Examined by Mr. Haight:
1376. Now Captain, before asking you anything about the matter, I would request you in answering the questions, instead of facing me, to turn a bit to one side so that the Court can hear, and try to speak loud enough so t hat everybody will hear?
- I will try.
1377. You were the master of the steamship Storstad at the time of the collision with the Empress of Irelandwere you not?
- I was.
1378. How long have you been in command of the Storstad?
- Very nearly three years.
1379. Did you take command of her when she was new?
- A few months later.
1380. And you have been in command of her ever since?
- Yes.
1381. On the night of the collision, at what hour did you go below?
- I went below about eleven o’clock in the evening.
1382. Where was the Storstad then?
- She was about six miles below Matane.
1383. That was Sydney time?
- Yes.
1384. What were the weather conditions then?
- It was calm and clear.
1385. Who were on watch when you went below?
- The second officer.
1386. What was the next watch and when was it to change?
- At twelve o’clock the first and third officer came on watch.
1387. Is it customary at night for you to have both the first officer and third officer on the bridge on watch?
- It is.
1388. There was nothing unusual then about this instance?
- No.
1389. How soon did you turn in after you went below?
- I turned in about eleven o’clock, a little after.
1390. As soon as you went below you turned in?
- Yes, right after I went below.
1391. Now, when did you first get a report from the bridge after you had turned into your bunk?
- Well, I couldn’t say exactly the hour, but shortly before three o’clock.
1392. And what report did you get?
- Well, he called me and said it was getting hazy.
1393. Who called you?
- The first officer.
1394. State as exactly as you can remember just what he said and you said?
- As near as I can remember he said: 'It is getting hazy,' and I asked him, 'Can you see Father Point light?' And he said, 'It is just closing off now.'
1395. How did he speak to you, through what?
- Well, in the ordinary way.
1396. Yes, but through what - there is a deck between you, is there not?
- Yes, he spoke to me through a speaking-tube from the bridge to my bunk.
1397. There is a speaking-tube from the bridge that goes right to the head of your bunk?
- Yes.
1398. How soon after he spoke to you did you go on to the bridge?
- A few moments.
1399. You went right up?
- Yes, I went right up.
1400. When you went on to the bridge what did you first do?
- At first when I got up on the bridge I went amidships to the compass - as a rule I always do when I get up, to see where the ship is heading.
1401. And when you looked into the compass how was she heading?
- West by south half south on the compass.
1402. That would mean what course magnetic?
- West by south.
1403. Did you look at the telegraph?
- No, I did not. The first officer was standing at the telegraph at the time.
1404. Well, after you looked at the compass what was the next thing you did?
- I barely got to the compass when I sighted the other steamer.
1405. And when you sighted the other steamer, what did you see?
- I saw a light, and the hull of the ship loomed up on our port side.
1406. Was it the masthead light that you sighted first?
- One of the masthead lights, yes.
1407. And did you see any coloured light?
- I saw a green light.
1408. Now when you could first see the light how did it bear from your vessel?
- Well, I did not take any special bearing, but it was at least three points on our port bow.
1409. As the Empress loomed up so that you could see the outline of her hull, how much was her stem, when you could first make it out, to port of your course?
- Well, that I couldn’t exactly say, but I took the whole hull of the ship as I saw it, and that was at least three points on our port bow.
1410. That is, you drew no distinction between the bearing of the stem of the Empress and the bearing of her stern?
- No.
1411. Now as nearly as you can, will you estimate the distance between the Empress and the Storstad when you could first make out the vessel’s light?
- I couldn’t exactly say, but I would imagine it would be a couple of ship’s lengths.
1412. Lord Mersey: That would be about 800 feet?
- Yes, from 600 to 800 feet.
By Mr. Haight:
1413. The instant that you saw the Empress, what did you do?
- I ran to the telegraph and rang full speed astern.
1414. Did you get an answer to that signal?
- Well, I didn’t exactly notice, but I am sure it was working; I felt the ship.
1415. You felt the vibration?
- Yes.
1416. Now, as well as you can estimate it, how long do you think your engines were going full speed astern before the actual instant of contact?
- I couldn’t exactly say, but I would think it would be nearly half a minute.
1417. Can you now give us any estimate as to whether or not the bow of your vessel swung to starboard under the reversed engines, and if so, how much?
