Mr. Franklin was sworn by the chairman.
2807. (Senator Smith) What is your full name?
- Philip A. S. Franklin.
2808. And where do you reside?
- I reside in New York.
2809. What is your business?
- I am the vice president in the United States of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
2810. How old are you?
- Forty-one years of age.
2811. What composes the International Mercantile Marine Co.?
- In a general way, the International Mercantile Marine Co., through its various ramifications, owns the White Star Line, the American Line, the Red Star Line, the Atlantic Transport Line, and the National Line, and the majority of the stock of the Leyland Line.
2812. What is the capitalization of your company?
- The capitalization, in round numbers, is $100,000,000 between the preferred and common shares; $52,000,000 of 4 1/2 per cent bonds; about $19,000,000 of 5 per cent bonds, and some underlying bonds, amounting to about $7,000,000.
2813. What is the business of the company?
- The business of the company is that they own steamers which are operating in various trans-Atlantic and trans-oceanic trades, carrying freight and passengers.
2814. Does the International Mercantile Marine own the White Star Line or control it?
- The International Mercantile Marine Co. owns or controls the International Navigation Co. (Ltd.) of England, which company owns the shares of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co., which company owns the White Star steamers.
2815. How many ships are there in the White Star Line, so-called?
- I could not tell you that, but I have a record here that could give you the information. We will produce an annual report which will show that. We can come back to that, Senator. It will have to be worked out of our report.
2816. I will pass for the moment, that inquiry, and ask if you can give us a detailed statement of the owners, officers, and directors of those various companies composing the International Mercantile Marine Co.?
- I could not do that in detail without looking it up for you, because a great many of the companies are located abroad; but I can give you the directors of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
2817. Can you do so now?
- Yes, sir.
These are the directors: C. A. Griscom, E. C. Grenfell, John I. Waterbury, the Right Honorable Lord Pirrie, George W. Perkins, Charles Steel, J. Bruce Ismay, Percy Chubb, E. J. Berwind, Harold A. Sanderson, P. A. B Widener, Charles F. Torrey, J. P. Morgan, jr.
2818. Who are the officers of that company?
- The officers are: President, J. Bruce Ismay; vice presidents, E. C. Grenfell, Harold A. Sanderson, and P. A. S. Franklin.
2819. Where do the officers of the company reside?
- Mr. Ismay, the president, resides in Liverpool; Mr. Grenfell resides in London; Mr. Sanderson resides in Liverpool; Mr. Franklin resides in New York.
2820. Do you hold any position in the International Mercantile Marine Co.?
- I hold the position of vice president, in America, of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
2821. And, as such officer, have you jurisdiction over the affairs of that company in America?
- Yes, sir.
2822. Does any other person share the responsibility with you here?
- Not directly. Of course, we have certain members of the board of directors here, who have meetings here, and we have a finance committee who meet here, but as far as the management of the company in its business is concerned I have nobody except the various assistants that we have all the way through.
2823. Subordinate to you?
- Subordinate to me.
2824. Will you state to the committee what jurisdiction and authority you have, if any, over the movement and direction of the ships of your company?
- We have no authority or jurisdiction over the movement or direction of the ships of our company after they have left the dock of any port in the United States or Canada.
If we should at any time have any instructions regarding the actual policy of the ship, we would receive these from the home office in England and that would be given the commander of the steamer in dock here.
We have nothing to do with the ships in the way of giving the commander instructions regarding the navigation, or anything of that kind, of the ship, except what is passed to us by the owners of the ships. We are simply agents.
2825. How long have you been an officer of this company?
- Since 1902, I think it is.
2826. Have you ever filled any other position than the one you now occupy with your company?
- When the company was first formed, I was in charge of the business of the Atlantic Transport Line, which is a subsidiary of the International Mercantile Marine Co., but I was not then an officer, immediately, of the International Mercantile Marine Co. Shortly after its formation, however - I should say six or eight months after - I was made a vice president of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
2827. Are you a navigator by profession?
- Not at all, sir.
2828. Have you ever had any experience in that regard?
- Not the slightest.
2829. Do you know Mr. Ismay?
- I do, sir.
2830. How long have you known him?
- I have known Mr. Ismay, I should say, since about 1895 or 1897; possibly a little earlier.
2831. Have you had occasion to confer with him regarding the affairs of your company?
- Constantly, since 1902.
