4046. In the early morning, at the dawn - daybreak?
- No; at daybreak they looked quite black.
4047. Was it after daybreak when you got alongside of the Carpathia?
- Day was breaking. I only saw them a little while before I got to the Carpathia.
4048. Do you care to correct your statement that they appeared white when you last saw them?
- They did not appear white when I first saw them.
4049. How did they appear?
- They appeared black.
4050. After you boarded the Carpathia, while she was cruising around the scene of the wreck, did you see other icebergs?
- Oh, yes.
4051. How many?
- I could not say. There were numerous icebergs; that is the easiest way or the best way to express it.
4052. Did you distinguish between an iceberg and a growler, or are they the same thing in the language of mariners?
- Yes, I do make a distinction between an iceberg and a growler.
4053. Let us have that distinction.
- As I understand a growler, it is a low-lying iceberg.
4054. Partially submerged?
- They are all submerged; but I mean one lying, it might be, very largely on the surface of the water, but not high; it might be large or it might be small, but it is low lying.
4055. And the larger it gets -
- Then it gets to be an iceberg.
4056. There is another kind of ice that you encounter -
- Field ice.
4057. Off the Grand Banks. - Yes.
4058. What is that?
- Field ice is a lot of ice all together.
4059. Like a raft?
- Yes; not unlike a raft, I should say. It is a large expanse of ice covering the water.
4060. Level with the surface?
- No, a little above the surface.
4061. Rising above the surface?
- Just a little above the surface.
4062. And extending over how great an area? I suppose they vary, but how great an area have you seen covered?
- With ice?
4063. With ice, on the sea, in the vicinity of the Grand Banks.
- This is the first time that I have seen field ice on the Grand Banks.
4064. You have never seen it on the Grand Banks before?
- No.
4065. And you have been on the Grand Banks before?
- Oh, yes.
4066. How often?
- I have been running to New York since I was 19 years of age.
4067. And you have never seen any field ice?
- I have seen icebergs, but have never seen any field ice before.
4068. Was the ship on its usual course?
- Yes.
4069. Have you ever crossed at this time of the year before?
- Oh, yes; many times.
4070. Can you tell what the theory of the navigator is as to where the icebergs and growlers and field ice come from?
- As far as I understand, they come from the Arctic region.
4071. What are they composed of, if you know?
- Some people who have been very close to them tell me that they have seen sand and gravel and rocks and things of that kind in them.
4072. Rocks and other substances?
- And earth. I have never been close enough to see that.
4073. I suppose you mean the icebergs, when you say that?
- The icebergs; yes, sir.
4074. And those icebergs are supposed to come from the Arctic regions?
- Yes; so I believe.
4075. And float down into the open sea?
- Yes.
4076. How far east have you ever seen them?
- I do not know how far east I have seen them. It has been many years since I have seen any, until this time.
4077. Is it understood by mariners and navigators that they are more frequent in the latitude of the Grand Banks?
- Around 50 west; 47 to 50 west, I think, as near as I can remember.
4078. From 47 to 50 west they are known to exist?
- Yes.
4079. And it is customary to be particularly careful in that vicinity?
- Oh, yes, sir.
4080. Well, how did it happen that in that identical vicinity it was not thought necessary to increase the lookout?
- I do not know. The lookout may have been increased; I can not say. I was busy most of the watch in the chart room, making calculations.
4081. As far as you know of your own knowledge, it was not?
- I did not hear any extra lookouts reported as being put on.
4082. You did not see any extra officers that night, forward on the bridge deck?
- No.
4083. How far did the Carpathia run on Monday before she was out of sight of the icebergs?
- I could not say.
4084. Were you not observing the situation?
- No, sir.
4085. Between the time that you left the Titanic and the time morning dawned did you see any icebergs?
- No, sir; but I know that they were there.
4086. You knew they were there?
- Yes; sir.
4087. Any growlers?
- I saw nothing; but I heard the water on the ice as soon as the lights went out on the ship.
4088. That water, you think, was on the ice, after the boat went down? That is, you could hear something?
- Yes, sir.
4089. In that vicinity?
- A little while after the ship's lights went out and the cries subsided, then I found out that we were near the ice.
4090. You could hear it?
- Yes.
4091. Does your statement also cover the field ice?
- Yes; it covers all the ice, sir. I heard the water rumbling or breaking on the ice. Then I knew that there was a lot of ice about; but I could not see it from the boat.
4092. Do you know what precautions the captain of the Carpathia took when he found himself among ice?
- No, sir.
4093. Do you know whether he doubled his lookout?
- I do not know.
4094. He proceeded toward New York how long after all the lifeboats had been raised?
- It was approximately, I should say, well on in the forenoon, when he set the course to New York.
4095. That is, 9 or 10 o'clock?
- No; I think it was well after that. We were steaming around the wreckage for quite a long time. I did not notice the time, but it must have been quite late in the forenoon.
4096. Steaming around -
- Steaming around the scene of disaster.
4097. Where were you when they were steaming around?
- I was on the bridge for a few minutes, shortly after we got the boats on board.
4098. For how long?
- About a quarter of an hour, I think.
4099. And remained on the bridge of the Carpathia after the boats were all raised?
- Yes.
4100. Did you see any bodies floating in the water?
- I remained on the bridge until he started off for New York direct. I do not know what time that was.
4101. Did you see any floating bodies?
- I saw one floating body, sir.
4102. That of a man or woman?
- A man, sir.
4103. Did you see the face distinctly?
- No; I could not. It had a life preserver on.
4104. Dead?
- Oh, yes; quite dead.
4105. How do you know?
- We could see by the way the body was lying.
4106. What is the ordinary position of a dead body in the water with a life preserver on?
- This body looked as if the man was lying as if he had fallen asleep with his face over his arm.