- The stern of a vessel will swing to starboard on the reversed engines after the ship starts to go astern, but she had not started to go astern at that time, and it could not be very much.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
1418. Will you please repeat that, Captain Andersen?
- They do not start to swing very much before the ship starts to go astern on the reversed engines, and it could not be very much at that time.
1419. That is your ship?
- Yes.
By Mr. Haight:
1420. Would the influence of your reversed engines within the thirty seconds or so that you were reversing have changed your heading as much as a point?
- It might between half a point and a point, or something like that - I can’t say exactly.
1421. Could it have changed it more than a point?
- Not much.
1422. What in your judgment is the utmost that you could change the heading of your steamer under reversed engines in thirty seconds under the conditions of speed as you found them that night?
- I should say between half a point and a point.
1423. Do you know how the wheel was at the time you came on to the bridge and looked at the compass, as you have just told us?
- I didn’t notice.
1424. Now, Captain Andersen, will you please take the models and also indicate the relative positions of the two vessels at the actual instant of contact, and then make a second diagram or rather I will put it this way, first make a diagram showing how the vessels bore when you first made the Empress out, and second, the position of the two vessels at the actual moment of contact? Use the larger model for the Empress if you please?
- I will. (After a few moments.) I have made a diagram which is filed as Exhibit No. 4 for the Storstad. I have also made a second diagram which is filed as Exhibit No. 5 for the Storstad.
By Lord Mersey:
1425. Captain Andersen, when you were starting to make the first diagram you spoiled a sheet of paper, or at least you made an ineffectual attempt to make the diagram, and you discarded that sheet?
- I did.
Lord Mersey:
I wish that sheet containing the ineffectual attempt of the Captain to be filed also as Exhibit No. 3 for the Storstad.
Mr. Haight:
Yes, my Lord, the three sheets will be filed as Exhibits 3, 4 and 5 respectively for the Storstad.
Lord Mersey:
Now, I want to put another question to the Captain.
1426. Taking the two little models, Captain, putting them in the first position as shown in Exhibit 4 for the Storstad, that is to say the position in which you say your ship and the Empress were at the time you first sighted the Empress that is take your own sketch filed as Exhibit 4 of the Storstad and put the two models in their respective places, marked on the sketch?
- Yes, I have done so, my Lord.
1427. Now, will you please put a finger upon each of them?
- Yes, sir.
1428. Now, then, will you please move them in the way in which according to you they did move in order to cause the collision?
- Yes, I have done so.
Mr. Haight:
Can he mark them right on that diagram, my Lord?
Lord Mersey:
No, he cannot mark a moving thing.
Mr. Haight:
But that will show how much the Storstad went forward towards the Empress , . . the marking of that diagram will show how much the vessel went ahead respectively towards one another in his opinion.
Lord Mersey:
Yes, I see that.
Sir Adolphe Routhier:
A simple line could be drawn to show that.
By Lord Mersey:
1429. I understand the Empress came up against you and poked a hole in her side against the bow of the Storstad, according to your understanding of it?
- That is as near as I can say it; there was a little way on the Storstad.
1430. You were going very slowly indeed?
- Yes.
1431. So slowly that you were scarcely moving?
Mr. Haight:
My Lord, have you any objection to have the outlines of the two vessels in the position in which he has put them now marked on that diagram hied as Exhibit No. 4 of the Storstad?
Lord Mersey:
No, I have none.
Mr. Haight:
Just put a line around them, Captain, please?
- Yes, I have done so.
1432. That is on the diagram filed as Exhibit No. 4 for the Storstad?
- Yes.
By Lord Mersey:
1433. Now, Captain Andersen, can you suggest any explanation of the whistles that you heard from the Empress?
- I cannot.
1434. She must have been whistling in a very strange manner?
- I did not hear them myself.
1435. But you heard the story?
- Yes.
1436. Her story is that she was indicating by whistles that she was stopped, and your story is that she was going at a great speed?
- She was going at a great speed.
1437. Can you suggest any explanation of that course that the Empress followed?
- I cannot.
1438. The whistles were all lies?
- Yes, so I am told.
1439. They must have been . . . . can you explain or suggest to us why a man in charge of a vessel like the Empress should be using whistles in a sense which would indicate that his vessel was moving in a course in which she was not moving?
- I cannot give any reason.
1440. No, but what is your idea of it, what do you think they were doing with their whistles?
- The only thing is, she must have gone full speed astern and started full speed ahead again to cross our bows.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
1441. Do you think that it was a mistake or a lie?
- I don’t understand.
