5889. Could you not tell?
- No; I could not.
5890. When you first saw it, it was as large as these two tables?
- When we first saw it; that is about all.
5891. And it gradually grew in size?
- Yes, sir.
5892. Until you got right on it. Then, could you tell how large it appeared?
- No, sir.
5893. You say you helped to load No. 6 and No. 8 lifeboats on the port side?
- Yes, sir.
5894. Have you ever had any experience in loading boats of that kind; had you had any experience before that?
- We always do it on the White Star - practicing.
5895. You mean practicing or drill?
- Yes, sir.
5896. Had you ever had any practice kind on this ship?
- We had it the day of sailing, in Southampton.
5897. Did you participate in that?
- I went in one of the boats.
5898. You say that in No. 6 boat there were about 30 people, all told?
- As far as I can judge.
5899. How many were there in No. 8?
- It was too dark to count.
5900. But you saw them afterwards? You went in No. 6, did you not?
- But we did not count them. When she came alongside of the Carpathia we did not count them then.
5901. When you went alongside of the Carpathia it was broad daylight?
- Yes; but I did not trouble to count them.
5902. You just made an estimate that there were about 30 people?
- Yes.
5903. Do you think there were about the same number in lifeboat No. 8?
- I could not say. I do not know what number went in No. 8. As soon as I loaded No. 6 and No. 8, Mr. Lightoller made me get in No. 6 and ship the rudder and put the women in.
5904. Was No. 8 loaded after No. 6?
- It was.
5905. It was lowered after No. 6, was it?
- Yes.
5906. How many other boats did you see lowered?
- I not see any more, because as soon as we got in the water he made us pull for the light.
5907. Did you see any lowered before No. 6?
- No, sir.
5908. And that was the first time you had seen that light you pulled for?
- Yes, sir.
5909. Could you say whether or not you loaded all the people in No. 6 that could be safely loaded in the boat?
- Well, I loaded all the women; I got in No. 6 all the women that were knocking around the deck at that time, those who were around the boat at the time.
5910. Were there any women left on the deck who did not get in the boats?
- I did not see any. All what was there got in the boats. But they may have come up afterwards, when we were lowered. I could not say.
5911. Did you call for all that were about to come and get in the boats?
- Yes, sir.
5912. Were there any men left who did not get in the boats?
- Yes; there were men there, but the order was "only women."
5913. Did men ask to get into the boats?
- What is that?
5914. Did the men ask to be allowed to get into the boats?
- No.
5915. During the time you have been serving as lookout have you been accustomed to use glasses?
- Yes, sir.
5916. This was the first trip you had ever taken where you did not have glasses?
- Yes sir.
5917. Where did you ask for glasses?
- We asked for them before we left Southampton - if there was any glasses for the lookout - and they told us there was none intended for them. We had glasses in Belfast.
5918. Did you after that ask for glasses?
- Yes, sir; before the ship left Southampton.
5919. But I say, after that?
- There was no use asking for them when they told us that.
5920.Were there not glasses on the bridge and other parts of the ship?
- We did not know about that. We only knew that we had a pair in Belfast; and then, when we asked for them after that, they told us that there were none for us.
5921. What became of those glasses you had at Belfast?
- I do not know. I suppose they were on the bridge.
5922. (Senator Smith.) Do you remember the number of the lifeboat you were in?
- No.6.
5923. Who was the officer in the lifeboat?
- There was none. There was only me and Quartermaster Hichens.
5924. What is the name of the quartermaster, Hichens?
- Yes, sir.
5925. Is that the lifeboat that Maj. Peuchen was in?
- The gentleman that was speaking yesterday?
5926. The same one.
- The same one.
5927. Will you tell the committee, as far as you can, what the quartermaster did. Did he take charge of the lifeboat?
- He took charge.
5928. What did he do; where did he sit in the boat?
- At the tiller; at the tiller all the time.
5929. All the time?
- All the time.
5930. You are quite sure that a lady in that boat, a woman, did not have the tiller?
- I am sure of it; positive.
5931. A Mrs. Douglas?
- Nobody. Just the quartermaster who was there all of the time.
5932. You took an oar, I suppose?
- Yes, sir.
5933. And did Maj. Peuchen take an oar?
- He was right alongside of me. I was on the starboard side and he was on the port side.
5934. What other men were in the boat?
- We had a stowaway. Where he came from I do not know.
5935. When did you first see him?
- He was underneath the seat. We saw him as soon as we got clear He showed himself then.
