JAMES FRANCIS GALWAY,
quartermaster, Empress of Ireland,
Sworn.
Examined by Mr. Haight:
2826. Were you one of the quartermasters on the Empress of Ireland on the night of the collision with the Storstad?
- I was, sir.
2827. When did you ship on the Empress?
- I could not say the date exactly.
2828. How many voyages had you made on her?
- Two trips.
2829. You shipped in Liverpool?
- Liverpool.
2830. Made the trip over to Quebec?
- That is right.
2831. Then went back?
- Went back.
2832. Did you come then to Quebec on the second round voyage?
- Yes.
2833. And you remained on board as quartermaster from the time she left Quebec until the accident -
- That is so, sir.
2834. You were acting on these three crossings as one of the four quartermasters of the steamer?
- That is so, sir.
2835. How were the watches arranged? How many quartermasters were on duty each watch?
- Two.
2836. How long was each watch?
- Four hours, sir.
2837. How many of the four hours were you actually at the wheel?
- Two hours.
2838. That is, you stood by for two hours and you steered for two hours in a watch of four?
- That is right, sir.
2839. Were the watches separated so that you and another man always kept the same watch?
- Yes, sir.
2840. Who was the man on watch with you?
- His name is Gutcher.
2841. He survived?
- Yes, sir.
2842. How long have you been going to sea, Mr. Galway?
- Six years, sir.
2843. Where do you live?
- Kensington, Liverpool, sir.
2844. How long have you been acting as quartermaster?
- Three and a half years, sir.
2845. On what different lines have you been acting as quartermaster?
- Allan, White Star, C.P.R., Harrison Line.
2846. Will you just name a few of the steamers of the different lines you have been on, White Star, Allan and Harrison?
- Virginian of Allan Line, Teutonic of the White Star Line and Craftsman of the Harrison Line. That is all I know.
2847. Which of the C.P.R.?
- The Empress of Ireland, sir.
2848. Did you have any experience in sailing vessels before you went to sea?
- Yes, sir.
2849. How long?
- About three years.
2850. Did you come to the Frontenac last night and ask to speak to me?
- Yes, I did, sir.
2851. Will you please say who it was that advised you to come to see me?
- The delegate of the union.
2852. Do you know his name?
- I do not, sir.
2853. What union is it?
- Our union, sir.
2854. What is your union?
- Seamen’s Union, sir.
2855. Is it an American or an English union?
- The American union is affiliated with the British Seamen’s Union.
2856. Where did you meet the delegate?
- At the hotel, sir, Neptune Hotel.
2857. When did you meet him?
- Last night, sir.
2858. Did you tell him before you -
Lord Mersey:
No, you must not ask that. If Mr. Aspinall or anybody who cross-examines this witness chooses to ask these questions, he can, but you must not ask him; you cannot cross-examine this witness.
By Mr. Haight:
2859. After you had discussed with me the matter which you came to tell me about, did you subsequently discuss it with Mr. Johnston and Mr. Newcombe?
- That is so, sir.
2860. Will you please repeat, Galway, as well as you can, the various statements that you made to me regarding the operation of the steering gear of the Empress of Ireland while you were acting as her quartermaster?
Lord Mersey:
Mr. Haight, that won’t do. You must not ask him to repeat what he said to you, but you may ask him what he has to tell us of his own knowledge about the steering.
Mr. Haight:
Very well, my Lord. (To witness). After you joined the Empress of Ireland as quartermaster will you please tell us whether or not you at any time had any trouble with her steering gear?
- Yes, I did, sir.
2861. Will you be good enough to tell me the first occasion on which trouble developed?
- Going up the river St. Lawrence in the place called Traverse.
By Lord Mersey:
2862. What is the Traverse?
- It is a narrow passage below Quebec; I could not tell how many miles.
2863. A narrow passage in the river?
- Below Quebec, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
2864. What trouble did you have at that time?
- I found it almost impossible to manage the vessel.
2865. How did she behave?
- She behaved extraordinarily. When you give her the helm she wouldn’t answer it in time.
2866. How much did she sheer off her course on that particular occasion?
- What I say is about three points.
2869. How was your wheel when she began to sheer?
- To port, sir.
2870. How far over?
- 23 degrees.
2871. Which way did she sheer?
- She went to starboard, sir.
2872. With your wheel over to port, which way ought she to go?
- To port your helm is to put her to starhoard; her head goes to starboard.
2873. When you put your wheel to port, you expect her to swing to starboard?
- I do, sir.
2874. On that occasion, when you put your wheel to port, she did go to starboard?
2875. - She did go to starboard.
[2875 is the answer to question 2874 from the original]
2876. What did you do when she began to sheer to starboard?
- What did I do, sir?
2877. Yes, about your wheel?
- Well, sir, I had had the wheel over, sir.
2878. You put the wheel over which way?
- I put it over to starboard.
2879. How far did you put it to starboard to correct the sheer?
- To correct her, sir? About 23°.
Lord Mersey:
I think you are rather at sea at present. You are not doing him justice, you know.
By Mr. Haight:
2880. Galway, just tell us in your own words how your vessel swung, one way or the other, and what you did to correct the swing, if you did anything?
- It was impossible to correct the swing. She would swing either ways, from one side to the other.