By Lord Mersey:
1442. You must have discussed this since the collision, Captain Andersen?
- I have discussed it, but I cannot come to any conclusion.
By Mr. Haight:
1443. Assuming, Captain Andersen, that a man blows a signal of three blasts, and then four or five minutes later blows another signal of three blasts, is there anything to indicate that he has been going full speed astern all that time?
- The blasts will indicate that he is going full speed astern.
1444. The blasts will indicate that he is going full speed astern when he blows them?
- Yes.
1445. They do not say how long he is going to keep on going full speed astern?
- No.
1446. Now, if a man who says he can stop a ship in two lengths blows a signal of three blasts, and then four minutes later blows a signal of three blasts again,
- He will go at a good rate astern.
1447. He ought to have backed up half a mile, by the time that second whistle is blown?
- As far as I understand the rules
Mr. Aspinall:
(interrupting) My Lord, I do not think that my learned friend should tell his witness what to say.
Lord Mersey:
I think we shall have to put you in the witness box, Mr. Haight.
Mr. Haight:
But am I not right in saying that Captain Kendall said he could stop his ship in two lengths?
Lord Mersey:
I think that is right.
Mr. Haight:
And if I am not mistaken I think two minutes is the longest time that Captain Kendall indicated it would take him to stop his ship.
Mr. Meredith:
Yes, that is quite right. He said two minutes and he said two lengths.
Lord Mersey:
Go on, Mr. Haight.
By Mr Haight:
1448. I do not think I asked you, Captain Andersen, if before you went on to the bridge you heard any whistles blown either by your vessel or by the other?
- About the same time I was called I heard a two-blast whistle from the Storstad.
. 1449. Did you hear any whistles from the Empress?
- No.
1450. Now Captain, when you put your engines full speed astern, did you blow any whistles?
- I told the third officer to blow three blasts, which he did. He was standing by the compass and the whistle.
1451. When the vessels actually came together, Captain, what was the force of the blow as you felt it on your bridge?
- I hardly felt it at all.
1452. Did you lose your balance?
- No, not the slightest.
1453. How did the jar compare with the ordinary jar when a vessel is docking and swinging up against the pier?
- I think you get just as big a jar getting up alongside a dock. Of course, that will mostly be on the side and we will feel the jar more.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
1454. Would the jar be greater upon your vessel if you were standing still and the Empress came down across the bow of your vessel, or if you were going at eight or ten miles an hour . . . . which would give the greatest jar?
- I think that would be about the same.
1455. No matter whether you were full speed ahead or not?
- She is so heavy when she is loaded that she will have quite an impact before we feel it much amidships.
By Mr Haight:
1456. Now, Captain, as near as you can estimate from the time you first saw the Empress until she went across your bow, what would you say was her speed . . . . I realize you cannot be accurate, but give such judgment as you can?
- I should say eight to ten miles, or something like that, but I cannot say exactly.
1457. And what do you think was your speed . . . . you have indicated on Exhibit 4 a certain forward movement of your ship . . . . now, if she was going eight or ten miles per hour, what speed do you think you were going?
- I say that I looked at the water when I came out and I thought my ship was stopped. When I came out I went right out to the rail and looked at the water, and I thought my ship was stopped, but the speed might have been one or two miles an hour at that time.
1458. Now you have indicated on Exhibit No. 4 of the Storstad about a little less than half a length forward movement of the Storstad and about a length and a half forward movement of the Empress to bring the two vessels together. Is that as near as you can estimate the relative speed of the two vessels?
- It is.
1459. Now from your observation are you able to testify positively that the Empress was moving ahead?
- Positively.
1460. You have heard Captain Kendall’s testimony to the effect that his vessel was absolutely dead in the water and had been so for a matter of some minutes?
- I have.
1461. Does that cause you to change your opinion as to the relative movements of the vessels?
- Not the least.
1462. When the vessels came together what was the immediate effect on both of the contact?
- The effect was that they came together and parted, her stem to our bow, they swung about parallel.
1463. Will you be good enough to take the two models and indicate the relative positions of the two vessels as the Empress cleared your bows?
- I will.
1464. Will you please mark with a pencil around the models as you have them on the paper, thus making a diagram of the position of the two vessels as the Empress cleared your bow?
- Yes, I have done so.
1465. That diagram will be filed as Exhibit No. 6 for the Storstad?
- Yes.
