Senator Smith:
Senator Bourne, have you finished?
Senator Bourne:
Yes.
3176. (Senator Burton.) Mr. Franklin, the Titanic was divided into 15 compartments by transverse partitions, as I understand it?
- Right.
3177. Is there any way of telling how many of those different watertight compartments were opened up by this collision, or what is your best estimate, if there is no way of telling?
- I do not think there is any way of telling, from anything I have heard. You may find, in examining the officers - you might get some information on that subject, but I doubt if you will; and as far as I am concerned, I do not think you can estimate. I think - it might be a guess - five or six.
3178. That is your best estimate?
- We can show you the general plan of the Olympic, which would show you those compartments.
3179. Mr. Franklin, you were quoted in the papers of the afternoon of Monday as saying there was a sufficient number of lifeboats on the Titanic to take away all the passengers and crew on board - did you make any such statement as that?
- I do not remember making any statement of that kind, because I do not think anybody thought there were enough lifeboats to move the entire ship's company, passengers and crew, at the same time - to accommodate them all. Here are the various compartments (indicating on plan). here is a plan of the steamer, showing the various compartments. How many of those were damaged and how many were admitting water immediately it is impossible for me to give you the slightest information. Anything I might say to you would simply be a guess.
Senator Burton: That is all, Mr. Chairman.
3180. (Senator Fletcher.) I have just a few questions. When was the International Mercantile Marine Co. organized?
- In 1902, sir.
3181. A foreign corporation?
- The International Mercantile Marine Co. is a New Jersey corporation.
3182. You have held the position of vice president, then, since it was organized?
- Not immediately. My recollection is about six or seven months after the organization was completed.
3183. Prior to that time were you connected with any shipping interests?
- I was connected with the Atlantic Transport Line, which is a subsidiary company of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
3184. Your position is the highest office in that company in America?
- In America; yes, sir.
3185. Mr. Ismay's official relation is what?
- He is president of that company.
3186. He is managing director, also, of the White Star Line?
- Of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co., which is the White Star Line.
3187. This position of managing director is one which rather combines both the duties of a president and also a general manager of a corporation, does it not?
- Yes, sir; he is the head of the particular corporation, absolutely.
3188. So that he was the highest official of that corporation on board the Titanic at the time she went down?
- Right, sir.
3189. Did you know when it was intended to have the Titanic arrive at New York?
- I had not the slightest idea. I never had any advices on when the Titanic was expected to arrive in New York.
3190. Your office had no communication, then, with respect to the time it was expected the Titanic would arrive?
- No, sir.
3191. You heard nothing either from Belfast or from Southampton?
- From nobody.
3192. Do you know whether or not the Titanic reported from time to time during the progress of the voyage to Southampton or Belfast?
- That I could not tell you. I would have no knowledge of that, whatsoever.
3193. Would that be customary?
- She might report for the first day out to Southampton or Liverpool just where she was, as a matter of form.
3194. Do you know whether the Olympic, for instance; reports on such a voyage as that?
- As a rule the steamers do not report except as they are arriving. After they have left the port, as a rule, they do not make any further reports. It is only with a view of being able to advise the friends of passengers, and so forth, regarding the meeting of the ship that that is done.
3195. Do you know why the communication that was sent in to Cape Race was sent there rather than direct to your office in New York?
- For a long time these communications have been sent to the telegraph companies themselves with a view of that being the quickest way to send that information throughout to those who are interested, and report it to the papers and the maritime exchanges, and so forth. A little later on frequently we get information; when the ship approaches Nantucket, for the sake of argument, or Siasconsett. We might then get a telegram ourselves from the captain saying he is in such and such position and expects to arrive at Sandy Hook at such and such a time, so that we can make arrangements for receiving them at the dock and notify the friends of passengers. It is a pure matter of form; it is a routine business.
3196. As I understand, about 20 minutes before 2 on Monday morning, the reporter rang you up, and said that they had heard the Titanic was sinking , and this came through the steamship Virginian - that information?
- That was reported to me at that time.
3197. Via Montreal?
- So it was reported to me.