2832. Did these conferences take place in the United States?
- Some conferences take place in the United States and some conferences in Liverpool.
2833. Did you know Capt. Smith, of the Titanic?
- I did.
2834. How long had you known him?
- I had known him ever since I have been connected with the International Mercantile Marine Co.; and I knew him before that, because I had crossed on one or two steamers under his command along about 1898 to 1900. Then, however, I was not in any way officially connected with the company.
2835. Will you tell the committee what ships of your company were commanded by the late captain of the Titanic?
- He commanded the Majestic, the Adriatic, the Olympic, and the Titanic. That I am sure of. I am not sure of the steamers he may have commanded between the Majestic and the Titanic.
2836. Is the Baltic one of your ships?
- Yes.
2837. He commanded the Baltic, had he not?
- I think he did, but I would not say positively. I think he did.
2838. When did you last see him?
- I last saw Capt. Smith when he was here on the Olympic in February.
2839. February of this year?
- Of this year; yes, sir.
2840. Have you seen or heard from him since that time, directly?
- I have never seen nor heard from him directly, no, sir, since that time.
2841. So far as you know, did the subordinate officers of your company attempt to and succeed in obtaining any communication from him on his last voyage from Southampton to New York or to the point of this disaster?
- We never had the slightest communication of any kind from the captain of the Titanic on the last voyage or from the time he left Belfast.
2842. From the time he left Belfast after the trial trip?
- We had no word of the trial trip or anything regarding the trial trip.
2843. You know nothing directly of the test at Belfast Lough?
- No.
2844. And you have had no communication and, so far as you know, your subordinates had had no communication with him after he left Belfast with the Titanic?
- No; that is quite right. We did not have.
I want to make it perfectly clear. We naturally received cables from Southampton; we received a cable when the- ship left Belfast; we received a cable when the ship arrived Southampton. Those cables, however, were not sent by the captain of the steamer; they were sent by the officers.
2845. By what officer?
- By the Southampton office; by the agent, in other words, in Southampton.
2846 Advising you of the departure of the Titanic?
- No; the Southampton cable advised us of the arrival of the Titanic.
2847. From Belfast Lough?
- From Belfast Lough. That was simply a routine matter.
2848. So far as you know did you or did any of your subordinate officers in this country receive any communication from any officer of the Titanic after she left Southampton?
- No, sir.
2849. Did you or any of your subordinates receive any communication from Mr. Ismay after or immediately preceding the departure of the Titanic from Southampton?
- I sent to Mr. Ismay as the steamer was running between Southampton and Queenstown simply a bon voyage message: "Successful future to the Titanic and successful voyage also to yourself," or something to that effect.
2850. Have you a copy of that message?
- I do not think I have a copy of it with me. I can have it sent over to you, Senator.
2851. I wish you would do so.
- Will you have a record made of everything you want from us?
2852. Yes.
- And I can give you a copy of Mr. Ismay's reply.
2853. So far as you can now recollect, what did he say?
- Simply: "Much appreciate your message," or something to that effect.
2854. Was this a wireless or a cable message?
- It was sent by cable.
2855. Did you receive any communication from any officer, director, passenger or member of the crew of the Titanic, by wireless, after the Titanic left Southampton and up to the time she sank in the sea?
- Not a word or communication of any kind or description except this: We had the regular wire that comes through the regular channel from Cape Race or through Cape Race, that advised us that on Sunday morning the Titanic was 550 miles southeast of Cape Race. That is a matter that comes through the press also.
2856. Was that an official communication?
- It is semiofficial. It is sent to the press also. We receive an advice, and the press gets it for the newspapers and for the records.
2857. But you have no exclusive control over that kind of a communication?
- No; we do not get an exclusive communication. To the best of my knowledge that was telephoned to me by one of our people on Sunday morning as a matter of information.
2858. Sunday morning preceding the collision?
- Sunday morning preceding the collision.
2859. That was the only attempt at communication with that ship, and so far as you know, the only attempt by its officers, passengers or crew, from the time they left Southampton until the accident occurred?
- Absolutely.
2860. I show you a telegram which I will read in order that the record may contain it. It is dated New York, N. Y , April, 15, 1912. It is addressed to "J. A. Hughes, Huntington, W. Va." It reads as follows:
Titanic proceeding to Halifax. Passengers will probably land there Wednesday; all safe.