5936. As soon as you got clear. How far clear? Half a mile or so?
- About a mile clear. We rested.
5937. You were resting?
- And some other boat [No. 16] came alongside of us, and the master-at-arms [Joseph Bailey] was in charge of that boat. We asked could he give us more men.
5938. What was the master-at-arms name?
- I could not say. He is the only one that survived.
5939. And you asked him if he could give you more men?
- Could he give us another man to help pull.
5940. What did he say?
- He gave us a fireman - one of the firemen.
5941. Did any women pull the oars in your boat?
- About two or three. One in the bow and the other two aft, in the stern.
5942. You say this stowaway came out when you were clear and resting?
- Yes, sir.
5943. When your oars were idle?
- No, sir; he showed himself as soon as ever we get clear of the Titanic.
5944. Did he take an oar?
- He managed to; but he could not use it on account of his bad arm. He had a bad arm.
5945. A broken arm?
- He had a bandage around it, and he said he could not put his oar in.
5946. Do you know who that man was?
- He was an Italian.
5947. This boat that came alongside gave you another man, did they?
- Yes, sir.
5948. And then did you separate from this other boat?
- No; we kept together for awhile, until we seen the lights of the Carpathia; then we proposed to pull for it.
5949. Did you do it?
- Yes, sir.
5950. How far toward it?
- I dare say she was about a mile off, or a little over.
5951. Did anybody propose to pull toward the place where the Titanic went down?
- All the women asked us to pull there, before she went down; but the quartermaster was in charge, and he would not allow it. He told us to keep on pulling.
5952. Did the women in your boat persist in their efforts to get him to go back to the scene of the wreck?
- They asked him, but he would not hear of it; he told us to keep on pulling.
5953. Did you say anything about it to the quartermaster?
- No; I never said a word; I just pulled an oar; I just kept quiet.
5954. At that time could you hear cries of distress?
- Very faint.
5955. Very many?
- All together, I suppose, a loud cry.
5956. Did you hear the man in charge of your lifeboat make any special comment on the crying?
- No, sir.
5957. But, as a matter of fact, you did not go in the direction of the Titanic at all, but the direction of the Carpathia?
- When we got the order from Mr. Lightoller to pull for the light, we were pulling for it; but when we found we could get no nearer and got a safe distance from the ship we stopped.
5958. That is, a safe distance from the Carpathia?
- From the Titanic; and we stayed there for about a quarter of an hour or a little over, until we sighted the Carpathia's lights, and then we pulled toward them.
5959. How far were you from the Titanic when you stopped?
- About a mile or a little over, because he come over the place where the Titanic sank.
5960. What makes you think it was a mile?
- Only surmising.
5961. That is your best judgment about it?
- I suppose so.
5962. How are you able to fix that fact in your mind, that you were a mile from the Titanic in this small boat?
- I heard people talk about it.
5963. Was that your own judgment, too?
- I have got no judgment.
5964. I understood you to say you had no judgment of distance at all -
- No more I have not.
5965. (continuing) When I was asking you about the iceberg?
- No more I have not.
5966. So you based your conclusion that you were a mile away upon what others told you?
- That is all.
5967. Could you tell how many ship's lengths you were away, Titanic ship's lengths?
- No; I could not.
5968. You could not tell that at all?
- No, sir.
Senator Smith:
I think that is all.
5969. Were the steam sirens blowing?
- Not as I know of.
5970. You did not hear them blow, at all?
- No, sir.
5971. Did you see the condition of the lifebelts on the ship?
- The condition of them?
5972. Yes.
- Yes; we all had one.
5973. Were they new?
- All new.
5974. All the lifebelts on the ship were new?
- I suppose so, for a new ship.
5975. You do not know whether they came from some other ship or not?
- No; I am not supposed to know that. They were all new.
5976. They were all new?
- Yes.
5977. And sound?
- Yes, sir.
5978. And in good order?
- Yes, sir.
5979. (Senator Smith.) Mr. Fleet; before you entered the employ of the White Star Line, were, you obliged to undergo any examination for eyesight? Did you have your vision tested, your eyesight tested?
- No; only when I was going on the lookout I had them tested.
5980. When did you have them tested last?
- About a year ago.
5981. About a year ago?
- Yes, sir.
5982. And you have not had your vision tested since?
- No, sir.
Senator Smith:
I think that is all. I wish you would hold yourself subject to the orders of the committee. You may go.
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