1466. What change, if any, had taken place in your heading from the time the vessels came together until they assumed the positions shown in the diagram which has just been filed as Exhibit 6 of the Storstad?
- I couldn’t exactly say, because it was a few minutes later when I looked at the compass, and then we were going full speed ahead, and when I looked again it was headed somewhere about north, north or north-west, or something like that.
1477. Well, had the impact altered your course in either direction, and if so, in which?
- It turned the bow over to the northwards, to the starboard.
1478. And as well as you could estimate it, your course having been approximately west by south originally, or west, how much do you think your heading was swung to starboard as the result of the momentum of the Empress?
- About eight points. I looked a little after and it might have turned a little farther than when the ship was in contact.
1479. What was your immediate manoeuvre so far as your engines and helm were concerned, just after the vessels cleared each other?
- I stopped my engines at the very moment the vessels cleared.
1480. And why did you do that?
- To stand by and see how things were looking.
1481. To see if you were going to float?
- Yes.
1482. And after that, Captain, what was the next order to your engines?
- Slow ahead.
1483. And your wheel?
- Port helm.
1484. What were you intending to do then?
- To get near the shore if it proved the ship would sink, to beach her in case she would sink.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
1485. Could you see the damage done to the Empress?
- It was too dark, I couldn’t see.
By Mr. Haight:
1486. How long was it after you had stopped the engines before you ordered them ahead with a view of getting close to the shore?
- That I couldn’t say, but it was just a matter of perhaps a minute or so.
1487. Now when you made up your mind that you would work in towards the shore, which was the quicker way to head, under a port wheel or a starboard wheel?
- It would be quicker with a port wheel, I considered.
1488. Now, just before the vessels touched, did you hear any hail from the Empress, Captain Andersen?
- I did.
1489. What did you hear?
- I heard someone shouting 'Don’t go astern.’
1490. How much space do you think intervened between your stem and the side of the Empress when the hail was heard?
- It was very close, her bow was starting across my ship.
1491. Her bow had started to cross your course?
- Yes, her bow had entered my bow over to the other side.
1492. I understand you mean that her bow had crossed your course, but the vessels had not touched?
- No, they were not in contact.
By Lord Mersey:
1493. Still the hail that you heard from the Empress meant to keep her in the hole you were just going to make?
- That is what I understood.
By Mr. Haight:
1494. Did you hear the hail more than once?
- A couple of times.
1495. And what did you do?
- As soon as the ships were in contact I put her full speed ahead, and I sung out "The ship is going full speed ahead."
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
1496. That was to keep her in the hole?
- That was just when the ships came in contact.
1497. And your idea was to keep the stem of your ship in the hole in the side of the Empress?
- Yes.
By Mr. Haight:
1498. As I understand Captain Kendall’s evidence, he hailed you and told you not to go astern, or to go ahead, and keep in the wound, but he heard no reply from your bridge at all?
- I did reply, but I did not have a megaphone in my hand so it might be he did not hear it, I can’t say as to that, but the people on board my ship heard it.
1499. At any rate, Captain, your engines were put full speed ahead?
- Yes.
1500. As quickly as you could do it, at the instant of contact?
- Yes.
1501. Could you have done anything more to keep your bow in the wound?
- I could not.
1502. When the Empress disappeared into the fog did you blow any whistles to her?
- I blew continuously, but I didn’t hear any answer.
1503. Did you know at that time that she was hurt more than you were?
- No, I thought at that time that the Empress was leaving us.
1504. Judging from the heading of your vessel, what do you think the heading of the Empress was when the two vessels came into contact?
- That I couldn’t exactly say, but I should think it would be about north or north-east or something like that.
1505. Is it in your judgment possible that she was at the time of collision heading north 72 east magnetic?
- Impossible.
1506. Now what did you do with reference to manning your boats and the protection of your own ship and the saving of lives?
- Immediately after the collision I sent the mate forward to sound the cargo-hold to see if she was making water.
By Lord Mersey:
1507. Before we leave the question of the course of the vessels, I would like to ask this question, what would be the correct course of the Empress if she was putting out to sea?
- As a rule, I myself keep north-east, a north-east course from Father Point until I got out well clear of the shore.
1508. Are you suggesting she was not being properly navigated to get out to sea?
- That I couldn’t say. I wouldn’t have done it.
1509. You wouldn’t have done it?
- No.
1510. Isn’t that the course the steamers always take going out to sea from Father Point?
- That is up to the judgment of the different captains. I think some go closer and some farther out.
