ODIN SABJE,
2nd mate, s.s. Alden.
By Mr. Griffin:
4154. Are you the second mate of the steamship Alden?
- Yes.
Mr. Griffin:
My Lord, this witness speaks English to some extent, and I would suggest that we have an interpreter sworn so that we may he able to use him if it becomes necessary.
Lord Mersey:
Very well.
PETER ANDREW JENSEN,
sworn as interpreter.
4155. You say you are the second mate of the steamship Alden?
- Yes.
4156. And you have been at sea I understand, about 14 years?
- Yes.
4157. And you have been second mate of the Alden about four years?
- Yes.
4158. During that period how many trips have you made up the St. Lawrence river?
- I couldn’t tell you.
4159. Well have you been up the St. Lawrence more than once?
- I have been four times up.
4160. You have held a chief officer’s certificate since 1906, is that right?
- Since 1906.
4161. On the 28th of May last where was your vessel bound?
- To Montreal.
4162. On the evening of that day, during what hours did you stand watch?
- From ten minutes past seven to twelve midnight.
4163. During that time were you on the bridge of your vessel?
- Yes.
4164. Was there also a pilot in charge of the vessel?
- Yes.
4165. And you had a look-out and a man at the wheel?
- Yes.
4166. Did you pass the steamship Empress of Ireland that night?
- Well, we passed a steamer and the pilot told me it was the Empress of Ireland.
4167. Describe the appearance of the steamer that you refer to?
- Two funnels and a black top.
4168. Could you tell whether it was a passenger steamer or not?
- Yes, I could see that it was a passenger steamer.
4169. At what point in the river did you pass her?
- About six points off Cape Dogs.
4170. You were bound up and she was bound down?
- Yes.
4171. Had you reached Cape Dogs when you passed her?
- No.
4172. You say that she was about six points off Cape Dogs . . . where with reference to Cape Dogs did you pass the steamship?
- We kept Cape Dogs six points on the starboard bow.
4173. At the time you passed her?
- Yes.
4174. At what hour did you pass the Empress of Ireland?
- About twenty minutes after ten o’clock, Sydney time.
4175. Your ship was carrying Sydney time?
- Yes.
4176. And about how far away did you see the Empress?
- Eight or ten miles off.
4177. Was the night clear?
- Clear.
4178. What was the first coloured light that you saw on board the Empress?
Lord Mersey:
Can’t we get to the point.
Mr. Griffin:
I am just coming to it, my Lord.
Lord Mersey:
I think you are a long time.
By Mr. Griffin:
4179. What was the first coloured light you saw on board the Empress?
- The two masthead lights.
4180. But what was the first coloured light that you saw?
- Red.
4181. From that time on did you notice anything with reference to the navigation and steering of the Empress as the vessels approached?
- She was swinging, steering badly down the river.
4182. You say you saw her red side-light, and will you please describe what changes if any you noticed in her lights as she approached you?
- First I saw the red, and then I saw both lights, and then I saw only the green one.
4183. And then?
- Both.
4184. And after that?
- Red.
4185. How many times did she change from red to green in that manner?
- Between five and seven times.
4186. Did you make any change in your helm?
- I gave a port helm.
4187. About how much?
- Between one and a half and two points.
4188. State whether the steering of the Empress as she approached you caused you to fear a collision?
- Yes, I was afraid. I was just going down to call the Captain.
4189. On which bow of your vessel was the Empress as she approached you?
- On the port side.
4190. Was she always on your port side?
- Yes, sir.
4191. And did you pass her red to red?
- Yes, sir.
4192. About how far off?
- About half a mile.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4193. When were you first asked about this matter?
- I was up in Montreal and that gentleman that just spoke to me now came on board the Alden and asked me if I had seen the Empress of Ireland.
4194. When did this happen?
- I can’t exactly remember the date, but we have made a trip to Sydney and back again since then.
By Lord Mersey:
4195. The question that was put to you was this, when did the gentleman come to see you first about this matter?
- It was after we -
4196. Never mind whether it was after something else or not? Give us the date.
- I don’t know the date.
4197. Well is it a month ago or two weeks ago or when was it?
- It was the first trip after the Storstad had arrived.
4198. I know nothing about when the Storstad arrived, I want to know when it was that the gentleman first came to see you about this?
- I can’t remember the exact date.
4199. Never mind the exact date, give us the closest you can?
- We went from Montreal to Sydney and back to Montreal again . . . . about eight days.
4200. I dare say you did go to Sydney and back to Montreal again, but how many days is it since the gentleman first spoke to you?
- About eight or nine days.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4201. Do you know the reason that that gentleman came to see you?
- The reason was the collision between the Empress of Ireland and the Storstad.
4202. And why should that bring this gentleman on board your ship?
- I don’t know.
4203. Had you told anybody about passing the Empress of Ireland on this night?
- No.
4204. Well what brought this gentleman on board this ship?
Lord Mersey:
Pardon me, Mr. Aspinall, but I cannot believe that.
4205. Had anybody from your steamer mentioned to anybody else that the Empress of Ireland had been steering badly on this occasion?
- Nobody I can think of but the Captain. If he had said anything I don’t know that.
4206. Is the Captain here?
- No, sir.
4207. And you don’t know that the Captain ever mentioned it to anybody?
- No, sir.
4208. Now, I want Mr. Aspinall’s question answered. . . . can you tell us what it was that induced that gentleman to pay you a visit?
- I heard he was a lawyer.
Mr. Aspinall:
4209. A. liar?
- No, a lawyer.
Lord Mersey:
I don’t understand, whom did the witness say was a liar?
Mr. Aspinall:
Not a liar, my Lord, a lawyer.
Lord Mersey:
Oh, a lawyer.
Mr. Aspinall:
Yes, my Lord.
4210. I suppose you pass a great many ships, don’t you, going up and dawn?
- Yes.