By Lord Mersey:
2881. Am I to understand by this that she was turning to port or to starboard?
- Yes.
2882. At her own sweet will?
- That is right, sir.
2883. How often did she do this?
- When we was going through the Traverse.
2884. Yes, but how often did she swing from port to starboard and back again from starboard to port?
- It has been so on several occasions; I do not know the exact date, but I do know that she has done it, sir.
2885. I am talking about this particular date, when she was in the Traverse?
- How often did she do it, sir?
2886. Yes.
- Once that I know of.
By Mr. Haight:
2887. On that one occasion, when she was swinging from one side to the other, how many times did she swing first to starboard and then to port?
- Once that I know of, sir.
2888. Was there any other vessel in the Traverse at the time?
- There was.
2889. Was your steamer sheering towards or away from her?
- Sheering towards her.
2890. What did you do to try to correct that sheer?
- The pilot gave an order.
2891. What order?
- To port the helm, sir.
2892. What did you do?
- Put the wheel to starboard; she then kept going on towards the schooner.
2893. When you put your wheel to starboard, was she sheering opposite to your wheel?
- Opposite, all the time.
2894. Lord Mersey: I don’t understand that. When you put your wheel to starboard did she go to starboard?
- She went to port, sir.
2895. I should think that that is not opposite but what she ought to have done. That is what she ought to have done?
- Yes, sir.
2896. And she did it?
- Yes, sir.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
2897. If you put your wheel to starboard she ought to go to port?
- That is right, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
2898. Did she do it?
- She done it for a time and then she came back again.
Lord Mersey:
Then she changed her mind.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
2899. Do I understand that when you put your wheel to starboard she didn’t steer to port; that whilst you had your wheel to starboard she turned to starboard?
- Yes.
By Mr. Haight:
2900. When you received the order, Galway, to starboard your wheel, which way did you turn it?
- To port, sir.
2901. Will you indicate whether the top spoke moved to the right or to the left?
- Starboard is to put it to the left hand side.
2902. Take the top spoke of your wheel. The pilot says: Starboard; which way does that spoke move, right or left?
- To the left.
Lord Mersey:
We know these things, you know.
By Mr. Haight:
2903. He is exactly contradicting my idea. When the order is given: Starboard your wheel, on the Empress of Ireland, the top spoke moves which way?
- To port, sir.
2904. And the head swings which way, if she answers her helm?
- The head swings, sir?
2905. The stem of the steamer, the bow.
- To starboard, sir. What is it, starboard?
Lord Mersey:
Now, Mr. Haight, will you tell him what it is you want him to say.
By Mr. Haight:
2906. I want to know, Galway, whether, when you saw the schooner, she was sheering to starboard or to port?
- She was sheering to port, sir.
2907. And on which side was the schooner?
- On the port side, sir.
2908. If you wanted to bring your bow away from the schooner and over to the starboard, what was the proper order for the pilot to give you?
- Port the helm, sir.
2909. Did he give you the order to port?
- Yes.
2910. Was the order to port obeyed by you?
- Yes, sir.
2911. How far did you put the wheel over to port?
- About 15°, sir.
2912. Did it have any effect upon the steamer’s sheer?
- It did for a time, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
2913. She went to starboard for a time?
- Yes.
2914. That is to say, she did what she ought to do?
- Yes, and then she took a sheer back.
2915. Then she took it into her head to change?
- That is so.
By Mr. Haight:
2916. And when she changed and again sheered towards the schooner, how many points did she sheer?
- About three points, sir.
2917. And by how much margin did you miss the schooner?
- By about six degrees, sir, of the compass.
2918. Can you tell how many feet of clear water there was, approximately, between you and the schooner when you cleared it?
- About 40 feet I would say, sir.
Lord Mersey:
I thought that according to last night’s version it was 10 feet.
Mr. Haight:
Last night he said about the length of this room.
Lord Mersey:
I thought you said to-day before lunch ten feet.
Mr. Haight:
I did, my Lord, because, as I understood the witness, we were in a room about 10 or 12 feet in length and I understood him to say last night that they cleared the boat by feet about the length of this .room. I may have misunderstood him.
Lord Mersey:
Now, that appears to be wrong; the distance appears to be 40 feet.
Mr. Haight:
It appears to be wrong.
The Witness:
That is what I said, 40 feet.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
2919. Does your wheel move the same direction as the helm?
- It ought to, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
2920. What was the next occasion, Galway, upon which, you had trouble with the steering gear of the Empress?
- From 10 to 12.
2921. On what night?
- On the night before the collision. I was on watch from 8 to 12, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
2922. That is going down the river?
- Going down the river.
2923. What happened then?
- The steering gear; I put it over to port and it jammed for a matter of a few minutes.
2924. What happened then; did you unjam it?
- It remained there, sir.
2925. For a few minutes?
- Yes.
2926. What happened then?
- It began to work itself again then, sir.
2927. So it changed its mind again?
- That is right.
2928. Without any encouragement from you?
- The encouragement, I had to pull it.
2929. When you pulled it it behaved properly?
- Yes, sir.
2930. Is that all that happened going down the river?
- That is all I know, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
2931. How many minutes was it that your wheel remained jammed?
- It was about, I should think - I cannot say for certain; I say about 3 minutes.