4107. On his side?
- On his side.
4108. Were you near enough to describe his features?
- Not at all, sir.
4109. Is that the only body you saw?
- That is the only body I saw.
4110. The only body you saw either dead or alive?
- Yes; dead or alive.
4111. There must have been hundreds of bodies in the water about the Titanic.
- No one ever saw any, at all.
4112. You say they were all equipped with lifebelts?
- I do not remember seeing anybody without a lifebelt.
4113. Did you know of any persons refusing to enter the lifeboats?
- No; only by hearsay.
4114. Did you hear that many had refused to enter the lifeboats?
- I heard it on board the Carpathia, that some of them had refused.
4115. Well, those on board the Carpathia had not refused. You heard that others had refused?
- I heard that others had refused.
4116. Did you hear any names given of those who had refused?
- I do not know. I may have heard the names and not taken any notice, not knowing them.
4117. Could you repeat them?
- No; I could not.
4118. Any of them?
- No, I could not.
4119. Were any of the names you heard the names of women as well as men?
- I could not say.
4120. Did you see any person - man, woman, or child - who refused to get into a lifeboat?
- No, sir.
4121. Did you see any man, woman, or child refused permission to get into a lifeboat?
- No, sir.
4122. Did you see any man, woman, or child ejected from a lifeboat?
- No, sir.
4123. Did you see any man or woman attempt to reach a lifeboat while you were on the deck or when your lifeboat was in the water?
- Do you mean to rush it, or get in quietly?
4124. To struggle to get in?
- No, sir; I did not.
4125. To try to get in or attempt to get in?
- I saw several get in, but all I saw try to get in got in.
4126. Did you see any get in from the water?
- No.
4127. Did you see anyone in the water attempt to get in?
- I did not see anyone in the water. It was dark, sir.
4128. So you could not see anyone?
- I could not see anybody in the water. I was looking around for them, keeping my eyes open, but I did not see anyone.
4129. If you had seen some one in the water, what would you have done?
- Taken them in the boat at once.
4130. No matter whether its capacity was apparently taxed or not?
- I should have taken them in the boat.
4131. You would not have left them?
- No, sir.
4132. If you had seen any struggling man or woman in the water -
- I should have taken them in as far as safety would allow; but I did not see anyone in the water.
4133. On that particular morning the water was calm?
- Perfectly calm.
4134. And unruffled, was it?
- Perfectly calm.
4135. So that each boat could have accommodated its full capacity?
- Oh, yes.
4136. Safely?
- Yes.
4137. How many people were in your boat?
- I estimate about 25, as near as I can tell.
4138. Was that its full capacity?
- I reckoned between 25 and 30 that the boat had in her. I did not find out exactly how many she had. I think 30 would be about all she could carry.
4139. You did not count them?
- I tried to count them.
4140. But you did not succeed?
- There were some people in the boat that did not speak English, who did not answer.
4141. But you could count them?
- I could not count them.
4142. You could not see them or could not make them answer?
- I could not make them answer.
4143. You tried to count them by having each - Sing out his number.
4144. Sing out his number?
- Yes.
4145. And you could not see with your eyes sufficiently plainly to count them?
- No, sir; I could not. Then I found out that I had more people in the boat than I thought I had, perhaps.
4146. How many did you have?
- I did not count them.
4147. But you found you had more than you thought you had? How did you find that out?
- By the time it took me to discharge that boat in smooth water. They were crawling out from under thwarts and everywhere. That is the way I found it out.
4148. (Senator Fletcher.) You were not in a lifeboat?
- In a small lifeboat.
4149. Not a collapsible boat?
- No, sir; not a collapsible boat.
4150. A sea boat?
- Yes, sir.
4151. You divide them into three classes of boats: First, the lifeboats that hold 65 people; second, the sea boats that hold 25 or 30?
- Yes.
4152. And the collapsible boats?
- Yes.
4153. You were not in a lifeboat?
- I was in a sea boat.
4154. (Senator Newlands) Just let me ask you one question. You say you could not see any of those icebergs until dawn, but you heard the lapping of the water?
- Will you repeat that question?
4155. I understand you to say that you could not see any of those icebergs until dawn, but that you heard the lapping of the water against the icebergs?
- Yes; that is what I said.
4156. That was a clear night was it?
- Perfectly clear; starlight. You could almost see the stars set.
4157. How do you account for the fact that you could not see the icebergs, if the night was so clear?
- I do not know. I do not know what it was about it. I could not understand. Of course, sound travels quite a long way on the water, and being so close to the water, and it being such a calm night, you would hear the water lapping on those bergs for quite a long, long ways.
4158. In your experience on the water, had you come across many icebergs prior to this time?
- Yes; I have come across a good few, I suppose.
4159. It is always difficult to see them at night?
- No, not always; not always. On such a night as that, even if there is no moon, you can very, very often see an iceberg by the water on the sides of it; that is, if there is a little breeze. But when the water is in one of those oily calms -
4160. Will you speak a little louder?
- It was like an oily calm when the Titanic struck, and for a long, long time after we were in the boats, and you could not see anything at all then.
4161. You judge of the presence of icebergs, then, by the appearance of the water around the icebergs and not by the sight of bergs themselves; is that it?
- On such a night as that, yes.
4162. And when the sea is smooth it is difficult, then, to discern this appearance?
- Yes. I think if there had been a little ripple on the water we should have stood a very good chance of seeing that iceberg in time to miss it - in time, to clear it.
4163. (Senator Smith.) We will adjourn now until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, and I desire to ask you to be present promptly in the morning, Mr. Boxhall, and we will try and hasten our examination as fast as possible.
- Yes, sir.