987. But the second class is aft, is it not?
- Yes.
988. I am talking about forward now - forward of the dining-room?
- It must have been the first class.
989. The second cabin of the "Lusitania” is aft, is it not?
- Yes.
990. And in those rooms the ports would be open if it was a hot day, would they not?
- We would not call i t a hot day; it was fairly warm, it was just pleasantly warm.
991. But the custom is to have the ports open to air the rooms, is it not?
- Yes, in the daytime.
992. And you had issued orders to have those ports closed?
- If there were any open.
993. Do you know if there were any ports open in the dining-room when you were in the dining-room?
- No, I did not see any. All the ports which I observed with my own eyes were shut, but as a precaution I gave this order - not that I knew the ports were open.
994. But it would be dangerous for the ship's safety if the ports were open, if she took a list to the starboard side, would it not?
- Naturally.
995. Did you go up the main companion way?
- Yes.
996. Did you see any of the passengers going up that way?
- Well, when we were struck there were about 100 people lunching in the saloon, and the moment she was struck of course we all
got up and they preceded me out through both doors. I was about the last man to come out of the saloon. It was as I was passing through the door that I issued this order, "Close the ports if any are open."
997. Did you issue any other order?
- Not then; there was none to be given. I simply told the people to be calm on the way up, and to be as collected as they possibly could.
998. Did you hear anyone give any orders from the top of the main companion?
- I saw some of the senior stewards keeping order amongst the passengers.
999. Did you hear any orders given by any of the officers?
- I cannot say I heard any special orders. I cannot repeat any.
1000. How long was it after she was struck that you got to the boat deck?
- I should say between three and four minutes, because it would take me that time to walk up there with 100 people crowding the staircase; under ordinary circumstances a minute and a half would have done it, but owing to the heavy list the ship had taken, that would render it more difficult; but I should say it was about four minutes after the explosion that I reached the boat deck.
1001. And you found it difficult getting up the companion way to the deck?
- I did find great difficulty, especially when in getting from the C deck to the A deck; the list was increasing all the time.
1002. When you got up to the deck were there many passengers on the boat deck?
- Quite a number.
1003. Was there any excitement or panic?
- There was a certain amount of excitement, but there was no panic whatever.
1004. Naturally there would be excitement?
- Yes.
1005. Did you see any of the stewards giving lifebelts to passengers?
- Yes, I did, I saw plenty of stewards giving lifebelts to passengers but I cannot specify anybody, although I saw plenty.
1006. You say you went to No. 13, the drifting boat?
- Yes, No. 13 and No. 15.
1007. Your boat station is No. 15 boat?
- That is my own boat.
1008. On the boat deck?
- Yes, but of course I was in charge of the whole of the starboard side boats; but No. 15 is my own special boat.
1009. The chief officer as a rule takes charge on the portside; does he not?
- That's right.
1010. Had you any difficulty in lowering the boat?
- Yes, I had.
1011. Can you tell us what your difficulty was?
- The number of people that were in her. She had so many people in her that it took me all my time to watch it.
1012. You had about 80 people in it?
- I had over 80 people in it.
1013. How they were fixed, were they standing or sitting?
- Just bundled in anyhow; some were lying in the bottom of the boat.
1014. These boats are made to carry about 60, are they not?
- My boat, I think, was 61.
1015. But the "C" boats, I put to you, are made to carry about 60 people, are they not - I mean the top boat?
- You mean the "A" boat?
1016. Yes. - The wooden boat I am speaking of. I do not refer to the collapsible boats at all.
1017. Yes - they carry roughly about 60 people, do they not?
- Yes, on an average from 60 to 62.
1018. And you were able to put 80 into her?
- Yes.
1019. And you lowered her down to the water in safety, without an accident?
- Yes, we got them down into the water.
1020. And the same with No. 13?
- The same with No. 13. We had about 65. I think I was told afterwards.
1021. Did you see any of the other boats being launched?
- It took me all my time to watch two.
1022. Had you been over to the port side at all?
- When I first came on deck naturally I went to the high side because my first impression was that the ship was going to turn turtle and I thought that the high side might be the best place.
1023. You went to the port side?
- Yes.
1024. What did you see then with regard to the boat?
- I do not remember a thing about the port side, so you might as well leave that out. I went round to the starboard side immediately.
Examined by Mr. SCOTT.
1025. One question. Do you happen to know Mr. Alfred Vanderbilt?
- I never saw the gentleman.
Examined by Mr. BUTLER ASPINALL.
