CAPT. J. B. BELANGER,
Master of Government steamer Eureka,
Sworn.
By Mr. Newcombe:
5942. Captain Belanger, you are master of the Canadian Government steamer Eureka?
- Yes, sir.
5943. You were in charge of that vessel on the night of the sinking of the Empress of Ireland?
- Yes, sir.
5944. Did you take a pilot off from the Empress of Ireland?
- Yes, sir.
5945. Can you state the time when you took off the pilot?
- Yes, sir; it was at 1.30.
5946. Eastern standard time?
- I think so; that is my ship’s time.
5947. Precisely where was it that you took the pilot off?
- Just about abreast of the Father Point wharf - a little west of it.
5948. Is that the closest description you can give me - a little to the westward of Father Point wharf?
- About a mile and a half.
5949. And a little to the westward?
- A little to the westward.
5950. You did not take any bearings or observation of the place?
- No.
5951. But you think that is as accurate as it can be stated?
- Yes.
5952. At 1.30?
- Yes, as shown by the extract from the log.
5953. After that where did you go?
- I was just waiting for the Wabana.
5954. Coming down?
- Coming down behind the Empress.
5955. She was coming dowm with a pilot, too?
- Yes, she had a pilot on board and I was to take him off.
5956. What sort of a vessel is the Wabana?
- A collier.
5957. A steamer?
- A steamer.
5958. Did you take her pilot off?
- Yes, sir.
5959. At ttie same place?
- About the same place.
5960. At what time?
- At 2.10.
5961. And then did you go back to?
- To the wharf at 2.20.
5962. That is the wharf at Father Point?
- Yes, the Father Point wharf.
5963. Did you get a message there in regard to the accident?
- Yes, sir.
5964. At what time?
- I just had touched the wharf at 2.20 - about 2.25 I was just touching the wharf - by telephone.
5965. By telephone from Mr. Whiteside?
- Mr. Whiteside and Mr. McWilliams.
5966. They gave you the information that the Empress was sinking?
- Yes, rush.
5967. What did you do?
- I rushed instantly without any delay - about two minutes.
5968. How long did it take you to reach the wreck?
- From 40 to 45 minutes.
5969. What did you find there?
- I found the Empress sunk, disappeared, and I found the Storstad on the south part of the wreckage and heading south.
5970. The Storstad lying there with her boats?
- The boats were out; I saw boats there.
5971. Did you see wreckage?
- I saw wreckage and many bodies.
5972. And people floating in the water?
- Yes, dead bodies and live bodies also, which I saved.
5973. Did you put your boats down and go to the rescue?
- I took the people out of the first boat of the Empress; there were three boats there.
5974. You did everything possible -
- Everything.
5975. To alleviate the sufferings of the survivors?
- Yes.
5976. A number of them came aboard of your ship?
- About 150.
5977. About 150 survivors?
- Yes; and some died aboard - about 10.
5978. You took them to Rimouski?
- I touched at Father Point in passing - to know if there were any doctors there and as there were no doctors I went instantly to Rimouski wharf.
5979. How many trips did you make?
- Three.
5980. You landed these 350 people and went back again twice?
- Twice afterwards.
. 5981. The officers and crew did everything possible to save life and assist survivors?
- Yes.
5982. Were there pilots also on your ship?
- Yes, I had four of them.
5983. And they lent their assistance?
- Yes; if you want to know the names I can give them to you.
5984. On the second trip you made did you rescue any living people?
- No, sir; when I left there were no living people in sight.
5985. When you left on the first occasion?
- Yes, sir.
5986. And you found some property, too?
- Yes, sir.
5987. While you were waiting for the Wabana to take off her pilot at 2.10, did you hear any whistles from the vicinity of the Empress of Ireland?
- Yes, sir.
5988. That was when you were?
- When I was waiting off Father Point for the Wabana.
5989. What whistling did you hear, Captain Belanger?
- First, one long blast, next two short blasts, and, third, three short blasts.