2931 ½. During that time were you able to steer the boat?
- I was not, sir.
2932. Did you report the fact to the officer on watch?
- I did, sir.
2933. Who was the officer?
- Mr. Williams.
By Lord Mersey:
2934. Is Mr. Williams alive?
- He is not, sir.
2935. Did you report it to anybody who is alive?
- Well, sir, not that I know of.
2936. Did you report it to the Captain?
- I did not, sir.
2937. Did you report it to the pilot?
- The pilot knew about it, sir.
2938. Did you mention it to him?
- Yes, sir.
2939. That pilot is alive, is he?
- Yes, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
2940. Do you remember the name of the pilot, Mr. Galway?
- His name is Bernier.
2941. Who was on the bridge at the time your steering gear jammed?
- Second officer and pilot.
By Lord Mersey:
2942. What was the second officer’s name?
- Mr. Williams, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
2943. Nobody else there?
- No one else that I know of.
2944. Do you happen to know whether Mr. Williams reported the accident to the Captain?
- I couldn’t tell you that, sir, it was his place to do so, not mine.
2945. Did you see the Captain on the bridge at that particular time?
- I did not, sir.
2946. Now what was done, do you know, to prevent serious trouble when you lost control so far as the rudder went?
- I do not know.
2947. Did you hear the telegraph ring?
- The telegraph rang, yes sir.
2948. Have you any idea what order was given on the telegraph when you reported?
By Lord Mersey:
2949. Do you know? We do not want your ideas; do you know what order was given?
- Slow, I believe, sir.
2950. Do you know it? Did you hear it?
- I saw the telegraph being rung but I cannot see right from the wheelhouse to the bridge, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
2951. Some order was given?
- That is so, sir.
2952. When was that order given with reference to your report to Mr. Williams that your wheel was not working?
- About 20 minutes to 11.
2953. You reported to Mr. Williams that your wheel was out of order?
- I did.
2954. And how soon after that report did you hear the telegraph ring?
- About two minutes later, I should say.
2955. Did you feel any difference in the vibration of the boat or could you form any idea at all?
- Yes, I did.
2956. Well, what difference did you notice in the vibration of the vessel?
- I noticed she was slowed down.
2985. Murphy is one of the survivors?
- That is so.
Lord Mersey:
Is Murphy here?
Mr. Haight:
Yes, my Lord. (To witness) From your experience with the other steamers on which you have acted as quartermaster, how does the steering gear of the Empress compare with the steering gears of the other vessels?
- It was altogether different.
2986. Was it easier or harder to work?
- Harder to work.
By Lord Mersey:
2987. Is it the same kind of steering gear?
- Exactly; telemotor gears.
By Mr. Haight:
2988. From your experience, did the ease with which the Empress would swing to her helm compare favourably or unfavourably with the other vessels which you have steered?
- Unfavourably.
2989. Where were you landed after the collision?
- I was on the forward deck, sir.
2990. Where did you go ashore?
- The place we landed at, sir?
2991. Yes.
- At Rimouski.
2992. Did you go ashore on the Evelyn, the Eureka or what?
- Lady Evelyn.
2993. Where did you go from Rimouski?
- We stopped in Rimouski I should say about five hours.
2994. And then where did you go?
Lord Mersey:
What has this to do with it?
Mr. Haight:
I am only going to follow it up, my Lord, by showing what was somewhat shown this morning.
Lord Mersey:
You cannot do that; it may be done on cross-examination, but not by you. You can ask him anything you like about the steering gear.
Mr. Haight:
May I, my Lord, show anything as to the suggestions that he leave the country, made by various persons?
Lord Mersey:
Certainly not; you may on re-examination, if the occasion is afforded you on cross-examination.
By Mr. Haight:
2995. Where were you when the collision occurred, Galway?
- I was on the forward deck.
2996. How long had you been on the forward deck before the collision happened?
- About three quarters of an hour.
2997. Did you hear signals blown by the Empress before the collision?
- I did.
2998. What whistles did you hear?
- I heard one long blast.
2999. How many times?
- I heard it twice.
3000. And what other whistles did you hear?
- I heard three short blasts.
3001. How many times?
- Once.
3002. Captain Kendall has stated, Galway, that he never blew a signal of one whistle? Are you sure that your recollection is clear?
- I am almost certain, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
3003. What does that mean, that you are almost certain? Who in your opinion is more likely to know, the Captain of the ship, or you?
- The Captain of the ship, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
3004. And what is your best recollection, Galway?
- My best recollection is what I said, sir.
3005. Do you remember fog coming on?
- I do.
3006. Were you on the deck when the fog came on?
- I was.
3007. Before the fog set in, had you seen any lights from the Storstad?
- No, I didn’t.
By Lord Mersey:
3008. Were you looking for them?
- I was not, sir; I was not on watch at the time.
By Mr. Haight:
3009. When did you first know of the presence of the Storstad in your immediate vicinity?
- When she was within a hundred feet off.
3010. On which side of you was she then?
- On the starboard side.
3011. And approximately how was she bearing, if you can tell?
- I could not tell you the exact bearing.
3012. Was she roughly, on the bow, amidships, or quarter?
- Oh, she was amidships.
