6469. What did you do about it yourself? Did you arbitrarily select from the deck?
- You say "select." There was no such thing as selecting. It was simply the first woman, whether first class, second class, third class, or sixty-seventh class. It was all the same; women and children were first.
6470. You mean that there was a procession of women -
- The first woman was first into the boat, and the second woman was second into the boat, no matter whether she was a first class passenger or any other class.
6471. So there was a procession -
- A procession at both ends of the boat.
6472. Coming toward these lifeboats?
- Yes.
6473. Did that extend beyond the upper deck?
- No; no; there were only little knots around the deck, little crowds.
6474. Now, as they came along, you would pass them, one at a time, into the lifeboat? What orders did you have; to pass women and children?
- I simply shouted, "Women and children first; men stand back."
6475. Do you know how many women there were on the boat?
- I do not, sir.
6476. You put them aboard as they came along, the first being served first?
- The first, first; second, second.
6477. Regardless of class?
- Regardless of class, or nationality, or pedigree.
6478. If it happened to be a stewardess -
- Yes; just the same, if she was a woman.
6479. Or other woman employee?
- Any women.
6490. Or passenger; you made no distinction, but put them into the lifeboat?
- No distinction whatsoever. Even if we had wished to draw a distinction, to select them, as you might call it, we would not know who were the stewardesses and who were not.
6481. I have not asked you to go into that at all. I think you stated it very clearly, that you took the first woman who came and asked no questions. Now, when you filled lifeboat No. 5, did the women hesitate or demur about going in, or were they anxious to go?
- Well, I do not remember about that particular boat; but during the course of the evening I distinctly remember saying "One more woman," or "Two more women," or "Three more women," and they would step forward and I would pass them into the boat.
6482. Did you not ever call for women passengers and not get any?
- Mr. Murdoch said, "That will do," and it was stopped. Then, "Lower away."
6483. But you feel quite confident that there were 50 people in lifeboat No.
- (interposing): I do not, sir. I want you to understand that I can not judge with any degree of accuracy how many people there were in it.
6484. Let it stand that way. We will not talk about it; we will just let it stand that way.
- That was simply as near as I can judge.
6485. In loading boat No. 3, did you take the same course?
- Yes; the same proceedings.
6486. Did Officer Murdoch have charge of that boat?
- Yes; he was there up to the finishing of No. 3.
6487. Did Mr. Ismay assist in filling that boat?
- Yes; he assisted there, too.
6488. You found him there when you turned from No. 5 to No. 3?
- He was there, and I distinctly remember seeing him alongside of me - that is, by my side - when the first detonator went off. I will tell you how I happen to remember it so distinctly. It was because the flash of the detonator lit up the whole deck, I did not know who Mr. Ismay was then, but I learned afterwards who he was, and he was standing alongside of me.
6489. Did you say anything to him?
- I did not.
6490. You saw him in the flash -
- Of the detonator.
6491. Did you hear what Mr. Boxhall said about firing these rockets?
- No, sir.
6492. Did you hear any such thing?
- Any what, sir?
6493. Firing rockets.
- I am now speaking of it.
6494. I know you are and that is the reason I am asking you about it.
- Yes; they were incessantly going off; they were nearly deafening me.
6495. And you pursued the same course in loading lifeboat No. 3?
- No. 3; yes.
6496. How many women did No. 3 contain?
- I do not know, sir; I can not say.
6497. Do you know any of them?
- No, sir; I do not know any of them; not one.
6498. Have you learned since the boat was filled who any of them were?
- Since the boat was filled, no; because, as you know, one does not seem to be interested in anybody else's boat except his own; and when we were on board the Carpathia I would go around and see - well, I don't know. I suppose you might deem them your friends; I suppose you could. They were very suddenly brought together, and all that. I used to go around among them; and I knew my boat crew.
6499. Yes, that is quite unimportant. I want to get the number of women, if you can tell, who were put into lifeboat No. 3.
- I can not tell. I do not know.
6500. Or the number of men?
- I do not know, sir. I can not tell.
6501. Or the number of sailors?
- I know there must have been pretty nearly an equal percentage of men and women in No. 3.
6502. How do you know that?
- Because there were not many women there.
6503. Not many women there to respond?
- No, sir.
6504. And so you took men?
- Yes, sir; so as to get the lifeboats away.
6505. And you do not know what men were in No. 3?
- No, sir.