5990. Did you know whether these blasts were from the same whistle?
- I cannot swear to the first one but the two second ones I can nearly swear that it was from the Empress.
5991. The first long blast you are not sure of, but the others you are quite satisfied came from the Empress?
- I might mistake, but I am nearly sure that it was the whistle of the Empress.
5992. Can you give the time of that whistle?
- Just about five minutes before I got aboard the Wabana.
5993. That would be about five minutes past two?
- Yes.
5994. May I ask you if you brought your log which you have on the Eureka?
- No, sir.
5995. In this statement, which I have signed by you, you say ‘I am writing that by the extract from the log of the Eureka entered by second officer Caron on the 29th of May, 1914,' and you say that certain things happened at certain times. Is that correct?
- Yes.
5996. Is this a true copy of the entries in your log?
- Yes, that is a true copy; I will swear to it.
Mr. Newcombe:
If you want to cross-examine, Mr. Haight, here is a copy of the entries (copies of entries handed to Mr. Haight and Mr. Aspinall).
Mr. Meredith:
Did he (the witness) enter up this log?
Mr. Newcombe:
No, the entries were made by Caron, his second officer.
By Mr. Aspinall:
5997. When you heard the whistles below you in the river you were them awaiting this collier, the Wabana?
- Yes, sir.
599S. And in that time your vessel was about a mile above Father Point?
- Which boat?
5999. The boat in which you were - that was about a mile above Father Point?
- Yes.
6000. And the collision happened somewhere between 6 and 7 miles below Father Point?
- Yes.
6001. So that at this rate, the distance between you and these two ships when you were hearing the whistles was somewhere between 7 and 8 miles?
- Yes, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
6002. What is the time that you kept on the ship, Captain Belanger?
- Quebec time.
6003. Is that corrected from time to time or do you just keep winding the clock?
- Every morning, sir, by the report from Mr. McWilliams.
6004. Who is Mr. McWilliams?
- The steamship’s agent at Father Point.
6005. Do you get it over a telegraph wire?
- He gets it from the telegraph wire himself and he gives it to me by telephone.
6006. According to your belief, the time on the Eureka is standard time?
- It must be standard time, I suppose, but I just take it from Mr. McWilliams. I do not know if it may be a few minutes out. There may be a little change of time during the 24 hours as it is not chronometer time.
6007. When you get Mr. McWilliams’ report, if you find that there is any variation in your clock, do you set your clock right?
- When I received notice of the accident I did not go to the watch to see if the watch was keeping correct time.
6008. Each morning, when you get the correct time from Mr. McWilliams, you go to your clock and if your clock differs you correct it?
- Yes, sir.
6009. How much correction do you usually have to make; do you have to make a correction every morning?
- Yes, every morning when there is correction to be done.
6010. Did you get the time yesterday morning?
- Yes. Sometimes they may lose a second or half a minute, or one minute, or perhaps more.
6011. Then your clock will lose more than a minute in a day?
- I do not take special note of it. A chronometer is another thing, but our clock is a good clock and it does not vary much more than two minutes.
6012. The clock is a good clock?
- Yes, first class.
6013. Do you enter in the log the times when you take off and put on pilots to the various vessels?
- Yes, sir.
6014. As I understand you, you did enter in the log the time you took pilot Bernier off from the Empress?
- He is entered at 1.30. It is in the statement at 1.30. We enter it not only for pilot Bernior but for all. As soon as the pilot is aboard we enter all pilots and all passengers also.
6015. How close were you to the Empress?
- Alongside of the Empress when we took the pilot off.
6016. You actually had a line to the Empress when pilot Bernier came over the rail on your deck?
- A line?
6017. You were made fast to her?
- No.
6018. You were actually touching?
- We were touching.
6019. And Captain Bernier came over your ladder and stepped on your deck?
- Yes.
6020. You entered the exact time he stepped aboard?
- Yes.
