L. H. LAPIERRE,
pilot,
Sworn.
By Mr. Haight:
4330. Mr. Lapierre, you are a regularly licensed St. Lawrence river pilot?
- Yes, sir.
4331. Did you, on the 28th of May, pilot the steamship Alden up to Montreal?
- No, sir.
4332. Up to Quebec?
- Up to Quebec, yes, sir.
4333. Where did you go on board her?
- I got aboard at two o’clock in the afternoon of the 28th.
4334. Where.
- Father Point.
4335. On your voyage up the river did you pass the SS. Empress of Ireland?
- Yes, sir.
4336. While you were coming up she was coming down?
- Yes, sir.
4337. Will you please take the chart which I hand you and tell us where it was in the river that the vessels actually passed (chart handed to witness.) If you can, Mr. Lapierre, take a pencil and mark the side of the river and the point in the river where your steamer was, and, as well as you can, the location of the Empress when you were beam to beam? (Witness marked on chart) -
- I have no compass and I may be off a quarter of a mile. I have no dividers and I am guessing the place where it is to a mile. (Witness was supplied with dividers, and again marked on chart).
4338. You have indicated, Mr. Lapierre, right opposite Cape Dogs by two XX’s the position of the two vessels?
- No, only mine. I put it too near once - the first cross.
4339. Shall we leave it or rub it out?
- The cross that is farthest away from the north shore represents the position of my vessel - of my vessel about two miles off.
4340. And the Empress was then on your port side?
- No, she was right ahead.
4341. What I wanted you to do was to indicate the point on the river at which the vessels passed when they were beam to beam.
- When she passed me she was where I put the X.
4342. Then it is true that the two vessels were beam to beam - broadside?
- Broadside where the cross is.
4343. Right off Cape Dogs?
- No, about half a mile below it; or two miles off or one and three-quarters. I did not measure it. I am only guessing it.
4344. How far off, approximately, from you was the Empress of Ireland when you could first make out her coloured lights?
- I consider I saw her about three-quarters of an hour before she passed me.
4345. How far off was she?
- About ten miles.
4346. How far off was she when you could make out her coloured lights?
- About three-quarters of an hour before that I saw her headlights.
4347. You could make out her coloured lights?
- Coloured lights right away afterwards - fair, clear night.
4348. When you made her out did you see her starboard or port light?
- Not quite exactly. I wanted to know what ship she was. I kept on my course for five or ten minutes until I saw her red light.
4349. Then what did you do?
- I showed her my red and I turned about one-quarter of a point and kept my vessel in that position.
4350. You were red to red?
- Yes.
4351. Were you able to go by her holding the course you had assumed when you had ported and shown red to red or did you have again to change your wheel?
- If he had kept to his red light and me to my red light we would not have to change our course.
4352. Did you have to change your course?
- I had to alter it all the time - port helm all the time.
4353. You kept porting more?
- Porting more; she was coming close to me and she was not changing her course. She showed me her red a couple of times and she showed me her green lights and I got afraid she would run into me and gave her more port. Then, when she got within half a mile or three-quarters of a mile of me she showed me her red light and went down all right.
4354. How much clear water was there between you when you actually passed?
- She was about a cable’s length from me. Of course, it was night time.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4355. Do you often pilot these colliers?
- Yes, sir, I have been on a great many of them.
4356. Do you pilot the Dominion Coal Company’s colliers?
- Yes, I have been on them and others. I am on the tour de role.
4357. I think that in England the expression is ‘choice pilot'?
- Yes, it is about the same. It is what is known as the tour de role and the pilots are all employed by the companies.
Lord Mersey:
The tour de role?
Mr. Aspinall:
Each pilot takes his turn.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4358. You have piloted colliers often and the Dominion Coal Co’s colliers often?
- Yes, all that comes up - men-of-war, and everything.
4359i. Do you know Bernier, the ship pilot who was on the Empress of Ireland on this occasion?
- Yes, sir.
4360. Have you known him for some time?
- Yes, since he was an apprentice.
4361. Is he an honest, truthful man, as far as you know?
- Yes, sir; he is a good, able man too.
4362. And an honest man and, as far as you know, a truthful man?
- Yes, sir.
4363. On this occasion when you saw the lights of the Empress did you see the masthead light and the two side lights all at the same time?
- No, sir.
4364. Which did you see first?
- First the headlight.
4365. And you saw these lights ahead?
- Yes.
4366. You said right ahead?
- Right ahead.
4367. A very trifling sheer on the part of your ship or of the Empress would show different lights, would it not, to the people on board of each vessel?
- Yes, sir.
4368. Do you know whether there were any vessels astern of you as you were approaching the Empress?
- I did not notice.
4369. You would not be concerned with what was behind you, I suppose?
- No. Sometimes I might happen to look aft and see a light that is coming. When we are there we are looking all around the river to see what we have to do, but when we have passed a place it is no use to look at it; it is past. It is ahead we are looking mostly.
4370. If the Empress should be altering for anything astern of you you would not know?
- No.
4371. I suppose you have very often to alter course in that river?
- Yes, sir, very often.