6506. Were there any officers in it?
- No. As I told you before, Mr. Pitman was either in No. 3 or No. 5; which one I do not know. [Pitman left in No. 5]
6507. But there were no other officers in lifeboat No. 3?
- No, sir.
6508. It was about equally filled with men and women, you say?
- I should say so.
6509. Any children in lifeboat No. 3?
- I do not know; I do not remember.
6510. Do you know whether any of those men who filled lifeboat No. 3 were of the crew; or were they passengers?
- I can not say.
6511. What is your judgment in regard to that?
- As far as I know - of course I gave preference to the male passengers, I should say, to the passengers rather than the crew. Do you understand me
6512. Yes. How many were there in lifeboat No. 3, in your opinion?
- I do not know, sir.
6513. Was it loaded?
- She was not very heavily loaded. I should say 40 to 45, maybe. We will say 40.
6514. The same sized boat as No. 5?
- The same sized boat; yes.
6515. Did you have any difficulty in lowering it?
- No, sir; absolutely none.
6516. Did you have any difficulty in manning her?
- No, sir, none.
6517. How did it happen that you did not put more people into lifeboat No. 3 than 45?
- There did not seem to be any people there.
6518. You did not find anybody that wanted to go?
- Those that were there did not seem to want to go. I hollered out, "Who's next for the boat?" and there was no response.
6519. Was the top deck crowded?
- No. There was a little knot of people on the forepart of the gymnasium door.
6520. Do you know whether the staircase was guarded that led up to the top floor?
- No.
6521. Were people permitted to roam as they desired over the ship?
- Everybody was free to go where they wanted to.
6522. No restraint?
- No restraint.
6523. And this applied to crew as well as to passengers?
- I suppose so.
6524. Did you hear Maj. Peuchen yesterday say that a large number of the coal stokers came up onto the deck and crowded back the women and a large officer came forward and drove them away?
- Yes; I heard the major say something to that effect.
6525. Did you see that?
- No, sir.
6526. Was there a large number of the crew, either stokers or otherwise, on the top deck at any time?
- I think I had four or five firemen in my boat; but I do not remember seeing a crowd of them. I will say that I did not see them.
6527. Tell me, if you can, how many men there were in lifeboat No. 3.
- I should say, maybe - I don't know - about 25.
6528. Have you ever seen any of them since then?
- No, sir.
6529. Did you know any of them at the time?
- No, sir.
6530. Then if you loaded lifeboat No. 3 with about 25 men and she contained altogether about 45 people, you had 25 men and 20 women?
- Yes; somewhere along there.
6531. Now, you wish us to understand that there were no women available?
- Not at that time. Whether there were women there and they would not get into the boat is a different matter. I do not know.
6532. Did you see any women there who would not leave their husbands -
- I saw some women there, but I did not have time to go and drive them away. I simply shouted, "Women and children."
6533. That is all apart. You do not need to say that; that simply takes time. Did you see any women, when you were loading lifeboat No.3, who were unwilling to be separated from their husbands and their families and refused to go into the lifeboat?
- Well, they did not respond to the call.
6534. So, after 45 people had been put into lifeboat No. 3 it was lowered?
- Yes.
6535. Did you help lower it?
- Yes.
6536. What did you do?
- I was standing at the side of the ship watching the after-end.
6537. Watching the after-end and was the boat lowered without difficulty?
- Yes.
6538. Did you see it when it struck the water?
- Yes; we lowered it right down into the water.
6539. And when it reached the water, did you see it again?
- No; I did not see it again.
6540. You are unable to say what officer, if any, had charge of it?
- It was Mr. Pitman -
6541. There is a possibility that it was Officer Pitman. That is all you are able to say?
- That is all I am able to say. I know it was nobody else -
6542. What did you do next?
- I went to the emergency boat.
6543. That is a smaller boat?
- Yes.
6544. How many will that hold?
- She is supposed to carry, I think, 40 - that is, floating.
6545. And how many lowering?
- I should say 30.
6546. Did you help fill that boat?
- Yes, sir.
6547. Do you know anybody that was in that boat?
- No; I think there were about five women. I think there were parties in this boat -
6548. Do you know who they were?
- No.
6549. What was the number of that boat?
- No. 1.
6550. How many women were there in No. 1?
- I do not know whether it was three - I suppose it would be about five.
6551. And how many men?
- I suppose there would be, about as near as I can judge, 22 men.