3013. What light did you see?
- I seen her green starboard light, and half the arc of the foremost headlight.
3014. How far away?
- One hundred feet I should say.
3015. How long was that before the contact?
- It was a matter of minutes.
By Lord Mersey:
3016. A matter of minutes?
- A matter of seconds.
Lord Mersey:
Be careful.
By Mr. Haight:
3017. Did you feel the jar of the collision?
- Yes, sir.
3018. Were you thrown off your feet?
- No, I wasn’t.
3019. What was the last you saw of the Storstad after the jar of the collision?
- The last I saw she was a mile and a quarter away on the port beam.
3020. How did the vessels clear, if you remember? Which way did the Storstad go immediately after the jar?
- She seemed to go round the stern of the Empress.
Lord Mersey:
One of my colleagues thinks you ought to have the opportunity of asking this witness what steps if any were taken by the Canadian Pacific Railway officials for the purpose of getting him away so as to prevent him from giving his evidence. Will you ask those questions.
By Mr. Haight:
3021. Yes, my Lord. After you left Rimouski where did you go?
- To Quebec.
3022. How long did you remain at Quebec?
- I should think about four days.
3023. Did you during those four days see any representative of the Canadian Pacific Railway?
- Did I see?
3024. Yes.
- No, not that I know of.
3025. Where did you go from Quebec?
- To Montreal, sir.
3026. Did you, in Montreal, see any representative of the Canadian Pacific?
- Yes, I did.
3027. Whom did you see?
- I seen Mr. Holden and Mr. Beatty.
3028. Anybody else?
- Captain Walsh.
3029. Whom did you see first?
- I spoke to Captain Walsh, sir.
3030. Then next you saw whom?
- Mr. Beatty.
3031. And third?
- Mr. Holden.
3032. Were there three separate interviews or were Mr. Beatty and Mr. Holden together?
- Separate, sir.
Mr. Haight:
May I, my Lord, properly ask him what statement he made?
Lord Mersey:
I think now you are at liberty to say anything.
By Mr. Haight:
3033. Will you please state, Galway, the statements you made to Captain Walsh, whom, I understand, you saw first?
- Well, sir, I told him about the steering gear of the Empress.
3034. Say just what you told him?
- I told him exactly what I have said about the steering gear.
3035. About the steering gear on which occasion?
By Lord Mersey:
3036. On all the occasions? Did you tell him about all the occasions?
- Yes.
3037. That is to say, the occasion when you were coming up the St. Lawrence?
- That is so.
3038. The occasion when you were going down the St. Lawrence and the occasion when you were on the River Mersey?
- I told him of two occasions.
3039. Which two?
- In the St. Lawrence.
3040. Did you tell him of the occasion in the Mersey?
- I did not.
3041. Did you tell that to anybody?
- I did not.
By Mr. Haight:
3042. How soon after you arrived in Montreal did you see Captain Walsh?
- I think it would be about nine days; that is as far as I can recollect.
3043. You were four days in Quebec? You then went to Montreal?
- Yes.
3044. You mean you had been in Montreal nine days before you saw Captain Walsh?
- Yes.
3045. Where did the interview take place?
- Captain Walsh’s office.
3046. What did Captain Walsh say to you when you told him about the trouble with the steering gear going up and coming down?
- He told me that was a common thing, for the steering gear to be like that. He first of all told me that when the wheel was amidships, when you want to put it hard-a-port, we will say, you want to bring it back again to amidships and then put it over again.
By Lord Mersey:
3047. What else did he say?
- He said: I see nothing wrong with it. He says: I know all about it.
3048. What else did he say?
- That is all I know.
3049. Now did you say anything more?
- Only to Mr. Beatty.
3050. Did you say anything more to Mr. Walsh?
- No, sir.
3051. Is that all the interview you ever had with Mr. Walsh?
- Yes.
3052. You never had any other interviews?
- None whatever.
3053. What interviews had you with Mr. Beatty?
- I also stated about the steering gear.
3054. You told him the same thing; did you mention the Mersey to him?
- I did not.
3055. You mentioned only the two instances in the River St. Lawrence?
- Yes.
3056. What did he say?
- What Mr. Beatty told me, he says: I understand it. Well, he says, you want to keep your own counsel about these things.
3057. You have got to keep your own counsel about these things?
- You ought to keep your own counsel about these things.
3058. What did you say to that?
- I left the room.
3059. Did you see Mr. Beatty again?
- No.
3060. Never?
- No.
3061. Now as to Mr. Holden?
- That was the man who took our evidence first.
3062. Did you tell him about these two incidents in the St. Lawrence?
- No, sir.
3063. Did you tell him about Liverpool?
- I did not.
3064. Did you have any conversation about the steering gear?
- No, sir.
3065. Then there is nothing that took place between you and Mr. Holden that is of consequence in connection with the steering gear?
- No, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
3066. I understood you to say to His Lordship that Mr. Holden took your evidence first?
- That is so.
3067. When did he take your evidence?
- I could not exactly say the date.
3068. Was that in Montreal?
- In Montreal.
3069. How soon after your arrival?
- The same day.
3070. The day of your arrival?
- Yes.
