Senator Smith:
We want to know, Mr. Marconi, the time it was sent from the Amerika, the latitude and longitude, and, if you can trace it, the time it was received. I might say for your information that this message was received here at the Hydrographic Office in Washington at 10.51 p. m. April 14, and it came from the Amerika via the Titanic and Cape Race to Washington. It says:
S. S. "AMERIKA" VIA "TITANIC" AND CAPE RACE, N. F.
April 14, 1912.HYDROGRAPHIC OFFICE, Washington, D. C.:
Amerika passed two large icebergs in 41.27 L, 60.5 W, on the 14th of April.K.N.U.T.
It should be "h," but on here it is "p. 10.51 p."
I understand, Mr. Marconi, that Mr. Boaz, of the Hamburg-American Line, says that wireless messages are not under their control; that official inquiry must be made of the post-office authorities at Berlin, who control the wireless on German ships.
Mr. Marconi:
I suppose that is a fact. I will do my best to obtain these messages. At the same time I should say that may take us a considerable time to get them.
Senator Smith:
We will wait on you if you will use your usual expedition. Mr. Marconi, if you think you will have difficulty in obtaining that message, and would prefer to have us undertake it in our own way, I will not burden you with the responsibility.
Mr. Marconi:
I shall be very glad to assist the committee in any way. I think perhaps, through the German company I may be able to get it.
Senator Smith:
I wish you would think the matter over and confer with us about it a little later. We shall try to cooperate in the matter.
Mr. Marconi:
Yes, sir.
7974. (To the Witness.) Now, Mr. Cottam, how long have you been an operator in the wireless telegraphy business?
- About three years.
7975. During which time you have been in various parts of the world?
- Yes.
7976. I would like to ask whether, from your observation and experience there is any rivalry or hatred among wireless operators using the Marconi system against those who do not use the Marconi system?
- There used to be a certain amount, before the Marconi company amalgamated with the Telefunken. There used to be a certain amount of rivalry between the two - the Telefunken system and the Marconi system.
7977. Is it not a fact that matters of vital importance are often neglected because of that rivalry and hatred?
- No; I do not think so.
7978. You heard Mr. Bride testify in New York that after the C. Q.. D. call was sent from the Titanic, and it was picked up by the Frankfurt. The Frankfurt operator waited about 20 minutes before replying?
- Yes, sir.
7979. And then said, "What is the matter"?
- That is so.
7980. Whereupon Bride said to him, "You are a fool. Keep out."
- Yes, sir.
7891. You heard Bride testify to that?
- Yes; I heard it sent.
7982. From anything you know, was there any rivalry between the operators on the Frankfurt, under that system, and the operator on the Titanic?
- No, sir. There ought to be no rivalry, The C. Q. D. call ought to be quite sufficient for any man who understands the English language, or the German language, for that matter. The C.Q.D. call is a universal call.
7983. The C.Q.D. call means the same in all languages, does it not?
- Yes; no matter whether it is German, French, or otherwise.
7984. It is a cipher warning of danger. It is a cry of distress. The C.Q.D. is the universal wireless language of distress, is it not?
- Yes.
7985. It speaks in all languages?
- Yes.
7986. You say it was the duty of that operator to come, and not to ask questions?
- Yes; not to hesitate. He ought not to have hesitated a minute.
7987. The captain of the Carpathia did not hesitate a minute, did he?
- No, sir.
7988. Is the Frankfurt equipped with the same apparatus that the Carpathia has, do you know?
- I do not remember, sir. I do not remember whether she is fitted with the Telefunken or whether she has the Marconi system.
Senator Smith:
Do you know, Mr. Marconi?
Mr. Marconi:
I do not know. I know it is a ship with which we work.
Senator Smith:
With which you interchange?
Mr. Marconi:
Yes, sir.
7989. (To the Witness.) What about this Telefunken?
- That is a different system. The Telefunken and the Marconi are different systems.
7990. You know of no hatred or rivalry that would enter into such a situation as that?
- No, sir; there ought not to be.
7991. You know of no such thing that delayed the Frankfurt from going to the rescue of the Titanic?
- No, sir; there was not another sound other than that single communication between the Frankfurt and the Titanic; there was not another sound otherwise. He ought to have heard it and read it.
7992. Let us see about that. There was the C.Q.D. that you picked up?
- Yes.
7993. And that was picked up on the Frankfurt?
- I do not know whether the same one was. I do not suppose it was.