WHITE STAR LINE
I ask you whether you know anything about the sending of that message, or by whom it was authorized, or from whom it emanated?
- I do not, sir. And since this was mentioned at the meeting in New York on Saturday, we have had our entire passenger staff in No. 9 Broadway office asked, and we can not find out who sent that message. Now, what we would appreciate your committee doing is to have the telegraph company deliver to you the message received from the White Star Line, and let us see where they got it and when they got it, and what station it was delivered to. I think it is only fair for us to explain, in connection with that, that we have a great many people naturally employed in the passenger department of our No. 9 Broadway office. The office was very crowded on Monday morning, and a good many of the juniors were answering communications, to the best of their ability, by telephone, and otherwise, and it might be, possibly, that that telegram was sent by one of these juniors, from something he had gotten, either from the newspaper or something of that kind, but so far as the White Star Line or its officials were concerned, the officials did not authorize anything of that kind, nothing of that kind was authorized, and we were very guarded in advising everybody that the only authentic information we were receiving about the horrible disaster was what we were getting - and we had gotten one message - through Capt. Haddock, of the Olympic.
2861. At the time that telegram was sent did you know the actual condition of the Titanic?
- What is the time of that telegram? I think we ought to fix that question of time. It is headed 8:27 P.M. At 8:27 P.M. on Monday I knew that the Titanic sank at 2:20 A.M.
2862. Monday morning?
- Monday morning.
2863. When did you first get that information, and from whom?
- The date ought to be fixed.
2864. (Mr. Burlingham.) That may be the date of the receipt.
- I am taking that hour. In replying to the question I am using that hour. Would you like me to give you a statement, to the best of my ability, of how we heard and when we heard and what we did?
2865. (Senator Smith.) I would, from the first. If you have any memoranda or any of the telegrams I wish you would have them marked for identification and filed with the committee.
- I would like to put them right in the record.
2866. Go ahead.
- At about 2 minutes of 2 on Monday morning I was aroused by the telephone bell ringing. I went to the telephone, and a reporter - I could not tell from what paper - said that they had just heard that the Titanic was sinking, and that she had sent out a call for assistance. I asked them how they had gotten this message, and they told me that they had received it through the steamship Virginian and from Montreal. I immediately called up our dock and asked them if they had heard anything at all. They told me that several reporters had called them up.
2867. Where were you at this time?
- At my own house, No. 41 East Sixty-first Street. They told me that the reporters had been trying to give them some information about the Titanic. I said, "Have you heard anything authentic about the Titanic? He told me "No." I then called up the Associated Press, the office of the Associated Press; they reported to me practically about what the reporter had told me. I then asked them whether they could not hold the matter and not give out such an alarming report until they could see whether it could be confirmed. They said, "No; it has gone out." I then called up Montreal on the long-distance telephone. I got our representative on the telephone in Montreal and asked him if he could not get the Allan Line office and find out if this could be confirmed, and what they had, and call me on the telephone immediately. I then called up about four or live of our own people and told them I had this information. I wanted to get in touch with them and have them stand by. I got Mr. Ridgway, the head of our steamship department, who lived in Brooklyn, and I asked him to at once go out and send a Marconigram to the captain of the Olympic. I did not want to alarm the captain of the Olympic. So all I asked in that telegram was, "Can you get the position of the Titanic? Wire us immediately her position." I can read you that telegram. I then asked all of our important people to immediately report at the office. When we got to the office the first thing that I found there was this memorandum. (Reading from memorandum:)
Titanic. Received from Associated Press from Cape Race 3.05 A.M. Monday, April 15. 10.25 P.M. E. S. T., Titanic called C. Q. D.; reported having struck iceberg and required immediate assistance. Half an hour afterwards, reported that they were sinking by the head. Women were being put off in boats and weather calm and clear. Gave position as 41.46 north, 50.14 west. Stop this station. Notified Allan liner Virginian, who immediately advised he was proceeding toward scene of disaster. Stop. Virginian at midnight stated was about 170 miles distant from Titanic and expected reach there about 10 A.M. Olympic, at 4.24 P.M. G. M. T. in latitude 40.32 north, longitude 61.18 west, was in direct communication with Titanic and is now making all haste toward her. Baltic, at 1.15 A.M. E. S. T. reported himself as about 200 miles east of Titanic, and was also making toward her. Last signals from Titanic were heard by Virginian at 12.25 A.M. E. S. T. He reported them blurred and ending abruptly.