3071. That was before you saw Captain Walsh and Mr. Beatty then?
- That is so.
By Lord Mersey:
3072. You did not mention the steering gear to him?
- I was not asked.
3073. Never mind about what you were asked. You were asked to tell what you knew about the matter?
- Not as regards the steering gear.
3074. But you were asked to tell all you knew about the collision?
- No, sir.
3075. Were you not asked to tell all you knew?
- Not exactly all I knew.
3076. Why. Were you told not to tell something?
- No, I was not.
3077. Very well, you were told to tell everything that was of importance - is that true?
- As far as I know.
3078. You were expected to tell everything that was of importance?
- To the company, sir.
3079. Still you did not tell anything about the steering?
- No, sir.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
3080. Except to the company?
- Yes.
3081. Not to the court?
- There was no court sitting.
By Mr. Haight:
3082. Were you, Mr. Galway asked specific questions by Mr. Holden?
- Just as regards the position of the Storstad.
Lord Mersey:
I do not suppose he knows what a specific question is. (To witness.) Were you questioned by Mr. Holden?
- I was.
By Mr. Haight:
3083. Did you answer all the questions that were put to you?
- Yes.
3084. Were you asked for any information outside of the particular questions which were put to you?
- No.
3085. Were there a large number of other men being examined at the same time?
- No, there was one man -
3086. Immediately before and after you?
- There was one man - the lookout.
3087. What was the first suggestion that was made as to your returning to England?
- The first thing I knew about it was that they gave me a ticket to go home.
3088. On what steamer?
- The Empress of Britain.
3089. How soon was that after the collision?
- I did not keep a record.
3090. Were you in Montreal or Quebec?
- In Montreal.
3091. You had seen Captain Walsh and Mr. Beatty?
- I had.
3092. You did not go on the Empress of Britain?
- No.
By Lord Mersey:
3093. Why not?
- I thought there were reasons for not doing so.
3091. What were the reasons?
- Well sir, I had told Capt. Walsh and Mr. Beatty
3095. It had nothing to do with your laundry? Did you mention your laundry?
- Yes.
3096. What did you say about your laundry?
- I told him I was waiting for the laundry.
3097. Did you make that an excuse for not going on the Empress of Britain?
- No.
3098. What did you say about the laundry?
- I said it was not ready for me to go but I told him - I said that is not the point I am staying back for.
3099. Let me have this conversation. Tell me exactly what you said to him about your laundry.
- I said that my laundry was not ready.
3100. Why did you say that?
- Why did I say that?
3101. Yes; you did not say it to him as the explanation why you were not going away?
- I did not.
3102. Then why? What interest did you suppose he would take in your laundry?
- Well, sir, the company was looking after the interests of all.
3103. Do you mean they were looking after your laundry.
- Yes.
3104. Were you complaining that the company had not sent back your loundry?
- That was so.
3105. And that was the only reason why you mentioned it?
- That is so.
3106. Are you sure?
- That is the only reason.
By Mr. Haight:
3107. What was the next steamer you were told you might go home on? -
By Lord Mersey:
3108. You were telling us the reasons why you would not go back by the Empress of Britain?
- Yes.
3109. What were the reasons?
- Because I wanted to tell Captain Walsh about the steering gear.
3110. But you did tell him about it?
- Yes I did.
3111. You had told him about it?
- Yes, I had told him about it.
3112. Did you think you were going to make anything out of it?
- Not in the least, sir.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
3113. Was it the complaint you had made that prevented you from going on board of the Empress of Britain?
- About the steering gear?
3114. Was that the reason?
- That is so, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
3115. I do not know why that should have kept you back; you had told Captain Walsh -
- You see, Lord Mersey -
Lord Mersey:
I will leave it to some one else.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
3116. Were you afraid?
- Of what?
3117. To go on board the Empress of Britain on account of the disaster?
- No, none whatever.
3118. What is the reason?
- Because I think that the steering gear is the main asset in the saving of lives.
3119. Lord Mersey: The main asset. Have you any more questions to ask? Let us get at the incident and finish it. It is an incident that I do not like at all.
Mr. Haight:
Nor I.
By Mr. Haight:
3120. What was the next steamer it was suggested you should take?
- The Montreal.
3121. You received a letter addressed to the Captain of the Montreal?
- That is so.
3122. Which letter you handed me last night?
- That is so.
3123. Why did you not go on the Montreal?
- I was justified in staying back.
By Lord Mersey:
3124. That is not an answer to the question. Why did you not go on the Montreal?
- My answer is because I was justified in staying back.
3125. How are you justified? You are a free man, and you need not go on the Montreal unless you choose, but what was your reason for not going?
- To stay back to tell what I have already told.
By Mr. Haight:
3126. Did you have any discussion with any representative of the C.P.R. as to why you had not gone on the Empress of Britain or why you had not gone on the Montreal?
- Yes, sir.
3127. With whom?
- Mr. Curtis.
3128. Who is he?
- He is what I think is Captain Walsh’s secretary or writer; I do not know exactly what he is.
3129. Was he the man who gave you a letter addressed to the Captain of the Montreal?
- He was the man who gave it to me.
3130. What did he say?
- Take this down to Captain Griffiths and sign on as supernumerary quartermaster.