7994. The C.Q.D. was received and acknowledged; then 20 minutes elapsed, and the operator asked the Titanic, "What is the trouble?"
- Yes, sir; he came back with his position. He said, "Here is our position. What is the matter?"
7995. He gave his position and said, "What is the matter"?
- He did not give it; he offered it.
7996. Did he ever give it?
- I do not know whether he gave it or not, sir. I did not hear it.
7997. Did you receive that message from the Frankfurt to the Titanic on the Carpathia?
- Yes, sir.
7998. What did it say?
- It simply asked what was the matter - what did he want to exchange positions for at that time of night - and wanted to know what was the matter.
7999. The Frankfurt wanted to know what was the matter, and did not give his position?
- I do not remember whether he gave it or not; I did not hear it.
8000. Would you have heard it if it had been given? You heard the balance of the message?
- Certainly. I heard all the communications with the Titanic.
8001. You heard all the communications with the Titanic?
- Yes, sir.
8002. From what ships?
- From the ships that were in communication with the Titanic.
8003. What were they?
- There were the Olympic and the Frankfurt. Satisfactory communication was not established with the Baltic at all.
8004. But satisfactory communication was established with the Olympic and the Frankfurt?
- Yes, sir.
8005. Do you remember whether the Olympic gave her position?
- Yes sir; she gave it.
8006. Do you remember what it was?
- No sir; I did not take it.
Senator Smith:
You are positive the Frankfurt did not give her position?
Mr. Marconi:
I am not positive - absolutely positive. I can not remember. I did not take notice of it. I was helping the Titanic.
Senator Smith:
Under the regulations of the Berlin Convention the Frankfurt was obliged to give her position, was she not; upon receipt of this C. Q. D. call?
Mr. Marconi:
If he had used any common sense he will have done it.
Senator Smith:
How is that, Mr. Marconi?
Mr. Marconi:
They are obliged to give the best assistance possible. I suppose that would include that.
Senator Smith:
What I am trying to ascertain is this. The C. Q. D. call, the call of distress, goes out. That is the most alarming call that can be recorded over a wireless instrument?
Mr. Marconi:
Yes, sir.
Senator Smith:
It is as significant, as I understand it, as a red light, would be in front of a moving express train?
Mr. Marconi:
Yes, sir.
Senator Smith:
A warning and a call both?
Mr. Marconi:
Yes, sir.
Senator Smith:
What I would like to get at is this, whether it is the duty of any ship whose country is a party to the Berlin convention to respond to that call, and whether when that response is made the ship's position is given as a part of the regulations. Do you see my point?
Mr. Marconi:
Yes.
Senator Smith:
If the Frankfurt was 500 miles away and the ship's position was known to the captain of the Titanic, and the Carpathia was 50 miles away and the ship's position was known to the Titanic, then the operator of the Titanic might very appropriately say to the operator of the Frankfurt, "Keep out." Do you see my point?
Mr. Marconi:
Yes.
Senator Smith:
I want to know whether that is covered by the regulations?
Mr. Marconi:
I do not recall that the regulations specify that the positions should be given of the ships which are called, but it does specify that they have to do everything in their power to assist, and I presume that includes what you have stated. It is several months since I have read the regulations of the Berlin convention.
Senator Smith:
At least, if they had known that the Frankfurt was within 50 miles they would have taken some comfort from the fact that they were not 500 miles off?
Mr. Marconi:
Certainly; it would have been of the greatest utility. I should also state that any ship of any country, even in a country which is not a party to the Berlin convention, would reply to that call, and would be morally bound to reply to that call.
8007. (To the Witness.) Mr. Cottam, you say you said "good night" to the Mount Temple operator? That is, at about half-past 10 Thursday night you said "Good night" to him?
- Yes, sir.
8008. But I have forgotten whether you said that the Mount Temple gave you her position at any time.
- I do not remember whether she did or not.
8009. Do you remember whether the Mount Temple replied to the C. Q. D. call of the Titanic that night?
- I do not think so. I did not hear her.
8010. The captain says they did; The captain says the Mount Temple replied to the C. Q. D. call of the Titanic.
- I heard nothing from the Mount Temple.
8011. What I am getting at is whether you picked up any message from the Mount Temple that night in addition to these other ships' messages that you have spoken of.
- No, sir. If the Mount Temple had replied, I would have been bound to have heard it, because there was not a sound in the air, and this communication of the Titanic was all that was going.