6021. Did you take that time from your Eureka clock or watch?
- Yes, by the Eureka clock; the second officer took it especially for that purpose and he was writing the log book.
6022. As I understand you, when pilot Bernier came on deck you were abreast of Father Point or perhaps a little west of it?
- Nearly abreast of it.
6023. By abreast you mean that Father Point was a little to the south of you?
- I mean abreast of Father Point wharf, north of Father Point wharf. Father Point wharf is heading north about 5 degrees west.
6024. A line drawn from your boat to Father Point wharf would have been approximately south?
- From Father Point wharf it would be south from my -
6025. If you drew a line from your boat out in the water to the Father Point wharf at the time you took off the pilot it would have been approximately south?
- South, yes.
6026. As soon as Bernier came aboard the Eureka, did the Empress start ahead?
- Yes.
6027. About what is the speed of your boat?
- From 9½ to 10.
6028. She is a converted tug?
- Yes, a converted tug.
6029. How long have you been master of the Eureka?
- Four years.
6030. Are you familiar with the sound of the whistles of the big boats that are regularly navigating the river?
- Yes, I was quite aware of the sound of the Empress.
6031. Could you recognize the Empress whistle when you heard it?
- Yes.
6032. Did the three signals which you heard sound as if they came from the same ship?
- I cannot say that the first one was because at the time of the first blow I was looking for the Wahana, I heard that one and I just took it to be the noise but I cannot swear that it was from the Empress. The two second ones I am nearly in a position to swear they came from the Empress.
6033. You testified before the coroner at Rimouski, did you not?
- Yes.
6034. According to my best ability in the translation of French, as I understand your testimony, you say that you heard the whistles of two steamers, first, that the Empress had blown one blast and that the Storstad had responded. Is that correct?
- I do not think that is correct. They misunderstood that; I cannot recognize the whistle of the Storstad. It is a new boat on that line.
6035. You continue 'Then the Empress gave three short blasts signifying full speed astern. The Storstad gave two blasts intending to say that the engines had been stopped but that the steamer was moving under control. After the three blasts of the Empress the other gave no answer to my knowledge.’ Is that not the testimony you gave before the coroner?
- I do not think he has been very well understood.
By Lord Mersey:
6036. You do not think what?
- That he has not been very well understood.
6037. That the coroner did not very well understand what you were saying?
- Yes, sir.
Mr. Haight:
Have you, Mr. Newcombe, a copy of the coroner’s minutes?
Lord Mersey:
He ought not to have. (To witness) : -
6038. Have you a copy of what the coroner wrote?
- (Witness) No, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
6039. Did you, Capt. Belanger, hear any whistles from the other steamer, or from another steamer, sounded in the vicinity of the Empress?
- No, sir; I heard only these whistles and they sounded east.
6040. You believe that all three whistles you heard came from the Empress?
- No, sir; I say the two last ones; the first one I cannot swear to.
6041. Is it your best judgment, although you will not be positive; that all three whistles were blown by one boat?
- I am not positive of the first one.
6042. I know you are not positive but what do you think?
- I do not think.
6043. I quite understand that you do not think and I quite understand that you do not feel able to state positively what boat blew the first signal of one blast. I do not ask you to say positively. Give me your best judgment. Do you think it was? The court will allow you to say what you think.
- I think it was the first -
By Chief Justice McLeod:
6044. What did you think at the time you heard the whistle?
- It was about five minutes before.
6045. What boat did you think it was then?
- I might have thought it was just the same whistle as the Empress but I am not sure.
By Lord Mersey:
6046. To whom, Capt. Belanger, did you address this statement (referring to a typewritten statement which had been handed to his Lordship)?
- I sent it to Captain Lindsay. I sent a report; the minister asked me for a report.
6047. Who is Captain Lindsay?
-
Mr. Newcombe:
He is the officer who was directed to make the preliminary inquiries.