3131. Did he say anything to you about why you had not gone on the Empress of Britain?
- Yes.
3132. What did he say?
- He says: Why is it you have not gone home by the Empress of Britain?
3133. What did you answer?
- I says: I have my own reasons for that.
By Lord Mersey:
3134. Did you not tell him anything else? Did you talk to him in that mysterious way and say: I have my own reasons?
- Not that I know.
3135. What did you say?
- I told him I had evidence.
3136. Speak it out; let us hear what it was. Did he ask you what evidence you had?
- No.
3137. Then what was said when you said: I have evidence?
- I told him I desired to see Captain Walsh.
3138. Did you see Captain Walsh?
- Yes, that was the morning.
3139. Was that the morning that you told Captain Walsh what you have told us here to-day?
- That is so.
By Mr. Haight:
3140. After you had failed to go on the Montreal, did anybody ask you why you had not gone on her?
- Yes they did.
3141. Who?
- Mr. Curtis.
3142. That is the second time he asked you why you had not gone?
- That is so.
3143. Was any suggestion made that you go on another steamer?
- No, only this morning I got news to go by the Calgarian.
3144. From whom?
- Very probably Captain Elliott.
By Lord Mersey:
3145. Do not say “probably”; it is something which happened this morning?
- Yes, sir.
3146. What time?
- About nine o’clock.
3147. Who was it that told you?
- It was the office boy that was sent up.
3148. Do you know his name?
- I do not know.
3149. Did he bring it up in writing?
- He did not.
3150. What did the office boy say?
- That I was wanted down at the office.
3151. Did you go to the office?
- I did.
3152. What did they say to you there?
- You have got to go home on the Calgarian.
3153. When does the Calgarian sail?
- To-day.
3154. Has she sailed?
- Not that I know of.
3155. Where does she sail - from Quebec?
- Quebec.
3156. What did you say to that?
- I refused to go.
3157. Is this the whole story?
- It is as far as I know.
By Mr. Haight:
3158. You received a subpoena last night?
- That is so.
By Mr. Newcombe:
3159. Did you read your subpoena?
-
Lord Mersey:
I hope he did not; it would be quite unintelligible if he did.
By Mr. Newcombe:
3160. Were you aware that you were to attend at ten o’clock this morning by the terms of that subpoena?
-
By Lord Mersey:
3161. Do you know what a subpoena is?
- Yes.
3162. What is it?
- It is a document stating that you are to stop from going home. That is all I know of.
By Mr. Newcombe:
3163. Did you understand that it required you to attend here at ten o’clock this morning?
- No, I did not.
Lord Mersey:
Is that the fault of your subpoena?
Mr. Newcombe:
It was stated plainly enough in the subpoena. (To witness) I thought you understood that it was a subpoena to attend here this morning at ten o’clock.
- I did not understand it; I did not understand I should be called.
3164. You did not understand you were expected to be here?
- I did not understand I should be called.
By Lord Mersey:
3165. By anybody?
- Not that I know of.
By Mr. Newcombe:
3166. What did you think the purpose of this subpoena was?
- I thought it was to keep me from going home.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3167. Are you a bit of a sea lawyer?
- What, sir?
316S. Do you know the phrase “a sea lawyer?”
- I do.
3169. Do you say you are a sea lawyer?
- I do not.
3170. When you came ashore, as you tell us, you were seen by Mr. Holden?
- That is the man.
3171. This is Mr. Holden (indicating), is it not?
- That is so.
3172. And the incidents connected with this disaster were fresh in your mind?
- That is so.
3173. And as you have said, you thought the question of steering gear was the main asset in saving life?
- I did so.
3174. Did you think that any information in regard to this steering gear was of very great importance in this case?
- I do, sir.
3175. Did you at the time you saw this gentleman?
- Yes, sir.
3176. You have told us that you never told him a word about it?
- No, I did not; I was not asked for it.
3177. You were very ready to volunteer it later?
- No, sir, I was ready to volunteer it then, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
3178. I was ready to volunteer what?
- To volunteer evidence then.
3179. Why did you not do it then?
- They shut us up almost immediately.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3180. I have here what purports to be the stenographer’s copy of what you told Mr. Holden. I have got from page 277 of this somewhat large volume to page 294 of information that you were giving Mr. Holden?
- Yes.
3181. Do you think you are right in saying that they shut you up almost at once?
- Do I think I am right?
Lord Mersey:
Listen to the question and answer it.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3182. You suggested to me that these gentlemen who were seeking information from you almost shut you up at once. Do you remember telling us that?
- Yes.
3183. I am pointing out to you that, if this book is right, I have got from page 277 to page 294 in typewriting the statements that you were making to Mr. Holden in regard to this collision?
- Yes.
3684. In view of that fact do you still repeat that Mr. Holden was shutting you up?
- They never told us to give our right evidence.
By Lord Mersey:
3185. What do you say?
- They never - they never asked - they only asked us to a certain amount.
3186. Did you understand that they wanted you to keep back your evidence?
- No, sir.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3187. What do you mean when you state: They never told us to give our right evidence?
- What do I mean?
3188. That is the question.
- What do I mean, sir?
3189. Do you not understand what I am asking you?
- Yes, I understand, sir.
