
11229. You had but one operator, had you?
- That is all.
11230. And what was his name?
- Mr. Evans.
11231. Is he here with you?
- Yes, sir; this is he (indicating).
11232. Do you know whether your wireless operator was on duty Sunday night after you sent this warning message to the Titanic?
- I do not think he was.
11233. You do not think he was on duty?
- No.
11234. Then you are unable to say whether an attempt was made to communicate with the Californian?
- No; I do not know as to that. I went past his room at about a quarter to 12, and there was no light in there.
11235. Does that indicate he was out, or asleep?
- That would indicate he was asleep. As a rule there is always a light in the accumulator burning when he is not asleep.
11236. Did he have any hours particularly prescribed for him by yourself or anyone else after you became aware of your proximity to ice?
- No.
11237. On Sunday?
- No.
11238. Suppose your wireless operator had been at his post in the operating room when the C. Q. D. call of distress came out from the Titanic, which was received by the Carpathia and other ships, would your ship have been apprised of the distress of the Titanic? I mean, have you such an apparatus on that ship as would have in all probability caught this message?
- If the operator had been on duty?
11239. Yes.
- Most certainly.
11240. What has been the custom on your ship with reference to wireless service? Do you profess to undertake to have the operator on duty during the daytime or in the night?
- I have never interfered with them.
11241. In any way?
- From what I have seen of him, he is generally around until about 10 o'clock in the morning, and next day gives me reports of things that happen after midnight, very frequently.
11242. If you were to have the service of a wireless operator at a time when he might be of most service when would it be, ordinarily, day or night?
- As it happens; there are so many one-operator ships around that at nighttime most of those fellows are asleep; and he would be more useful in the daytime. We would get a great deal more information in the daytime, as it happens now.
11243. But at night your passengers are also asleep?
- Yes, sir.
11244. Would it not be well to have your wireless operator at his post on duty at night, when other eyes are closed, in order that any possible signal of distress might not escape your attention?
- We have the officer on the bridge, who can see as far at night as in the daytime.
11245. But the officer on the bridge could not see the Titanic even with glasses, you said, that night.
- No.
11246. The wireless operator could have heard the call if he had been at his post of duty?
- Yes; he would have heard that.
11247. Do you know whether the wireless service works more satisfactorily at night than it does in the daytime, and with greater accuracy?
- I believe it gets a longer range. I do not know that there is any more accuracy, but you can reach farther.
Senator Smith:
Do any of the other Senators desire to ask questions?
11248. (Senator Bourne.) I simply want to ask, Captain, whether the wireless operator had any regular hours or not? If so, what were they?
- No; I do not think there are any regular hours. I understand they are usually around from 7 in the morning to half-past 2, and then I think they lie down, because I never, as a rule, receive any messages between half-past 2 and 4. I presume they are asleep.
11249. You think it is better to have two operators on every ship, do you, so as to have continuous service?
- It would be much nicer. You would never miss a message, then.
11250. I understood you to say nobody attempted to prevent your responding to the Senate subpoena - none of the people with whom you are connected, or your company?
- No. As soon as the marshal came to me - he came about half-past 7 last night - I told him I did not like to go without notifying - at least I told him I would not go until my owners gave me permission. We went to the telephone together, and I told the assistant manager what had happened. He said, "All right, I will notify Mr. Thomas. Keep handy and I will let you know the result." It was a question of whether or not they would allow me. I do not know what the discussion was. He did not say, "You are not to go."