HANS OLVEREN,
seaman, s.s. Alden.
Mr. Griffin:
I don’t know if your Lordship thinks it is material, but I should be very glad to make a statement as to the manner in which this information reached us, if your Lordship will allow.
Lord Mersey:
I am afraid I cannot do that. You see if you make this statement you do not make it on oath - not that I should attach any particular importance to the oath - and you do not submit yourself to cross-examination. I do not see how that can be relevant.
By Mr. Griffin:
4211. Can you speak English?
- Yes.
4212. How long have you been on the Alden?
- Seven and a half months.
4213. You are an able seaman?
- No, an A.B.
4214. On the evening of the 28th of May last what watch did you stand?
- I was on from half-past seven until twelve.
4215. Now, at half-past seven did you take a turn on the wheel or on the lookout or where?
- No, I went on the look-out.
4216. And how long did you remain on the look-out?
- I was on look-out till half-past ten.
4217. And then you left the look-out?
- Yes.
4218. And then you went on the wheel?
- Yes.
4219. Before you left the look-out, do you remember passing a large passenger steamer?
- Yes.
4220. How many funnels had she?
- Two funnels.
4221. Can you tell me how long that was before you went off the look-out?
- Six or seven minutes.
4222. When you first saw this steamer what coloured light did you see?
- The top light.
4223. But after that did you see a coloured light?
- I seen a red light.
4224. And from that time on, tell us what changes, if any, you noticed in her lights?
- I seen the green.
4225. You first saw the red?
- Yes.
4226. And then you saw the green?
- Yes.
4227. When you saw the green did the red light disappear?
- Yes.
4223. And then what followed?
- I saw again the red.
4229. And then?
- Again a green and a red.
4230. How many times did that happen?
- About four or five times.
4231. Which bow of your vessel was the other steamer approaching on?
- On the port side.
4232. And did you pass her on the port side?
- Yes, red to red.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4233. How long were you keeping the look-out that night?
- About three and a half hours.
4234. How many vessels did you pass that night during those three and a half hours, do you think? Do you mind answering?
- I can’t tell you.
4235. You can’t tell me how many vessels?. . . . Why don’t you suddenly understand my English as you understood Mr. Griffin’s English?
Lord Mersey:
Perhaps yours is a little too good.
4236. Now turn around to me - how many steamers did you pass while you were on the watch that night?
- Two.
4237. What sort of a steamer was the other one?
- A cargo boat.
4238. Not quite as big as the one you were speaking about?
- No, not nearly so big.
4239. Was that other steamer coming-up or going down the river?
- Going down.
4240. You were coming up?
- Yes.
4241. Well, now, can you tell me what lights you saw on that boat?
- I saw a red light.
4242. What lights did you see on that other boat, the cargo boat, can you tell me that?
- No, I can’t say.
4243. Don’t you remember anything about the lights you saw on that other boat?
- No.
4244. Nothing at all?
- No, on that ship I only saw a red light.
4245. And can you remember what lights that other boat was showing from time to time? (No answer.)
4246. Can you remember the lights that any boat was showing on that night, except the Empress of Ireland?
- No.
4247. Mr. Aspinall: When were you first asked about passing the Empress of Ireland - do you remember? (No answer.)
By Lord Mersey:
4248. Turn around to me, and I will ask you. . . . when was it that you were first asked to tell what you remembered about the Empress of Ireland?
- (Witness shakes his head.)
4249. How many days ago is it since you were asked about it?
-
(No answer.)
4250. Do you see that gentleman who is standing up in the court (Mr. Griffin)?
- Yes.
4251. Have you seen him before?
- No, I never seen him before.
Mr. Griffin:
May I ask, my Lord, that the interpreter be used with this witness. I really don’t think he understands.
Lord Mersey:
Very well, I daresay he doesn’t. (At this point the Interpreter Jensen was called in to assist in the examination of the witness.)
By Lord Mersey:
4252. Did you ever see that gentleman who is standing up in the court before?
- No.
4253. Who was it that first asked you to tell anything about the Empress of Ireland?
- Court, last night.
4254. I will ask the interpreter to put the question again, by whom you were first asked to tell about the Empress of Ireland?
- That gentleman over there.
4255. When did that gentleman first ask you? How long ago is it? . . . . what is he saying now, Interpreter?
The Interpreter:
He doesn’t understand it. He doesn’t understand Norwegian. He is a Russian Linn.
Lord Mersey:
Is there anybody here who can talk Finnish? What does he talk?
The Interpreter:
He talks some Swedish.
Lord Mersey:
Do you talk Swedish?
The Interpreter:
Yes.
Lord Mersey:
Then I will administer the oath to you again to interpret from the Swedish language into English and vice versa.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
4261. Isn’t the witness a Norwegian?
The Interpreter:
No, he is a Russian Finn.
(At this point the oath was again administered to the interpreter as applying to the Swedish language.)
Lord Mersey:
Now, will you tell us when you were first asked to tell what you knew about the steering of the Empress of Ireland?
- The 28th of May.
Lord Mersey:
That is a very odd day. That is the day before the accident happened. That is the day before the accident happened and I suppose it is the day when he saw the Empress of Ireland, when he passed her on the river.
4262. What I want to know is when you were asked to tell what you are trying to tell us here?
- Two and a half weeks ago.
4263. And who was it that asked you?
- That gentleman over there. (Indicating Mr. Griffin.)
4264. And where was he when he asked you?
- Here in Quebec.
4265. Where, in Quebec?
- I think it was where the gentleman lives.
4266. Who took you to the place where the gentleman lives?
- The second mate.
4267. What is his name?
- I don’t know his second name, but Odin is his first name.
4268. What is his name, is he the last witness?
- Yes.
4269. So it was the last witness that took you to this gentleman’s house?
- Yes.
4270. A little more than two weeks ago?
- Only last night.
Mr. Griffin:
Perhaps it will help clear matters up if I explain about this. I was on board the ship about ten days ago in Montreal, but at that time this man in the witness box happened to be on shore and I didn’t see him. But I was then told that he knew about it.
Lord Mersey:
Who told you?
Mr. Griffin:
The second mate, the last witness, told me that this man knew about it too, and I asked to have him brought here, and I saw this witness for the first time late yesterday afternoon.
Lord Mersey:
But as I understand you knew of the character of the evidence which you thought you could get from the Alden ten days ago?
Mr. Griffin:
About ten days ago, yes, my Lord.
Lord Mersey:
Was any question put to Captain Kendall or to any one from the Empress of Ireland with reference to the passing of this ship the Alden?
Mr. Haight:
Yes, my Lord, by me, on his original cross-examination.
Lord Mersey:
On his first cross-examination?
Mr. Haight:
Yes, my Lord. Twice I asked him and also the pilot, yesterday.
Lord Mersey:
Oh, yes, yesterday I know, but I am talking about the first occasion on which Captain Kendall came into the witness box.
Mr. Aspinall:
There is another question that I would like to put to the witness. Perhaps your Lordship might put it, as he seems to understand your Lordship to some extent.
Lord Mersey:
What is the question?
Mr. Aspinall:
When you saw this gentleman last night, did you speak to him in English?
- Yes.
Lord Mersey:
I think you ought to supplement it by another question, whether the gentleman spoke to him in English.
Mr. Aspinall:
Did the gentleman speak to you in English?
- Yes.
Mr. Aspinall:
That is all, my Lord.