By Lord Mersey:
6048. You were invited to send it to him and you sent it to him?
- I sent it to him. The last one was sent to the deputy minister.
6049. Did you send a statement before you sent this one?
- Is that the last one?
6050. This is apparently a second statement because you say: ‘I omitted to state in my former written statement,' etc.
- This last one has been given to the deputy minister, Mr. Johnston, by me this morning.
6051. This one?
- This one.
6052. When did you write it?
- Yesterday.
6053. You sent one, you say, previously to Mr. Lindsay?
- Mr. Lindsay - Captain Lindsay of the Marine and Fisheries Department.
6054. When did you send that?
- It must be dated.
Lord Mersey:
Have you got it, Mr. Newcombe? Will you show it to me?
Mr. Newcombe:
I have not got it; Mr. Johnston may have it; he is not here at the moment. This is a statement of the 13th of June that we have here.
By Lord Mersey:
6055. This statement, I see, is dated the 13th of June; I refer to the statement in my hand. I understand the witness to say that he wrote it yesterday?
- I wrote the last paragraph yesterday.
Lord Mersey:
Have you the letter that he sent to Mr. Lindsay?
Mr. Newcombe:
I have not. I thought this was the letter. Mr. Johnston may have it, but he is not in Court.
Witness:
The Deputy Minister got this one this morning (referring to typewritten statement handed to him by Mr. Newcombe). I just put in what was omitted.
Mr. Newcombe:
I have sent for Mr. Johnston and if there is another statement -
Lord Mersey:
Where is Mr. Johnston?
Mr. Newcombe:
He is out of the Court room at the moment; I do not think he is far away.
(Mr. Johnston having entered the room.)
Lord Mersey:
Mr. Johnston, it is said that you received a letter from this witness in reference to the Eureka; did you?
Mr. Johnston:
Yes, my Lord.
Lord Mersey:
Will you show it to me?
Mr. Johnston:
It is among the various papers. It is an exact copy of this (referring to typewritten document), with the exception that in the later one he added a paragraph.
Lord Mersey:
I want to know how the exception came to be added.
Mr. Johnston:
Capt. Belanger will have to explain that.
By Lord Mersey:
6056. p. Mr. Belanger, will you follow carefully what I say?
- Yes, sir.
6057. And see whether it is right. Did you, on the 13th of June, write a report and send it to Mr. Lindsay?
- Yes, sir.
6058. That is the 13th of June?
- Yes, sir.
6059. That report which you sent to Mr. Lindsay was sent in consequence of Mr. Lindsay asking you to send it?
- Yes.
6060. Did Capt. Lindsay ask you to send it by sending you a letter?
- Yes, sir.
6061. Have you that letter?
- I have not that letter.
6062. Where is it?
- I do not remember whether it was by letter or verbally.
6063. You do not know whether he asked you by letter or verbally?
- Yes.
6064. But he did ask you, and in consequence you wrote a letter, dated the 13th June?
- Yes.
6065. That letter you wrote on the 13th of June contained no reference whatever to whistles?
- No, sir.
6066. It had nothing at all about whistles?
- No answer.
6067. Now, you hand to me what purports to be a copy of a letter dated the 13th June, and the copy has a paragraph in it setting out the whistles you heard which paragraph you inserted in the copy that you made yesterday?
- Yes.
6068. And the reference to the whistles therefore was made for the first time yesterday in writing by you?
- Yes.
6069. Where did you send that letter with the additional paragraph in it to?
- I brought that letter up to the Deputy Minister, Mr. Johnston, this morning.
Lord Mersey:
Now, Mr. Newcombe, may I ask you to assist me? This document which you have handed up to me and which I understood at first was a copy of a letter written by this gentleman is not a copy of that letter?
Mr. Newcombe:
So it would appear.
Lord Mersey:
It is a copy of a letter written by him up to a certain point and then it is something which he himself added yesterday.
Mr. Newcombe:
Yes.