1026. You told one of these gentlemen that you usually past [sic] 5 miles, I think you said, off the Fastnet?
- Yes, we shape a course to pass the preceding day when we make our courses up and the last alteration would be made to pass the Fastnet about 5 miles off. Off [sic] course when we sight Fastnet it is according to the Captain's judgment then how far he will pass it that is under ordinary conditions.
1027. Now on this occasion as you have said you passed further off so far that you did not even sight it?
- I did not see it.
1028. Do you know what the reason of that, was, why you passed so far away from it?
- Of course I can only form my opinion and that is because probably the captain had some private instructions.
1029. You were further away from the shore on this course?
- Yes.
1030. You were not on the usual course then?
- No not then - certainly not.
1031. Now passing away from that matter, can you tell me anything about this. Before you left the ship do you know whether anything had been done about the watertight doors?
- I do.
1032. What do you know about that?
- When I reached the boat deck I met the carpenter's yeoman, who had just come up from below, and I asked him whether all the doors were shut down below and he answered that every thing [sic] was shut below. Those were the exact words we used to each other.
1033. Would it be his business to know whether that had been done?
- Well, it would be, partly, because he assisted the carpenter in everything he did and that is part of the carpenter's duty. I referred more to the hand doors than the Stone Lloyds.
1034. At any rate, he told you that everything was shut down?
- He told me everything was shut down.
1035. Now after you had got away in your boat, No. 15, did you fall in with another boat?
- Well, after the ship had sank from under us. We never got away, you know. As the ship disappeared the Marconi Aerial wire came across the top of our boat and very nearly took us down with it, but luckily it snapped and we were simply swimming about then in the disturbed water for two or three minutes in very, very great danger.
1036. And after that did you transfer some of your passengers to another boat?
- I did. I observed a boat which appeared to me to have two or three people in it, and how it got adrift like that I did not know, but when we got out of this terribly disturbed water in safety I immediately ran forward of my boat's head for that e mpty boat, and when I reached her I gave the boat swain's mate, a seaman, and the assistant purser and about ten stewards to form a boat's crew, and I counted out about 30 passengers also and put them in this boat.
1037. And that relieved your boat?
- That relieved my boat of altogether, say, about over 40.
1038. Having done that, did you then direct that boat to go back to the wreck in order to save more lives?
- Yes, to save as many they could, and, I believe, ultimately they saved a good many.
1039. And did you also take your own boat back for that purpose?
- I took my own boat back too.
1040. And did you pick up a considerable number of people in your boat?
- Quite a number; not so many as I had before, but I filled her up then with 55 or 56.
1041. What did you do then with your boat-load?
- I pulled off then to the "Bluebell," a little fishing smack that was about five miles in the offing.
1042. What did you do with your passengers when you got them?
- Put them all on board.
1043. You had freed your boat of passengers. What did you do then?
- Went back to the wreck.
1044. Did you rescue more lives?
- About half way I pulled about 2½ I should say when we fell in with a broken collapsible boat in a bad condition with about 35 I think, inside it; some of these people were lying exhausted in the bottom of the boat, some were injured so I took them all on board my boat, and we let the collapsible boat drift away, it was in a sinking state, and shortly after that there was a trawler called the "Indian Empire" or the "Indian Prince"; she came along and she stopped. I pulled the boat alongside of her, put all these injured people that I took from the collapsible boat on board of the "Indian Prince." Then he took me in tow. I stopped in the boat myself until we reached the last scene of the wreck.
1045. Then did you again make further efforts to save life?
- Yes, I pulled off then and I think we saved about 10 people; at least we pulled them out of the water and two of them died before I could get them ashore. Others were in a very weak state.
1046. What did you do with these people, the last you got out of the water?
- I took them on board the "Flying Fox," a Queenstown tender.
1047. By this time what was the condition of your boat's crew; could they do any more?
- I do not think so. It was then about 8 o'clock and they had been without food and water, and, naturally, they were really exhausted and they had not any more heart to do any more; they had done quite enough, I think.
1048. And you did no more after that?
- I did not do anything more after that.
1049. Do you think you could have done any more with the crew in that state?
- No. I will tell you why. You see that time there were a number of cruisers and destroyers and patrol boats on the scene, and they had handy little boats; they were just pulling hither and thither and my big boat, which holds 85 people, takes some pulling, and I could not pull her round or manoeuvre her round, so I let her go at that.
1050. And then you and your crew got on board the "Flying Fox," and were saved by the "Flying Fox"?
- Yes, she took us to Queenstown, and we reached there about 11 o'clock.
Re-examined by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
1051. I should just like to ask you one general question. As far as you observed, was everything possible that could be done being done in relation to getting out the boats and getting the passengers off?
- Everything was done that it was possible to do.
(The witness withdrew.)