3198. Can you recall how long it was after that before you had confirmation of that report?
- As I say, I immediately got the dock. Then I at once got the Associated Press, who confirmed the report. Then I got Montreal on the telephone, and I would say in about an hour, or probably three-quarters of an hour, they confirmed that information over the telephone.
3199. What line did the Olympic belong to?
- The Olympic belonged to the White Star Line.
3200. And the Virginian?
- The Virginian belongs to the Allen Line.
3201. That is a competing line?
- That is a competing line. When I say a "competing line," all trans-Atlantic lines are more or less competing, but it is a line running between Canada and England, as a general proposition. Some steamers go to Boston.
3202. And the Baltic?
- The Baltic is a steamer owned by the White Star Line, the same line. The Baltic was bound east and had passed the scene of the disaster.
3203. You spoke of your marine superintendent this morning, but you did not name him or give his address. Can you do that?
- That was in connection with the Board of Trade inspection, and the marine superintendent, who would have had charge of the Board of Trade inspection of this ship, would be the man located in Southampton. His name is Capt. Steele.
3204. The home office of the White Star Line is here?
- In Liverpool.
3205. The Titanic was registered where?
- I think she was registered in Liverpool.
Senator Fletcher:
That is all.
3206. (Senator Newlands.) Mr. Franklin; how did the speed of the Titanic compare with that of the Lusitania and the Mauretania?
- The speed of the Titanic, as I understand she was running, was between 3 and 4 miles less than the speed of the Mauretania and the Lusitania.
3207. Less than the maximum speed?
- Less than some of their average voyages, I am taking it, and it was never thought by anybody that the Titanic would anything like equal the speed of the Mauretania and the Lusitania; it was never expected by anyone.
3208. She had not been put up to her maximum speed on this occasion?
- My understanding is that she had never been run at her maximum speed.
3209. What is the customary speed of these fast steamers in going through fog?
- That is entirely under the control and the jurisdiction of the captain, and it is one man's opinion against another man's. It is what the captain of the steamer at the time thinks a prudent speed, considering the density of the fog, and so forth, and anything else he has to govern him.
3210. No rules regarding these matters are laid down by the steamship companies?
- Yes; the steamship companies have very stringent rules. I think the fairest thing is to read off the White Star rule covering just that sort of a point.
3211. Do you have rules covering the question of ice as well as fog?
- It covers everything that the commander thinks is in anyway hazardous. It is a general rule.
3212. Read the rule.
- It is rule 101, Mr. Burlingham says. It is as follows:
Commanders must distinctly understand that the issue of these regulations does not in any way relieve them from the responsibility for the safe and efficient navigation of their respective vessels, and they are also enjoined to remember that they must run no risk which might by any possibility result in accident to their ship. It is to be hoped that they will ever bear in mind that the safety of the lives and property intrusted to their care is the ruling principle that should govern them in the navigation of their vessels and that no supposed gaining of expedition or saving of time on the voyage is to be purchased at the risk of accidents. The company desires to maintain for its vessels a reputation for safety and only looks for such speed on the various voyages as is consistent with safe and prudent navigation. Commanders are reminded that the steamers are to a great extent uninsured and that their only livelihood, as well as the company's, depends upon immunity from accident. No precaution which insures safe navigation is to be considered excessive.
Adding to that, I would like to say that I do not believe there is any company crossing the Atlantic that carries such a large proportion of its own insurance as the subsidiary companies of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
3213. It is not unusual to have fog the larger part of the way across the ocean, is it?
- Well, I would say that it would be most unusual to have it the larger part of the way. They may have it for a day or two.
3214. For a day or two?
- Something like that, or possibly longer.
3215. Do you know what the custom of these fast ships is when going through fog?
- Again, the only thing I can say to that is that it depends upon the commander; it depends upon the man himself and the condition of the fog. I have no accurate information at all on that subject. It is not a matter that comes under our jurisdiction, or a matter that we, who are not the operating people, go into in detail. But they take every possible precaution that they think is necessary, and none of our commanders, I am sure, from all the conversations and so on that I have had with them ever have any idea that the company wants records made.