Then we worked out the positions. In the first place, I received before leaving the house a reply from Montreal, saying that the Allan Line unfortunately confirmed the record. We worked out the positions then to the best of our ability, and the Titanic we found 1,080 miles from New York, about 600 miles from Halifax; the Olympic we found, in our opinion, to be about 364 miles from the Titanic, and the Baltic we thought could reach her at 4 P.M. I do not know how far the Baltic was away.
2868. How did you find the location of these various ships?
- We worked out the Olympic roughly in our own minds.
2869. On a scale?
- We had the chart.
2870. And from the chart you worked them out? But did any of these ships report their exact location?
- We had no communication at that time from any ship or anybody which in our opinion was authentic. We had numerous rumors from all sources.
2871. Did they pretend to give you their location?
- They did not. I will read you the first message sent to the Olympic, the one I referred to a few minutes ago. This was sent at 3 A.M.
Make every effort to communicate Titanic and advise position and time. Reply to Ismay, New York.
2872. Please say to whom that was addressed.
- To Haddock, Olympic.
2873. Please give the date.
- April 15, 3 A.M.
2874. And give the hour in each case. Now, in order that we may be sure the committee understands that, please read that again.
- This was our first endeavor to communicate with any of our steamers, and the first attempt that we know, either one way or the other. This was our telegram to Capt. Haddock, of the Olympic, sent at 3 A.M. on April 15, as follows:
Make every endeavor to communicate Titanic and advise position and time. Reply to Ismay, New York.
The telegram was sent from Brooklyn by Mr. F. W. Ridgway. I telephoned it to him and asked him to go right out and send it.
Senator Smith:
Proceed.
2875. (Senator Fletcher.) Where was Capt. Haddock - where was the Olympic?
- The Olympic had sailed from New York Saturday afternoon at 3 o'clock, bound east.
2876. (Senator Smith.) What was the position of the boat?
- I can only give you our estimate of the position which, at 3 o'clock, was 320 miles east of Sandy Hook and about 360 miles, in our estimate, from the Titanic.
2877. Proceed.
- All during the morning - from that time on -
2878. Monday morning?
- Monday morning. We were endeavoring to communicate or get some information from Montreal, from Halifax, from the various papers, and we wired to the commander of the Olympic:
Keep us fully posted regarding Titanic.
That was 6.05 A.M. We had received no reply from him at all. Then we got a telegram from the Olympic.
Since midnight, when her position was 41.46 north, 50.14 west, have been unable to communicate. We are now 310 miles from her, 9 A.M. under full power. Will inform you at once if hear anything.
COMMANDER
2879. Did you understand from that that they were headed toward the Titanic?
- I understood that they were headed toward the Titanic, without any question. That was 9 A.M.
2880. Monday?
- Monday, 310 miles from the Titanic.
2881. Proceed.
- We followed that with a telegram, as follows:
Can you ascertain damage Titanic?
2882. What hour was that?
- That is not the original of that. There is no hour on that, but that was sent in the morning.
2883. Sent by whom?
- That was sent by me.
2884. Had you no information at that time regarding the sinking of the Titanic?
- Absolutely none; most emphatically. I have read you off the first telegram from Haddock. Now, this is the second telegram.
2885. Give the date and hour.
- April 15. We do not know what hour this was received, but it was after noon. It was between 12 and 1 o'clock, or around 1 o'clock. That could probably be traced - exactly when that was delivered to us.
Parisian reports Carpathia in attendance and picked up 20 boats of passengers and Baltic returning to give assistance. Position not given.
2886. Position of Baltic not given?
- Position of Baltic not given. This message was received along about 1 o'clock.
2887. Signed by whom?
- Signed by Haddock.
2888. All right, proceed.
- We replied to that as follows:
HADDOCK, Olympic: April 15, 1912.
Thanks your message. We have received nothing from Titanic, but rumored here that she proceeding slowly Halifax, but we can not confirm this. We expect Virginian alongside Titanic; try and communicate her.
2889. Who signed that?
- I did.
2890. What hour was that?
- That was in reply to the other message, immediately after we got it. It must have been about 2 o'clock -