JOHN MACDIARMID,
chief gunner, H.M.S. Essex,
Sworn.
Examined by Mr. Newcombe:
6446. You belong to the cruiser Essex, which is now lying here?
- I do.
6447. In what capacity?
- Chief gunner.
6448. Will you state what you know about the diving in connection with the Empress of Ireland? You have been down there, I understand.
- I have been in charge of the diving operations so far as my divers are concerned.
6449. How many divers from the ship have you had?
- Three.
6450. Karnes?
- They are Whitehead, leading seaman, Kellier, Macdonald.
6451. Are these three in court now?
- No.
6452. Any of them?
- One, sir.
6453. Which one?
- Whitehead.
6454. Where are the others?
- On board the ship.
6455. When did you come up from the wreck?
- We arrived in Quebec at 4 o’clock yesterday afternoon.
6456. Now, will you state what information you can give with regard to the position and condition of the wreck; how it is lying and what has been ascertained by reports from the bottom?
- Do I understand that you want to know what the divers found out with respect to the position of the wreck?
6457. Yes.
By Lord Mersey:
6458. Were you down yourself?
- Personally, no, my Lord.
6459. All the information you are going to give us is information that you obtained from the men who were down?
- No, not exactly that; I can tell by the movements of the diver under water; I can tell in which way he moves.
By Mr. Newcombe:
6460. You are in charge of the apparatus on top?
- Of my own divers, yes.
6461. Now, will you state -
- My diver went on the hull of the ship with instructions that he was to walk fore and aft, so that I could see by the bubbles coming to the surface in which direction he moved, and by the movements of those bubbles, I could tell, as near as can be got at, how the wreck lay on the bottom. I came to the conclusion that by the compass that was in the ship she was lying northeast and south-west; that is the line of the ship.
6462. And the bow?
- To the north-east.
6463. You observed those bubbles and you took the compass direction?
- Yes.
6464. Anything further; any further information?
- Well, I was sent there to find that out; that is all that I troubled about. I went just to see that; my instructions were to find out how the ship was and make observations, that is all.
6465. You know, Mr. MacDiarmid, I have had no statement from you. I should like to know whether you have any other information to give the court in respect to the vessel?
- I can’t say anything beyond that: that my diver went down and found out the direction in which the ship was lying.
6466. Is he the diver who is here, Whitehead?
- Yes, sir.
6467. Are your divers still engaged in diving operations there?
- At present they are here on board the Essex.
6468. Are you going back to the ship?
- That I cannot say.
6469. You have no orders?
- I have had no orders yet.
6470. You do not know?
- No.
Cross-examined by Mr. Haight:
6471. Mr. MacDiarmid, will you please state how many descents your divers made?
- Five.
6472. Did one man go down at a time, or more than one?
- One at a time.
6473. That is, the three divers made five separate descents?
- Five separate descents.
6474. Would your records show the dates and hour of the day that the descent was made and the length of time each man was under water?
- They would.
6475. Do you happen to have them here?
- I have not got them in my possession at present.
6476. The question has been raised, Mr. MacDiarmid, as to possible currents and eddies at this particular point. Did you in sending your men down choose any particular time of the tide or any particular tide?
- The operations that have been going on so far have been to secure a diving vessel or the vessel that is employed there, to the wreck, and we have had to depend on wind and weather.
6477. Have you been governed by tidal conditions? If the weather has been favourable, and the surface of the water perfectly smooth, have you gone down with impunity at any time of the tide?
- As far as we have dived, the practical diving has taken place - we have gone down when the weather -
6478. When the water was smooth and the wind calm, you went down if you wanted to?
- Yes.
6479. Have you noted particularly the stage of the tide or whether it was ebb or flood at the time your men have gone down?
- I have not noted that, but by the actual times shown by my record of when the divers did go down, if that is applied to the tide tables, it will tell exactly the state of the tide.
6480. Will you be good enough to furnish us later, if you cannot now, an accurate statement showing each day upon which your men went down, the time that the descent was started, and the period that each man was under water?
- Well, I am not prepared to give any details like that unless I have my written dates and times, and I have not got them in my possession at present.
6481. But you have them on board the Essex?
- I have.
6482. Will you subsequently consult them and make up that statement?
- I will.
6483. Thank you. Did any of your divers while they were down have any difficulty from the strength of the current? Were they washed off the ship or did they have difficulty in making the descent?
- There was no report made to me to that effect by any of them; no complaint of any kind.
6484. How long have you been actually on the boat anchored off the wreck?
- That again will have to be answered by referring to the times.
6485. Well, is it a considerable number of days?
- The first day was on Friday the 19th.
6486. And you stayed there how long on that occasion?
- We stayed until late; I am not prepared to say the times unless I -
6487. You were there quite a while on Friday?
- Very long time on Friday.
6488. That is, from early morning until through the afternoon?
- I will not commit myself to times at all.
6489. Were you there on Saturday at all?
- No.
6490. Were you there on Sunday?
- Yes.
6491. A number of hours then?
- I say again, I will not commit myself to times.
6492. Were you there Monday?
- No.
6493. You were there, as I understand, yesterday?
- No.
6494. I thought you came back last night?
- So I did.
6495. During the time that you have been on your boat anchored over the wreck, have you noticed any unusual or peculiar tidal conditions; anything like eddies or whirlpools?
- That question was asked before, and I think I gave answer to it, or a question to that effect.
6496. Do you mind answering it again? I did not not catch your answer.
- The conditions of tide when the water was smooth - and that could be noticed fairly well - were normal.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
6497. Did your divers report to you that they found any of the port holes open or closed?
- One diver, the diver we have in port at present, sir, said that he found one port quite closed, and going along to the next one he found a piece of stuff sticking out of it and cut it off. When he came to the surface it was a piece of blue stuff with a border to it; what it belonged to or what it was I do not know, but that was brought to the surface by the diver.
By Lord Mersey:
6498. Do you mean to say that it was something sticking out from the port hole?
- Yes, my lord.
6499. That would indicate that the port hole was open?
- It must have been open.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
6500. Did he report anything with reference to the watertight compartments, whether they were open or closed?
- No, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
6501. I have assumed that they did not go inside the body of the ship.
- My divers have not been allowed to go into the hull of the ship.
6502. They have been examining only the skin of the ship?
- Yes, sir.
6503. They were not allowed to go inside?
- I gave them orders not to go inside.
Lord Mersey:
You were very wise.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
6504. They did not ascertain whether the watertight doors were closed or not?
- That could not be ascertained unless you go into the hull of the ship, and I would not allow my divers to go in - not so far.
By Lord Mersey:
6505. You talked about a port hole which had something sticking out of it, some cloth, as I understand?
- Yes, sir.
6506. Do you know what deck the port hole belonged to?
- I could not say.
Witness retired.