3216. What is your view from your experience on these ocean trips; is it not the fact that on these fast steamers every trip through fog involves considerable risk?
- Of course there is not any doubt that whenever you are in fog there is more or less risk - a fog or a snowstorm - but nevertheless with the ocean tracks that are used, all ships going one way using one track and all ships coming the other way using the other track, and with the wireless telling exactly where on the sea the larger ships are, that risk has been reduced.
3217. The dangers that are to be encountered are the danger of collision and the danger of icebergs?
- The danger of collision and the danger of icebergs.
3218. The danger of icebergs, of course, is the more infrequent condition?
- The more infrequent, and of course it is difficult to say about that, because you may have a sailing vessel or something of that kind crossing the track.
3219. (Senator Smith.) This morning you spoke of the firm of Ismay & Imrie. Do you know what firm that is?
- It was the managing firm of the White Star Line, and when the business of the White Star Line was purchased the business of Messrs. Ismay & Imrie as managers was also included in the purchase, and now you might call it a trade name as much as anything else. It is an empty shell as it stands today.
3220. There is no corporate organization?
- I don't think so; I think it is a firm, a copartnership.
3221. What was their business?
- They were the agents and managers of the White Star Line.
3222. (Senator Bourne.) Was the White Star Line ever a corporation, or has it always been just a name, a designation?
- The White Star Line might be compared in that respect to the Pennsylvania Railroad. The Pennsylvania Railroad is nothing but a trade name-
3223. And the White Star was only a trade name?
- A trade name; yes.
3224. You made some mention of the eastward track and the westward track for ships going east and west.
- I did.
3225. What is the width in miles of the tracks?
- The distance apart?
3226. Yes.
- I think it is about 60 miles.
3227. Sixty miles is allowed as the width of each track?
- The tracks are 60 miles apart, and you are supposed to stay on the track.
3228. That is under agreement between the different companies?
- That was a matter that was submitted to all the experts of all the different companies, considered by all the different companies, and agreed upon after having taken the very best advice upon the situation they could.
3229. And the Titanic was in her proper track?
- The Titanic was in her proper track, and the captain of the Carpathia testified that the Titanic was in the exact position that she ought to have been on the track.
3230. Do none of the trans-Atlantic liners carry a searchlight?
- I have never heard of it.
3231. Do you not think it would be an improvement if they did, in view of the experience they have had?
- Well I do not know. If it was up to me, I would rather get the advice of the technical people; I would rather ask the marine superintendents and the captains. I do not know just where it could be located to advantage. The idea always is not to have the light shining forward, because we have on each ship, as this ship had, three officers on the bridge, each one of whom had an officer's certificate, a master's certificate.
3232. They could not pierce the darkness of the fog.
- I say you would have to be careful where you should locate such a light, so as not to prevent the officers on watch from seeing ahead. That is a matter of investigation and practical people ought to give you that.
3233. The steamer was going about 21 knots at the time?
- All I know about it is what I have heard. I have no information on that at all.
3234. Going at such a speed, have they any evidence as to the time required to stop?
- They have that.
3235. In what distance could she be stopped?
- I could not tell you that, but the builders could give you all that.
3236. (Senator Smith.) In making your answer to my inquiry this morning regarding the telegraphic and wireless communication between yourself and the officers of your ship and the officers of other ships and the passengers and crew of other ships, did your answer include all cable messages as well as cablegrams and wireless messages?
- We did not send any cable message asking for any information or anything of that kind, regarding the position of any ship or anybody on any ship.
3237. Did you send any relating to this matter at all?
- Yes, sir.
3238. To whom?
- Liverpool; We send them various cables.
3239. And you have copies of them?
- Yes, sir. I will put them in as a whole or read them off, whichever you like.
3240. You may file these messages with the reporter, unless there is some one which you desire to explain.
- There is nothing here that there is anything we could do to explain. They are only advising them of whatever we had; that is really all they are. You might glance through them and see if anything strikes you.
Senator Smith:
Senator Bourne, will you kindly examine those papers to see if there is anything important in them (handing papers to Senator Bourne). That will be all at the present time, Mr. Franklin, and you may hold yourself subject to the orders of the committee.