8012. When you got this message from the Titanic the Carpathia was about 58 miles from the Titanic's position?
- Yes, sir; about 58 or 60 miles.
8013. Why did the operator of the Titanic tell this other operator he was a fool and to keep out? Was it because he had not responded?
- Because if he had not done it he would have been a nuisance, as we were in good, satisfactory communication, and as he could not get satisfactory communication with the Frankfurt, and as he could not get satisfactory communication with the Frankfurt he tried elsewhere then.
8014. What would you have told him if you had been the operator on the Titanic?
- I should have told him the same.
8015. Regardless of whether he was a Marconi operator or a German independent operator?
- It does not matter what system. I don't care. When a man takes 20 minutes to answer in a case like that, when two hours is between life and death, it is about the only fit thing you can call him.
8016. Do you not think it would have been just as well, not knowing the position of the Frankfurt for the operator on the Titanic to have said "We are sinking"? It would not have taken any more words to say that than it did to say "You are a fool." -
- C. Q. D. is sent out with the position. When a man sends his position and C. Q. D. the first thing to do it to turn right around and steer for that position. The position of the Frankfurt to the Titanic did not matter at all.
8017. I know, but I would like to impress you with the seriousness of becoming flippant or discourteous in such an emergency as that. I am a little sorry to hear you say you would have made the same answer.
- Certainly I should under the same circumstances, because we were trying to get the Olympic, and we were trying to work the Olympic at that time. The Olympic was sending a message when he came in with "What as the matter?"
8018. You know that is a pretty big responsibility for you to exercise, not knowing the ship's position. As a matter of fact, suppose it should turn out that the Frankfurt was nearer than the Carpathia to the Titanic, and that that answer of the wireless operator prevented the Frankfurt or discouraged the Frankfurt from coming to the Titanic when that ship might have arrived an hour or longer before the Carpathia?
- I do not think she was nearer. I do not think she was nearer than the Carpathia.
8019. You do not know anything about that?
- Only by the strength of the signals; that is all.
8020. That is all you know about it?
- That is all, sir.
8021. My information does not agree with yours. The Carpathia had but one operator on this journey?
- That is all.
8022. While this conversation was going on between the Titanic and. the Olympic and the Carpathia and the Frankfurt, could the Frankfurt have heard all these messages?
- Certainly.
8023. It could?
- If she heard the first message from the ship, she ought to have heard all the communications from all the others. Apparently, she was not on watch.
8024. (Senator Newlands.) So it was not necessary to apprise her of all the details?
- No, sir.
8025. She could get direct details just as the other vessels to whom they were specially directed would receive them.
- Yes, sir. I got the message, and she ought to have done so, as apparently she was closer. Apparently she was closer, and she ought to have had it if I got it.
8026. When the Frankfurt's operator broke in at that time with that inquiry that you have regarded as unnecessary, that breaking in was interfering with the messages that the Titanic was giving, was it not?
- Yes, and interfering -
8027. (interposing.) That made the operator impatient?
- Yes.
8028. Regarding the interference?
- That is so.
8029. You and Bride received these Marconigrams, regarding the press story within half an hour of your docking?
- I believe one or two of them were received after we had docked.
8030. After you had docked?
- Yes.
8031. Then all the survivors of the disaster were accessible to the newspaper men?
- Lots of them got ashore before I got ashore.
8032. You say you waited at the Strand Hotel?
- Yes.
8033. An hour and a half?
- Yes.
8034. Did you see the reporter of the Times there?
- That is where I met reporter of the Times.
8035. You had to wait some time before you saw him?
- Yes.
8036. What was his name?
- I don't remember.
8037. You refused to communicate with him, then, until you got permission?
- Yes.
8038. During the time the survivors of the Titanic were on the Carpathia were your hands full of business?
- Yes.
8039. You had many messages to send, both on behalf of the ship and on behalf of the passengers on the ship, had you not?
- Yes, sir.
8040. That prevented you from attending to a great many inquiries that were made?
- Yes, sir. We got the inquiries on our side and could not attend them.
8041. You could not attend to them?
- No, sir.
8042. Were you able to dispatch all the messages which you received on board the Carpathia from the survivors and others on the ship?
- The survivors' messages? They handed messages in to me, you mean?
8043. Yes.
- No; I did not get them all off.
8044. You were not able to get them all off?
- No, sir.
8045. You were busy, were you?
- Yes, sir.