3190. Well answer it, please.
- When I told him what he said - he said: Is that all?
By Lord Mersey:
3191. He said: Is that all?
- Yes.
3192. Did you say: Yes it is?
- I said: “Yes, it is,” at the time.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3193. We are dealing with that time you know?
- Yes.
3194. Are you really telling the truth?
- Well, I do not think I would come here to this Court to tell you an untruth.
By Lord Mersey:
3195. Are you telling us the truth?
- Yes, sir.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3196. You have made certain statements in regard to the whistles that you heard?
- Yes.
3197. Amongst other things you told Mr. Haight that the Empress blew single long blasts and that you heard them. Did you tell Mr. Holden that?
- I told him that.
3198. Will you swear?
- Yes.
3199. I have read through this book. We can get, if need be, the stenographer to certify the accuracy of it and I tell you frankly I cannot find the statement. Are you sure that you told Mr. Holden that you heard single long blasts blown on the whistle of the Empress?
- I told him I heard the Empress whistle blowing.
By Lord Mersey:
3200. That is not the question?
- Yes, sir.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3201. Why do you not answer the question?
- You asked me the question and I said, ‘yes, sir.'
Lord Mersey:
No you did not.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3202. In that connection, let me ask you then when you went to see Mr. Haight last night did you give him the information then in his room that the Empress blew single long blasts?
- Yes, sir.
3203. How came you to give Mr. Haight that information last night?
- How came I, sir?
3204. I wish you would not repeat what I say. Do you not hear what I say?
- Yes.
3205. Well then, it is unnecessary to repeat it.
- I was asked.
3206. By whom?
- By Mr. Haight.
By Lord Mersey:
3207. What did he ask you?
- He asked me did I know anything about the blowing of the whistle on the Empress?
3208. What did you say?
- I told him that it had been blowing all the time.
3209. Is that all you told him?
- No, sir.
3210. About the whistling. What else did you tell him?
- About the steering gear.
3211. No, is that all you told him about the whistling?
- That is all.
3212. And what you told him about the whistling was that the whistle was going all the time?
- That I know of.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3214. Did you tell this gentleman that you heard the Empress whistle sounding three short blasts twice?
- Yes.
3214|. That is the fact, is it not?
- Yes.
3215. Do you remember being asked this question:
“Was your ship sounding her siren all the time, what signal was it? - Two blasts.”
Do you remember being asked about the Empress blowing two blasts?
“That is a signal meaning - I am still in the water in a fog.
- Yes, sir.”
3216. And you told that gentleman this? That was within a few days after this accident had happened and everything was fresh in your memory?
- Yes.
By Lord Mersey:
3217. Was that true?
- As far as I know, yes, sir.
3218. Is it as true, at all events, as what you have told us to-day?
- Well, yes, sir.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3219. It is true?
- It is true.
3220. Having got this important information in regard to the steam steering gear did you at a later date go and see Captain Walsh and Mr. Beatty?
- I did so, sir.
3221. Did you tell them what you have told us here about the steering?
- Yes.
3222. Is it not a fact that after you told Captain Walsh and Mr. Beatty about this incident they at once said: Now you have got to stay?
- After I told them, sir.
3223. That is the question.
By Lord Mersey:
3224. Do not repeat the questions but answer them?
- I do not think he exactly -
By Mr. Aspinall:
32215. Only tell what you are asked?
- I do not think you are putting it in what I think the right manner.
3226. Will you put it for me if you think you can put it in the right manner? In what respect am I putting it wrongly?
Chief Justice McLeod:
Suppose you repeat the question.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3227. After you had seen Captain Walsh and Mr. Beatty and told them you were making complaints about some of the steering gear, were you then told that instead of being sent home you would have to stay?
- Instead of being home I would have to stay?
3228. That is the question.
- That is right, sir.
3229. And in consequence of that you have stayed?
- That is right, sir.
By Lord Mersey:
3230. Did these two gentlemen, representing the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, tell you, after you had told them that there was something wrong with the steering gear: Then you must stay for the inquiry?
- They did.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3231. The night before last did you pay Captain John Walsh a second visit?
- The night before last?
3232. Why do you repeat my questions?
- I think it is only right to do so, sir.
3233. Answer the question.
- Yes, sir, I did.
3234. What had you got in your mind when you went to see Captain Walsh the second time?
- I had in my mind to get a room; I had no room at the time.
3235. You wanted something?
- Yes, sir.
3236. Was it more than a room?
- Was it more than a room? That is all I wanted, sir.
3237. I am not suggesting that at any time you asked for money.
- You are as much as suggesting that, sir.
3238. Why did you go to see Captain Walsh to ask for a room? He is a gentleman of some position, is he not?
- Yes.
3239. Why did you select Captain Walsh for a visit the night before last?
- Because I was sent down here from the company’s head office, and that is the only man that could have done so because when I went to the office at the Chateau Frontenac they told me I would have to see Captain Walsh.
3240. What did Captain Walsh say to you on the second occasion?
- He told me that I would probably be here a week.
3241. Then the next evening you pay this surprise visit to Mr. Haight?
- Yes.
3242. What really prompted you to go to Mr. Haight -
- The truth, sir.
3243. You are so anxious that the truth should be brought out that you go to see Mr. Haight?
- I was advised to do so.