Lord Mersey:
The letter itself having been written more than a week ago.
Mr. Newcombe:
That would seem to be so.
By Lord Mersey:
6071. The added paragraph which you put in yesterday is this: ‘I omitted to state in my former written statement’ - that is the statement that you sent to Captain Lindsay?
- Yes, sir.
6072. ‘- that just before the Wabana was boarded at 2.10 a.m. on the 29th May, I heard distinctly whistle signals,' You wrote that in yesterday?
- Yes, sir.
6073. Have you any written record of the whistle signals that you did hear on the 29th of May?
- No, I did not keep any record.
6074. There was no record of them or reference to them in the log of the Eureka?
- No, sir, not in the log of the Eureka. The second officer did not hear those whistles.
6075. I want to understand about that. Who kept the log of the Eureka?
- The second officer.
6076. What is his name?
- Amedee Caron.
6077. Where was he at the time, you say you heard these whistles?
- He was in his room perhaps; I cannot recollect sure.
6078. On the same ship you were on - the Eureka?
- Yes, sir.
6079. Might he have heard the whistles?
- He might have heard the whistles because I just made the remark to my quarter-master that the whistles sounded as if there was something wrong.
6080. I am going to ask you about that in a moment. If the second officer of the Eureka heard such whistles would it be his duty to enter them in the log?
- Yes.
6081. But he did not enter them?
- It is not necessary to enter them in the log book regularly.
6082. What you want to say is that he might have entered them in the log book but he was not obliged to?
- No, sir.
6083. Anyway, he did not enter them?
- No, sir.
6084. You did not write them down anywhere?
- No, sir.
6085. Apparently you gave evidence before the coroner?
- Yes, sir.
6086. Mr. Haight has read to us what he says is a translation of what you said before the coroner?
- Yes.
6087. I should like to have a copy of that. When did you give your evidence before the coroner?
- (No answer.)
Mr. Haight:
(Handing typewritten document to his Lordship.) The portion I read, my Lord, is underlined.
By Lord Mersey:
608S. When did you give your evidesce before the coroner?
- (No. answer.)
Lord Mersey:
This note, I suppose, Mr. Haight, is dated?
Mr. Haight:
I do not remember. The inquest at Rimouski was two or three days after the catastrophe.
Lord Mersey:
This is the inquest at Rimouski, but it has no date to it.
Mr. Haight:
It was the following Saturday ofter the collision.
Lord Mersey:
What was the day of the week on which the collision occurred?
Mr. Haight:
Friday.
Lord Mersey:
Do you mean to say that the inquest was begun next day?
Mr. Haight:
So I understand.
Lord Mersey:
That is rather odd; they must be very quick.
Mr. Haight:
Captain Kendall was there, he testified, and he knows.
Lord Mersey:
Captain, when was this inquest?
Captain Kendall:
On the following day - Saturday.
Lord Mersey:
The collision was in the early morning of Friday, and the coroner sat on Saturday next?
Captain Kendall:
Yes.
Lord Mersey:
When did he sit?
Captain Kendall:
At 11 a.m.
Lord Mersey:
He only examined a few witnesses and then adjourned?
Captain Kendall:
Till two.
Lord Mersey:
Had he completed the inquest?
Captain Kendall:
No.
By Lord Mersey:
6089. Let me see what you said before the coroner according to the coroner’s notes. You think that the coroner is not very accurate?
- (The witness) I think there is some misunderstanding.
Mr. Newcombe:
I have a certified copy of the depositions. I do not know whether your Lordship has a certified copy or not.
Lord Mersey:
I suppose it is the same as this.
Mr. Newcombe:
Very likely.
Lord Mersey:
Now, let us see what Captain Belanger said. This is what the coroner has taken down:—
'A notre retour de notre premier voyage, le Storstad avait laissé la Pointe au Perè. J’ai entendu les cris des deux bateaux. D’abord l'Empress a sifflé un coup, l’autre, le Storstad, a répondu.’