4372. On this occasion how far away was the Empress from you when she got red to red with you?
- I dare say she was about three-quarters of a mile, as far as I can guess it.
4373. On how many occasions did she twist in this odd way?
- She twisted all the time. All the time I saw her - three or four times she changed her light.
4374. Three or four times after she gave red to red in a distance of about three-quarters of a mile?
- No, that is before that.
4375. It was all right after you got here?
- Three-quarters of a mile off she showed me her red light but before that she showed red and green. She was six or seven miles away at the time.
4376. I thought you meant that, you saw her three-quarters of a mile away and she passed you safely?
- Yes, sir.
4377. When she was passing you did she seem to be steering all right?
- Yes, sir.
4378. When she was doing these odd things, showing you first her green light and then her port bow, shutting it out and opening it out again, did you keep your full speed?
- Yes.
4379. You were frightened of her?
- We are all frightened when you see a ship coming before you and she is not answering your signal. There is a rule and we have got to follow it and he did not follow it that night, and did not show me his red light as he ought to do, and that is why I was afraid.
4380. Are you annoyed with him?
- No, sir.
4381. You thought - am I right in this suggestion - that he might run you down?
- Yes, sir.
4382. That meant that you thought there was risk of a collision?
- Yes, sir.
4383. Is it not a good rule of seamanship, when you think there is risk of a collision to take your way off, slow down and possibly stop?
- When it is one, but you have to wait to find out if it is one.
4384. You thought there was risk of a collision?
- Yes, I thought he would show me his red light.
4385. What speed were you travelling at?
- These colliers are about 8½ knots. When they are full speed they are not going very fast. I do not want to stop no speed from them to clear all the ships.
4386. Is that your experience in the navigation of this river?
- Yes.
4387. You don’t want to stop no speed of them?
- Of course, if you run ashore or anything of the kind they will stop.
4388. Nothing short of running ashore stops a collier?
- We have to stop them every day.
4389. Do you know that they do their best to get around very quickly from Sydney to Montreal?
- Yes, sir, lose no time as much as possible.
By Lord Mersey:
4390. I think you said you did not alter your speed at all?
- No, sir, I did not alter any speed because I did not want to. I had no reason to yet. I was watching.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4391. When you first saw this vessel she was about 10 miles away?
- I think so. You could see the lights from a long distance. These big ships have very fine lights. I won’t swear, though, that she was 10 or 8 or 9.
4392. As she was approaching you, being at a distance of 10 miles from you, are there bends in the river round which she might have to some?
- No, sir, it was about as straight as you could like on the chart. It was as straight a place as ever we have.
4393. You marked this chart to-day for this gentleman?
- Yes.
4394. Have you been asked to do that before?
- No.
4395. Are you sure?
- I marked it just now because I was asked.
4396. Is this the first time you marked a chart to show where the vessels were when they passed?
- For this affair.
4397. What do you mean by “this affair”?
- Do you mean did I never mark a chart before? If you mean that, I say I have marked a good many charts and I have took a good many courses on the chart, but to-day I marked that one to show to the gentleman where the ship was. That is the first time I done it on that chart.
4398. When were you first asked about these manoeuvres of the Empress?
- Manoeuvres?
4399. Manoeuvres; the change of her lights in this way?
- When I was aboard; when I was on her.
By Lord Mersey:
4400. The question is, when were you first asked about all this?
- Oh, well, when I was first asked, about ten days ago, that Mr. Griffin -
4401. Griffin?
- Griffin, and another gentleman, Mr. Power, I think - no, Murphy. Mr. Murphy came to the office; he had been in Montreal to see the captain and he told me about it; he asked me if it was true what the second mate said.
By Mr. Aspinall:
4402. The day you passed the Empress was the 28th?
- Yes.
4403. And you were asked about this about ten days ago?
- Well, about that, sir.
4404. If I were to ask you about any ship you passed on the 1st of May, do you think you could remember it?
- On the 1st of May?
4405. Yes?
- No.
4406. You don’t think you could?
- I do not know if I was there on the 1st of May. I was at home; I couldn’t pass no ship.
4407. Take the week before; were you at sea?
- No, sir.
4408. Take the week after?
- I was still at home the week before.
4409. The week after, where were you, at sea?
- No, sir, not yet.
4410. Still at home?
- Still at home.
4411. Your turn hadn’t come?
- No, sir.
4412. On any night but this 28th of May could you tell me about the lights of any vessel that passed you?
- Well, it is pretty hard to tell you which ship I passed, but I can tell you I passed a good many ships, and every one I did pass, when it was in a large channel, when he showed his green light I showed my green light and when he showed his red light I showed my red light. That is the way I navigate.
4413. That is your method of navigation?
- Yes, I navigate according to the rules of the road.
4414. When you were passing the Empress what was the direction of the current, against you or with you?
- Against me, sir.
4415. About what was its strength?
- About four or five knots.
Lord Mersey:
Does this complete the evidence from the Alden?
Mr. Aspinall:
Yes, my Lord. I should like to have the chart marked as an exhibit.
(Chart filed as Exhibit “ D.”)
Witness discharged.