3244. Is your suggestion that Capt. Walsh was doing anything which would result in concealing the truth from the tribunal?
- Well, going home in the Calgarian - that is so.
3245. But this incident about your going home on the Calgarian occured this mornign and you saw Mr. Haight yesterday. -
- Last night.
3246. The visit to Mr. Haight occurred before the Calgarian incident?
- Last night I heard of it, but definitely they did not tell me till this morning to get a ticket to go home on the Calgarian.
3247. You had heard of it?
- Yes.
3248. Is your suggestion that Capt. Walsh, having seen you and told you to stay, and having said ‘You will be here a week,’ has suddenly changed his mind and is seeking to smuggle you out of the country this afternoon? Is that the suggestion?
- That is the only suggestion I can make.
By Lord Mersey:
3249. Do you believe it? Now come, you know Mr. Walsh - do you believe it?
- That is the only thing I can suggest.
By Mr. Aspinall:
3250. I pass away from that. I want to ask you on how many occasions have you steered this ship?
- We are at the wheel all the time at sea on and off.
3251. Extending over a period of how long?
- Two hours.
3252. But how long have you been on this ship?
- That is the right way to put the question. You did not ask me that before. Two voyages, sir.
3253. You do not seem to like my questions.
- Well, I would like if you could put them more plain, sir.
3254. You have been two voyages?
- Yes, sir.
3255. And you have been steering the ship on a great number of occasions?
- Yes, sir.
3256. If I understood your evidence aright, it was only on one occasion that the helm had jammed?
- It jammed once, yes.
3257. It was hard to work on that one occasion?
- Yes.
3258. On the other occasions when you used the wheel it went over readily enough but the ship for some strange reason, although you had got your wheel over, sheered about?
- That is so.
3259. That explains all the trouble you have had with the steering of this vessel?
- Yes.
3260. There is one other matter that perhaps I ought to have asked you about, Mr. Galway. Did you tell Mr. Holden, when you saw him at Montreal, when you were asked if ' the reversing of your engines took the ship’s way off' that you thought so? Was your answer, ‘I think so.’ You have told me this afternoon that you told Mr. Holden that your whistle was twice blown and that it blew three short blasts?
- Yes.
3261. That is right, is it? And in connection with the reversing of her engines, Mr. Holden asked you the question whether the reversing of the engines took your way off. Do you remember?
- Yes, that is so.
3262. He said, “Do you think they took her way off? - I think so.”
- What I understood him to say was how many minutes did it take the stern way off the ship and I answered ‘seven minutes.’
3263. Let me repeat this:
“ They stopped the engines and then reversed them and then kept on going astern for a certain length of time? - Yes.
Do you think they took her way off? - I think so.
Did she get any stern way? - I do not think so.”
Did you tell this gentleman that?
- Yes.
3264. Is it right; is it correct?
- I say yes, sir.
By Mr. Haight:
3265. Were you also asked how many minutes you thought it would take going full speed astern to bring the steamer to a dead stop?
- I was.
3266. What was your answer to that?
- Seven minutes.
3267. I understood you to say on your cross-examination that after seeing Mr. Beatty and Capt. Walsh they told you that you must stay on this side?
- That is so.
3268. Both of them told you that at the time of your interview - or which gentleman interviewed you?
- Yes.
3269. Was that before or after you received the letter addressed to the captain of the Montreal?
- Capt. Walsh told me if you want to go home you can do so, but I have stopped back.
3270. Did Capt. Walsh say that to you before or after he told you you must stay?
- After.
3271. You said on your cross-examination that you had heard about their wanting you to go home on the Calgarian to-day. When did you hear about that?
- I heard about it last night.
3272. From whom?
- From the office lad.
3273. Did you make any statement to me last night on this subject?
-
Lord Mersey:
This is becoming a most curious examination. In all my life I have never heard any counsel ask a witness to repeat the statements that he made to him in private.
Mr. Haight:
I thought that having been cross-examined by the other side as to what he had said -
Lord Mersey:
It is becoming to my mind, so utterly irregular that I really cannot interfere - you must finish it in your own way.
Mr. Haight:
I do not care to press the question.
Lord Mersey:
If we were to pursue this to the end we should have you in the witness box and have you cross-examined and that, at all events, I am not going to allow.
Mr. Haight:
It would not be a matter that I would object to. If anybody wished to cross-examine me I would be willing to submit to it.
Lord Mersey:
Well then, you are a very odd man. (To witness.) Do you say that the steering gear of the Empress of Ireland misbehaved on one occasion when you were going up the St. Lawrence and that was an occasion when you were in a narrow channel?
- Yes.
3274. And was that the occasion when, in consequence of her not answering the wheel, she came within 40 feet of some other vessel?
- Yes.
3275. Do you know whether in that narrow channel there are any strong currents?
- Yes, there was.
3276. Did the currents aifect the movement of the ship?
- To a certain extent, sir.
3277. Is the wheel always able at once to counteract the effects of these currents?
- It is not.
3278. Were you in a channel where these currents are found?
- I was.
Mr. Aspinall:
This witness has stated that he told both Murphy and the pilot and they are here.
Lord Mersey:
Very well, we had better finish it.