6552. Any children?
- I do not remember seeing any children.
6553. Do you know any of these men?
- I do not.
6554. Did you know any of them at the time?
- No, sir; I never met any of them.
6555. Do you know whether there was any officer in that boat?
- No; there was not any officer.
6556. Were there any sailors in that boat?
- I think there was a quartermaster, unless I am mistaken.
6557. What is his name?
- I do not know, sir.
6558. Is this the same boat that was referred to by Maj. Peuchen?
- Which boat did he refer to?
6559. I am asking you. He said there was a quartermaster in his boat. - No. I think it was boat No. 3 that he went in. We are now speaking of boat No. 1.
6560. How many sailors were in that boat?
- I think there were four or five.
6561. Who were the other men; were they passengers or members of the crew?
- The others were passengers.
6562. All passengers?
- Yes, sir; as far as I can remember; as far as I could make out.
6563. And all men?
- And all men.
6564. But you can not recollect anybody that was in that boat, with the possible exception of the quartermaster?
- No, I can not.
6565. Were you particular to see that some one was put in the boat who could handle it?
- As far as my own judgment could tell me; yes, sir. I remember asking, I remember I hollered down from the boat deck to the water and said, "Who is that in the emergency boat?" And I could not quite hear what he said.
6566. You mean that you helped load the emergency boat, No. 1, and lowered it down to the water, 70 feet below the place where you loaded it, before you asked who was in it?
- I knew that there was quartermaster in it, but I did not know his name.
6567. You waited until he got 70 feet below you?
- Yes.
6568. And then tried to ascertain his name?
- Yes.
6569. Was that the first attempt you had made to ascertain his name?
- As far as I remember.
6570. Did you ascertain his name?
- I heard something, but I do not remember what he said, now.
6571. And you do not know the name of any other person in lifeboat No. 1?
- That is the emergency boat, not lifeboat No. 1. It is emergency boat No. 1.
6572. How long did it take to lower a lifeboat, or an emergency boat, and clear her away - lower her into the water?
- I could not tell you how long it would take, because it varied.
6573. About how long?
- I do not know that I could tell you how long.
6574. Did it take 20 minutes; or approximately how long?
- Yes; I should say, from the start to finish of putting a boat over, until you get her into the water, it will take you somewhere about 20 minutes.
6575. And does that include uncovering the boat, taking the canvas or covering off of it?
- You will have to uncover it, and let go your gripes, and all that.
6576. I say, does that time include that?
- Yes.
6577. You had lowered 5 and 3 and 1. If it took you about 20 minutes on each, you were an hour in loading these 3 boats and getting them off?
- I do not know how long I was, sir, because I did not know the time, or anything else. I was anxious to do all I could to help everybody, and I did not know anything about time.
6578. Where did you next go?
- I next went across the deck.
6579. To the other side?
- To the other side, that is, the port side, and I met the sixth officer, Moody, and asked Moody, "What are you doing?" He said, "I am getting these boats away." So we filled both 14 and 16 with women and children.
6580. Which one did you fill first?
- No. 14. I did not fill 16; Moody filled 16.
6581. You filled 14?
- Yes.
6582. Was Mr. Lightoller, the second officer, there?
- He was there a part of the time, and he went away somewhere else. He must have gone to the second boat forward.
6583. Who had charge of the loading of lifeboat No. 14?
- I had.
6584. And how many people did you put into it?
- Fifty-eight.
6585. How many women; do you know?
- They were all women and children, bar one passenger, who was an Italian, and he sneaked in, and he was dressed like a woman. [Possibly Edward Ryan]
6586. Had woman's clothing on?
- He had a shawl over his head, and everything else; and I only found out at the last moment. And there was another passenger that I took for rowing.
6587. Who was that?
- That was a chap by the name of C. Williams.
6588. Where did he live?
- I do not know where he lived.
6589. Have you ever seen him since?
- Yes; I saw him since, on board the Carpathia.
6590. Was he one of the men whose names you have on that paper?
- I have his name; that is, his home address, but not his New York address.
6591. I would like his home address.
- I can give you that. Will you have it now?
6592. Yes; also the name of any other man or woman in the boat that you know, and their address.
- (referring to book). "C. Williams, racket champion of the world," he has here, "No. 2 Drury Road, Harrow-on-the-Hill, Middlesex, England."
){kind=link}
){kind=link}
){kind=link}
){kind=link}
){kind=link}
){kind=link}