1511. What do you think her course ought to be if she was going out to sea? I haven’t heard it suggested yet that there was anything wrong in the course she took?
- I don’t think the course was much wrong.
1512. Then you think it was a right course?
- I think it was a right course if there were no ships in the road.
1513. Then she was on the course on which she ought to be put to get out to sea?
- I think she could steer that course.
1514. Do you suggest that she changed that course?
- That is what I believe, and that is what she must have done.
1515. What do you suggest that she changed it for?
- That is a thing I cannot say, but I might think when the fog set in the ship was trying to get farther out in clear weather, thought the weather might be clearer out there than along the shore.
By Chief Justice McLeod:
1516. Farther off shore, you mean?
- Yes.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
1517. Do you suggest that her first course was a crossing course?
- The first course must have been a crossing course.
By Mr. Haight:
1518. Now, please tell us what you did about ordering your boats cleared?
- Immediately after the collision I ordered the mate forward to sound the tanks, and the third mate I sent to call all hands on deck to man the lifeboats and get them out and I blew the whistle myself.
1519. Now, when did you first get the idea as to where the Empress had gone?
- That is when I heard a hailing from the passengers or crew of the Empress.
1520. Now, at that time had you turned your vessel about on the port wheel?
- I had turned my vessel about on the port helm until a little to the east of Father Point light.
1521. You were headed in shore a little to the east of Father Point light, is that what I am to understand?
- Yes.
1522. And you say you heard what?
- I heard cries on my port bows from the passengers. At first I didn’t know what it was, it was like one sound.
1523. What did you do then to get down to the Empress?
- I hauled the ship back for the Empress.
1524. Under what wheel?
- On the starboard wheel.
1525. And you put your engines which way?
- Slow ahead.
1526. Swinging her head off from shore?
- Yes, towards the Empress.
1527. And how close did you get to the Empress?
- I got about a ship length and a half way, and put the engines full speed astern, and turned her around astern towards the Empress.
1528. And did you back up then?
- I backed up as near the Empress until some one sung out from aft “Don’t'go any closer.”
1529. That was the Chief Officer?
- I heard afterwards it was the Chief Officer, but at the time I couldn’t tell who it was.
1530. And then you stopped the engines?
- Yes.
1531. Captain Kendall’s impression is that the vessels were a half or three-quarters of a mile apart while the passengers were being picked up and transferred from the water to the Storstad?
- We were so near that a passenger from the Empress could swim around to the Storstad. We saw them swim right up to our stern . . . . I saw them myself.
1532. Did you yourself see the outline of the Empress just before she sank?
- I did.
1533. Do you know which way she was listing?
- As far as I could see, she was listing hard over to starboard.
1534. And which way was she heading with reference to the land?
- Her bow was heading out from the land.
1535. Now, roughly speaking, how many trips did your boats make, and how many people were brought in to the Storstad by your boats?
- I know one of my boats made three trips, and the others two, whether they made any more I can’t say.
1536. Do you know approximately how many survivors were brought aboard by your boats?
- That I couldn’t say.
1537. Did your boats keep going until they were able to find nothing but dead bodies?
- They did.
1538. Now, did you have any discussion with any of the boats of the Empress as to their continuing the work?
- After one boat was empty, a big collapsible boat of the Empress, they had all left, and I sung out to send out the boats and get off again and save more people, and some one down below shouted that she was too heavy, and they wouldn’t go.
1539. You didn’t know who shouted?
- No, I didn’t know who shouted.
1540. What did you order done?
- I ordered my men to get some one down in the boat and get off.
1541. And did that boat make another trip?
- It did.
1542. Manned entirely by your men?
- Yes, manned entirely by my men.
1543. Do you know how many people they picked up in that boat?
- That I heard, but I can’t remember.
1544. Did you see anything in connection with the partial manning of another of the boats of the Empress?
- No, I didn’t see that.
1545. How was the water at the time of the collision and the rescue?
- It was calm and smooth.
1546. No wind at all to speak of?
- Hardly any.
1547. Now just say in a word or two Captain, what you did to alleviate as far as you could the sufferings of the people who were brought aboard?
- We did everything we could. We gave what we had on board as far as clothes and other things are concerned. We did all we could to assist the people.
1548. Many people were without clothes?
- They were mostly all in their night dresses.
1549. And what did you furnish them with in the way of clothing?
- They got my own clothes as well as my wife's clothes, and what we had in the cabin, and so did our officers and crew give away what they could.
