Examined by Mr. THOMAS SCANLAN.
328. I understand you to have stated in answer to the Attorney-General that although the crew was less than at ordinary times it was capable of firing and working all the boilers temporarily?
- By calling out the watch that was off duty the remaining boilers could be fired.
329. Are you not well aware that the ship had on board a sufficient supply of coal to enable all the boilers to be fired temporarily?
- Yes.
330. You appreciate in regard to the importance of speed as a factor of safety that where you most wanted speed was when the ship came into home waters - into the region known to be infested by submarines?
- That is the only place where the submarines could he expected to be, of course.
331. And that is the only place where speed mattered?
- Where speed would be a factor at all as far as submarines were concerned.
The Commissioner:
Will you tell me what speed could have done on this occasion.
Mr. Scanlan:
I heard your Lordship's questions and the witnesses' answers on the subject of speed.
The Commissioner:
But will you tell me what difference speed would have made on this occasion.
Mr. Scanlan:
I will not venture to set myself up as an expert on speed.
The Commissioner:
But this submarine approached the "Lusitania” on the starboard side, and apparently, as far as we know at present, quite suddenly, it came up out of the water and within a few seconds sent a torpedo into her.
Mr. Scanlan:
And torpedoed her once or twice.
The Commissioner:
Yes. We are told two torpedoes were sent in, one after the other. Unless you have some good point about the speed, please do not spend too much time over it.
332. Mr. Scanlan: I hope I have not occupied too much time. (To the witness.) I put it to you, that you realised the importance of having the speed increased was when the ship was in the position in which she was actually when she was torpedoed?
- For the purpose of getting away from a submarine which might chase her.
333. And you took no means to communicate with the captain and ask him to run the ship at a maximum speed in this danger zone?
- No.
Examined by Mr. COTTER.
334. What is the custom in normal times with regard to taking on a pilot. Where do you take them on?
- At Point Linan.
334a. That is, if you do not call at Queenstown?
- Yes.
334b. If you do not call at Queenstown you take them on at Daunt's Rock?
- Yes.
335. Is it the custom of your Company to issue orders to your captains in regard to boat drill and bulkhead - door drill on board your passenger ships?
- Yes.
336. Had Captain Turner those instructions?
- Yes.
337. Is there a crew list put up on board your ships?
- Yes, showing boat stations.
338. And also on that list are there printed bulkhead - door stations, fire stations, &c.?
- Yes.
339. Was that done on the "Lusitania” to your knowledge?
- Yes.
340. Have you ever seen a boat drill on board one of your ships?
- Yes.
341. Have you ever had any report from your captains that the crew of any of your passenger ships were incompetent to handle the boats?
- The crews as to individual members vary.
342. That is not my question. Have you ever had a general report from any of your captains that the crew were incompetent to handle the boat?
- No, no general report.
343. Have you found your crews as a rule, competent crews to handle boats?
- On the whole they have been very willing.
344. And been able to do the work?
- Yes.
345. Have you received any report from Captain Turner since the "Lusitania" disaster that the crew was incompetent to handle the boats?
- No. Might I say my Lord that since the war-
346. The Commissioner: I think you had better not. I think you had better answer the questions?
- Very well, my Lord.
347. Mr. Cotter: Since the war broke out you have had a different class of men on board the ships, I take it?
- Yes. We have lost all our R.N.R. and Fleet Reserve men.
348. And you have had to take on the best you can get?
- We have had to take on the best we could get and train them as best we could in the time at our disposal.
349. What kind of davits had you on board the "Lusitania"?
- The ordinary quarter circle davit.
350. Had you any patent Welin's davits on board?
- No.
The Commissioner:
I thought Mr. Cotter, the captain said they had some.
351 Mr. Cotter: That is what I wanted to clear up, and I was going to ask you to call the captain back. I think he made a mistake. ( To the Witness.) You had none?
- No.
352. Have you any on any of your boats?
- Yes, on the "Andania" and "Alaunia," not for all the boats, but for a particular set of boats.
353. Is it a fact that you have given prizes for boat races?
- Yes.
354. In the " Mauretania" and in the "Lusitania"?
- Yes, and on all the passenger ships of the fleet.
355. That is to make the crews proficient in handling the boats?
- Yes.
356. What class of lifebelt did you carry in the "Lusitania"?
- There were a certain number of body lifebelts and the ordinary cork lifebelt.
357. The body lifebelt is the new pattern one, is it?
- Yes.
358. Where did you have them situated?
- That is a very large question. I really could not be expected to answer that. I should like some witness asked who could answer from absolute knowledge. I know generally where they were placed in the staterooms and so on.
359. Do you make any distinction with regard to the men you have engaged during the war on the dock, in New York?
- How do you mean, make a distinction?
360. I mean as to the nationalities?
- I do not quite follow you.
361. Is it not a fact that you have Germans working on the dock and on board your ships at New York?
- I should think it is probably certain that Americans of German descent would be working there.
The Commissioner:
Do you mean men who have been born in Germany?
Mr. Cotter:
Yes, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
Do you mean men with German names or do you mean Germans naturalised in the United States?
362. Mr. Cotter: I mean actual Germans who go out there, who emigrate to New York. I am getting now to the point of a German spy being able to get on board the "Lusitania" and being able to convey information to the enemy. (To the Witness.) Is there any distinction made; do you try to sort them out at all?
- We do all we can to protect ourselves against German spies in New York as everywhere else.
363. But it is possible for them to get on board your ships?
- I am not prepared to say it is impossible.
364. The reason I raise the question is, that it has been published in the press that people got on board the ship and made statements that she carried guns and so on.
The Commissioner:
You are quite right Mr. Cotter.
Examined by Mr. BUTLER ASPINALL.
365. The calamity, as we know, happened on May 7th?
- Yes.
366. Is it within your knowledge that submarines had been operating in Liverpool Bay for some time before that?
- Yes.
367. To any considerable extent?
- To a considerable extent.
368. Was that the common knowledge of those using the port of Liverpool?
- It was the common knowledge of those using the port of Liverpool so far as vessels actually sunk by German submarines were concerned in Liverpool Bay, but in addition to that I knew, from my position on the Committee of the War Risks Association, of other ships having escaped which might not be common knowledge.
369. Several sunk, and others chased, which had escaped?
- Yes.
370. I noticed you told the Attorney-General that one of the points either you or your subordinates discussed with your captain was as to closing watertight doors and ports, and you also added, the danger of stopping for pilots off Liverpool?
- Yes.
371. I want to develop that. What was the danger you discussed with them?
- The danger was the danger of being at rest; that the submarine would be likely to wait at points where she might expect a ship to stop to pick up a pilot, and a ship at rest would be absolutely at her mercy.
372. Stopping for the purpose of getting her pilot?
- Yes.
373. In view of your knowledge as to submarines operating in those localities, would you think it desirable that a ship should arrive some hours before she could cross the bar and lie off there?
- I felt that it was running a very great risk to do that.
(The Witness withdrew.)