6090. Is that right?
- I don’t -
6091. Perhaps you do not understand my French?
- Your French is first-class. I think there is some mistake in that.
'Ensuite l'Empress a donné trois cris, signifiant: toute vitesse arrière. Le Storstad avant avait donné deux cris voulant dire que ses machines étaient arrêtées, mais que le bateau avanqait, pouvait se gouvemer. Apres ies trois cris de YEmpress, l’autre n’a pas donné de réponse, à ma connaissance.’
6092. Are we to understand that you think that the coroner has misunderstood what you were saying?
- That is my idea, all right.
6093. And that what is taken down is not what you said?
- No, sir, that is not what I intended to say.
6091. My colleague the Chief Justice tells me that there was no shorthand writer there and that the coroner himself wrote it all in long hand.
(Here several questions were put to the witness by Sir Adolphe Kouthier, in French, in reference to his deposition before the coroner at Rimouski.)
By Lord Mersey:
6095. I have only one other question to ask you: When you heard these whistles, whatever they were, you seem to have said to the second mate - is that the man who was in the cabin?
- He was the quartermaster; he was at the wheel.
6096. You said to the quartermaster at the wheel: there is trouble down there?
- Yes.
6097. How soon after this was it that you were told to put out?
- It was about when we heard those last whistles - it was about five minutes before that we boarded the Wabana, and we boarded the Wabana at 2.10. Just after that we came back to the wharf at Father Point, about - where is the log book? Will you give me the time when I got to the wharf?
(Log book handed to witness.)
By Lord Mersey:
6098. You need not trouble, M. Belanger, because we can find it in the log.
- 2.20 at wharf.
By Mr. Newcombe:
6099. 2.30 left the wharf for the Empress of Ireland?
- 2.30, yes.
6100. Can you give us any idea where the Wabana was at the moment of the catastrophe?
- The Wabana when the accident happened was, I think, a little below Father Point wharf. At 2.05 I heard these first blasts before the Wabana was there and at 2.10 the Wabana passed Father Point wharf.
6101. Then the Wabana?
- The Wabana at the time, she should be abreast of Father Point wharf.
6102. At the time of the collision the Wabana was just at Father Point?
- Yes, not at the wharf, but abreast of the wharf.
By Mr. Haight:
6103. Did the coroner himself write out the answers which you gave to his questions the day after the accident?
- I can’t swear it, sir.
6104. Do you know how the notes were taken?
Lord Mersey:
He said they were taken in long hand by the coroner.
The Witness:
Yes.
Lord Mersey:
Is it usual in your courts to cross-examine the witness upon questions put from the bench?
Mr. Haight:
It is not unusual, my Lord, to follow up the points which are raised; I have even known of exceptions being taken to questions asked by the bench.
Lord Mersey:
Who does that?
Mr. Haight:
I have known of cases where such exceptions were sustained by the presiding judge.
Lord Mersey:
I have never heard of such a thing. Let us not have the same thing three or four times; if you cross-examine this witness - and I am not going to stop you - try to keep the thing in some sort of order, and see if you can exhaust your examination once for all.
Mr. Haight:
Your Lordship raises points that have not occurred to me, and I sometimes like to follow them. As far as I understand, this man signed his deposition before the coroner after it was written out.
Lord Mersey:
I have no doubt he did.
Mr. Haight:
I should like to know who wrote it and if he signed it.
Chief Justice McLeod:
In such examinations the ordinary rule is that the witness has his evidence read over to him at the time.
Mr. Haight:
I wanted to see if that was actually done in this case.
By Mr. Haight:
Q. Is it not true that the coroner wrote out the minutes of your evidence and read his written statement to you, and that you signed it?
- I don’t remember if he wrote himself; there were two there.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
6105. Was it read over to you before you signed it?
- I sure think so, yes.
6106. And you did sign it?
- I signed it, I suppose.
Witness discharged.