1550. I have heard it stated that even curtains and tablecloths were used as clothing?
- Yes, everything that could be used.
1551. And what was done in the way of furnishing them with spirits?
- They got everything we had.
1552. I understand that most of the people that were in the water went down into the engine-room?
- Well, all the people that could walk, and I suppose most of the crew from the Empress went down into the engine-room.
1553. Were there a number that came aboard so exhausted that they had to be lifted and carried?
- Yes, there were.
1554. Where were they taken?
- Some were taken to the cabin and some to the officers’ quarters.
1555. Now, Captain, I wish to ask you a few questions about your ship . . . . what is the dead weight capacity of your ship?
- 3,561 tons . . . . oh, the dead weight, excuse me, that is 10,885 tons.
1556. Her net tonnage?
- Yes.
1557. And her gross?
- 6,028 tons.
1558. And she carries how much?
- 10,885 tons.
1559. Is that without deduction for engine-room space?
- Yes.
1560. What are her dimensions, length, breadth and depth of hull?
- Her length is 452 feet, breadth, 58-2, and. depth, I can’t remember that exactly, but thirty some odd feet.
1561. What is her speed - both loaded and light?
- Her speed loaded is 10 knots, that is what we usually travel.
1562. That is full speed?
- Yes.
1563. And in ballast?
- Twelve knots about.
1564. In proper trim?
- Yes.
1565. That is about the best she can do when trimmed for her best speed?
- Well, we might do a little more by forcing her, but as a rule we don’t do any more.
1566. Approximately, when you are loaded, what is your speed when under an order of half speed, and what on slow?
- Half speed would be about six or seven miles, seven miles let us say, and slow usually four or five miles - about four miles an hour.
1567. Loaded as you were, Captain, was there any sign of a rebound when your vessel touched the Empress?
- There couldn’t be.
1568. Had you been going 10 knots with your full cargo of coal, and struck the Empress about amidships, do you think it would have been possible for you to have backed away at the instant of contact?
- If my ship had been going full speed with the weight there was behind her, I think she would have gone right through the Empress pretty near.
1569. Have photographs been taken, Captain Andersen, showing the nature and extent of the damage to your stem?
- Yes.
1570. Are these the photographs which I now show you?
- Yes.
Mr. Haight:
I will ask that these photographs be marked as Exhibits 7-A, 7-B, etc., for the Storstad. My Lord, I have ordered extra copies of these photographs for the entire court, and hope that we shall have them here by to-morrow night.
Lord Mersey:
That will do very well indeed.
Cross-examined by Mr. Aspinall:
1571. Now, Captain, do you often meet fog in the St. Lawrence river?
- I have not been travelling the St. Lawrence for several years until this spring, and I went one trip this spring previous to the last one.
1572. But have you met fog, while trading in the St. Lawrence?
- Five or six years ago I was here as mate on another steamer.
1573. And did you find it was a place where you often met with fog?
- I have several times met with fog in the St. Lawrence river.
1574. And do you give any instructions to your officers what they are to do if they are in charge of the ship, and you are not on the bridge when there is fog?
- They have instructions to call me immediately if the weather is getting hazy or foggy.
1575. They have instructions to call you immediately if it is getting even hazy?
- Yes.
1576. And that is a proper order to give, I suppose?
- Yes.
1577. In hazy weather or foggy weather you like to be on the bridge, Captain?
- Yes.
1578. In your opinion, Captain, was that order carried out on this occasion?
- Not to the full extent.
1579. Was it carried out to any extent?
- As far as I understand my ship was just getting into the fog the minute he called me.
1580. Looking backwards now, don’t you think the officer ought to have called you some ten to fifteen minutes before?
- I don’t think he was in fog ten to fifteen minutes previous. I don’t think he saw any fog ten or fifteen minutes previous.
Lord Mersey:
He said he did.
Witness:
He said he saw it over the land, but that is often seen on the land especially in the morning on account of the dampness on the land, but there would be none on the water.
By Mr. Aspinall:
1581. Are you quite satisfied with his having called you when he did?
- I should have wished to have been called before.. . although I don’t think it would have made any difference.
5182. Well now, when you did come up, it was about half a minute before this collision took place?
- About that, I can’t say exactly.
1583. About thirty seconds before the collision?
- About that, I can’t say. Time seems rather long when things like that are going to happen.
1584. At any rate it was a very short time?
- Yes.