8046. Did you not have sufficient time, or was it because of lack of sufficient connections?
- No; I had not sufficient time; I could not do an impossibility. It was practically an impossibility to get them off.
8047. (Senator Smith.) Mr. Cottam, did you hear the testimony of Mr. Boxhall, of the Titanic, the officer who said he fired the rockets?
- No, sir; I did not.
8048. The night of the collision?
- No, sir; I did not hear that.
8049. And who said he tested out the Morse signals of distress and that he saw the lights of a boat ahead of him about 5 miles?
- I saw it in the paper, where a boat had been seen.
8050. You did not hear him swear?
- No, sir.
8051. Did you hear Mr. Lightoller, the second officer of the Titanic, say that he saw lights?
- No, sir; I was only in here yesterday for about 5 or 10 minutes.
8052. Suppose a boat in the vicinity of the Titanic, or any other boat on which you were an operator, replied to the C. Q. D. call after a lapse of 20 minutes and said, "What is the matter?" Do you wish us to understand that your reply would be to that kind of an inquiry, "You are a fool"?
- I should, under the circumstances, or I should have ignored him altogether.
8053. Suppose you ignored him altogether and did not answer his second inquiry is to what was the matter? Let me just call your attention to the situation: Suppose this boat that Boxhall and Lightoller and others seem to have seen ahead of the Titanic had replied after a C. Q. D. had been received, "What is the matter?" and that you had ignored them altogether?
- I should not give up a certainty for an uncertainty when I was working the certainty.
8054. Hold on until I get through. Suppose you had ignored them altogether and told the operator he was a fool, and suppose it had turned out that that ship you were talking with could have reached the side of the Titanic, and saved those 400 lives; do you not think your curt dismissal of the second inquiry would be a pretty big responsibility for you to assume?
- Perhaps it would; but if a man was making a nuisance of himself - if he had been a nuisance in the case, as you say, and he could not have got that C.Q.D. from the Titanic with the insulation he had, the best insulation in a merchant ship, he did not deserve to go to sea as an operator.
8055. All right. Let us go a little further than that. Suppose this ship that was just ahead of the Titanic, the Mount Temple, and was in sight of its officers from its deck, was itself stuck in a field of ice and could not at that moment move, would that change your view of your duty?
- You mean in sight of the Titanic? I do not understand it. I do not understand the question.
8056. (The question was repeated by the stenographer as above recorded.)
- I do not understand the question.
8057. Well, if the help, which was called for, and was within easy reach of the ship that was sinking, was itself struggling with the ice and quite busy and could not respond to the C. Q. D. call as promptly as you might think it ought to do, do you not think it would be desirable to explain to them the circumstances under which the message for help was sent?
- The operator on the ship has no duties on the bridge to perform, with regard to keeping a lookout or anything like that. His duty in a case of that description is to keep a constant watch -
8058. Wait a minute, now. Suppose that this ship was stuck in the ice herself and he was taking business for his captain.
- I know he was not, sir.
8059. How do you know he was not?
- Because, as I say, when the communication with the Titanic was going on there was not a sound otherwise.
8060. But you were passing from your room to the deck delivering these messages, along about half-past 10 Sunday night?
- About 5 minutes -
8061. Suppose that during the time you were temporarily absent from your apparatus a call had gone out from the Mount Temple that they were in the ice, and having a little difficulty - you would have missed it?
- If I had not been in the room, certainly I would have missed it.
8062. And therefore you would not know all that was taking place; and when you came back you might get the second message instead of the first one. And, as a matter of fact the only one you did get was the good-night message from the Mount Temple.
- That is right, sir. That was at 10.40 o'clock.
8063. I want to get into your mind the fact that there are people who were on the Mount Temple who say they saw the lights of the Titanic when it went down and there are people who were on the Titanic who say they saw the lights of a boat ahead when the Titanic was sinking, and in that situation it is no time to be flippant or discourteous, in such a responsible position as you held.
- I was not flippant. Nobody was flippant with the Mount Temple. The Mount Temple was off watch.
Senator Smith:
I understand that; you were not discourteous to the Mount Temple. But you say you would have made the same answer to the Mount Temple that was made to the Frankfurt if the Mount Temple had asked the question the Frankfurt asked.
I do not think I will pursue this any further. The only purpose I have is to call the attention of the wireless people to the necessity for some regulation which will insist that even a second call is entitled to respectful reply.
I think that is all for the present. You may step aside; but hold yourself subject to the committee's call.
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