1585. And up to that time no one had seen fit to reverse the engines of the Storstad?
- I don’t think they considered it to be necessary.
158G. Possibly not, but they had not in fact, had they?
- No.
1587. You came up from below, and when you got up I have no doubt you found you were then in thick fog?
- We were in fog when I got up.
1588. Thick?
- It was very thick, but I have seen thicker.
1589. Possibly, but it was very thick?
- Yes.
1590. So thick that when you saw the lights of the Empress they were how far off?
- That is what I cannot tell exactly, but I said a ship length and a half or two ship lengths.
1591. You say you have seen worse fog, but it was thick?
- It was thick, yes.
1592. And the first thing you did when you came on deck and I have no doubt properly . . . . was to go and reverse the engines?
- The first thing I did.
1593. Although you didn’t even know when you got there that the vessel was in that vicinity?
- I don’t think when I got up, until I saw the vessel
1594. (Interrupting) But the first thing you did was to set your engines full speed astern?
- Yes.
1595. Didn’t you think it should have been done by the officer before?
- I don’t think as long as the officer saw his red light on our port side.
1596. But it was the first thing you did, although you did not see the vessel?
- When I saw that vessel crossing my bow.
1597. At any rate, that is the first thing you did, ordered your engines full speed astern?
By Lord Mersey:
1598. If it had been done this calamity would not have occurred?
- If any one had thought the other ship was crossing our bow they would have done it.
By Sir Adolphe Routhier:
1599. If it had been done what would have been the consequence?
- In this case, the consequence might have been that there would have been no collision.
By Mr. Aspinall:
1600. You have told us that in this half minute you also had an opportunity of looking over the side to see if your vessel was moving?
- That was just the minute I got out of my bunk.
1601. (Interrupting) If you will pardon me, Captain, I think you anticipated what I had in my mind, I had not completed my question?
- I apologize.
1602. What did you think I was going to ask you?
- If I was looking over the bridge.
1603. I tell you what occurred to my mind, that in this very short space of time you had the opportunity to reverse the engines, to look over the side, to see if you were already stopped, and you had an opportunity to see the compass to see if you were all right?
- You will pardon me, I don’t think I said that.
1604. Did you not? I don’t want to mislead you?
- I said the minute I got out of the door of my cabin I went right close to the rail like this here, and the ship is about eight to twelve feet above the water there, and I can’t help seeing the water.
1605. And very often we can’t help seeing the water, but we don’t look at it?
- I didn’t specially, either.
1606. You didn’t look at it specially, either?
- No.
1607. I have no doubt you look over the side of the ship often?
- I don’t stop to look over the side to look at the water.
1608. Then may we dismiss this then, and say that you did not look over the side and say “my ship is stopped?”
- I saw the water, and at the minute I was called I heard the two whistles, and I knew the ship should be stopped.
1609. Now, what about this peeping into the binnacle, did you have a look there?
- I got to the binnacle just the minute I saw the other ship.
1610. And you have also told us you put her full speed astern?
- I did.
1611. It is very important to your case that you should be stopped, isn’t it?
- She might have been stopped, but I don’t think it is very important?
1612. Isn’t it?
- I don’t think so.
1613. And it is very important you should not be swinging under any helm, that is very important?
- She should not be swinging.
1614. That is very important to your case?
- Yes.
1615. Do you think you really had these opportunities of taking observation of these things?
- I think I had an opportunity of getting to the middle of the bridge to see the compass. That is a thing I generally do.
1616. When you came up your state of mind was this: You knew of no ship is [sic] that vicinity?
- I did not.
1617. And according to your story you heard two long blasts sounded on your whistle?
- Yes.
1618. That would tell you that your ship was stopped in the water?
- Yes.
1619. If that was your state of mind, why did you at once ring full speed astern?
- I did it when I saw the other ship.
1620. Oh, I beg your pardon, you waited until you saw it?
- That is what you might call no time.
1621. Now, the people on the bridge before you came up, if they had been attending to the whistles of the other ship, whatever they were, ought to have appreciated that she was getting very close?
- I don’t think he had any reason to believe she was getting close.
1622. What is the reason for whistling in a fog unless it is to give information as to where you are?
- This is a little different, because when you have seen the ship and know the course, and when you saw the ship alter her course and show port to port, and the ship has been seen a few moments before, I think it is different.
1623. I think what you mean to convey is this, that in view of the fact that before the fog shut her out the people on your ship had seen her, that therefore they were entitled to assume that she probably would pass safely port side to port side -
- Exactly.
1624. But if they had been using their ears they must have known that the ship was quite close?
- She couldn’t come too close as long as they had seen her port light a point and a half on our port bow.
1625. But they are not seeing anything now, she is shut out by the fog?
- But there is no reason to believe she is going to alter her course to cross our bow, after she had altered her course to avoid collision.
1626. At any rate, your view is that your officer was entitled to say, it is all right when she is going to pass us safely port to port, and I need not trouble about her, and that he need not call you, and need not reverse his engines?
- Exactly so.
1627. And if he likes I suppose he might say I will give her a little more room by porting my helm?
- That is what I don’t know, but he got the orders not to change the course in fog unless absolutely necessary.
1628. You gave him that order?
- It is a standing order.
1629. It is a very dangerous thing to do, to change your course in a fog?
- Yes, it is.
Lord Mersey:
What is that?
Mr. Aspinall:
My Lord, he says he has given his officer a standing order not to change his course in a fog unless absolutely necessary, and I asked him if it was a dangerous thing to do and he said: yes, it was.
1630. It is a constant cause of collisions, altering a course in a fog, is it not?
- A very dangerous thing.
By Lord Mersey:
1631. And this is what the Empress did?
- It seems like it.
1632. That is what you thought, was it?
- I thought so.
By Mr. Aspinall:
1633. What the Empress apparently did was this: having ported and got you red to red, then for no reason that you can suggest, she starboarded - except possibly she may have starboarded to get further from the land - but if the man on the bridge of the Empress had remembered what he had seen shortly before, that you were on his port bow, that would be a very risky thing to do, wouldn’t it?
- I think so.
1634. I agree with you. Now, having done that, what the Empress further does is this, if her story be true, she blows two long blasts to tell you she is stopped - your officer didn’t hear them - whereas, in fact, she was going ahead. That was a remarkable blunder for her to make, wasn’t it?
- I think it was.
1635. I agree. The last blunder, if your story be right, is this: that having some five or six minutes before blown you a three-blast signal, which is later repeated, which would signify she was going astern, yet in fact when she comes in sight she is going eight to ten knots. That is an extraordinary blunder to make, isn’t it?
- To my mind it is.
1636. I agree. And these are the three matters which you rely upon as charges of negligence against this vessel?
- What I rely upon is just what I have seen. I saw the hull and lights, three or four points on my port bow. That is all that I have seen.
1637. But Captain, you will agree with me that that is not quite all, because if you port your helm you may have her three or four points on your port bow?
- I saw the compass myself. I can’t tell to an eighth of a point or anything like that.
1638. But apart from the fact that you saw the compass, you might have brought her on her port bow by porting your helm? Of course, if your compass says you did not alter the course, I agree - but just for a moment let us leave out your look at the compass - if you have ported your helm that would bring her three points on your port bow, would it not?
- If the Storstad ported her helm that could bring her farther over on the port bow.
1639. These are the three main charges of negligence you have against the Empress, are they not - that seems to be the outcome of the evidence?
- That is so.
1640. And can you give an explanation which commends itself to you for any one of these blunders that you allege were made by the Empress?
- I cannot.
1641. Well, there is a matter that I do wish to challenge: you say you put your engines ahead, full ahead, for the purpose of keeping into the wound?
- Yes.
1642. Are you sure you gave that order?
- I am absolutely sure. I answered the hail from the Empress and gave the order.
1643. And how long did you go on?
- That was just moments.
1644. You did that for moments?
- Yes, she got out of the hole so very rapidly, there was hardly time to think about anything.
1645. Well, Captain, if you did it only for moments, do you think it ever had any effect on the ship?
- I don’t think it could have much effect on the ship.
1646. Then you think this momentary going ahead had practically no effect?
- No.
1647. When you hit her, had your stern-way any effect on your ship?
- I think it might have had a little. Of course, it takes a second to get the engines started.
1648. Your view is that when you struck her there was forward-way on the Empress, and your ship had stem-way upon her, that not only were your engines reversing astern, but your ship was slightly moving astern?
- No, I don’t believe that.
1649. You think your ship had still some headway upon her?
- I think so.
1650. Your case is, and I have no doubt you are right, that after the collision you did all you could to save life?
- I did everything possible.
1651. You say you did everything possible?
- I did.
Mr. Aspinall:
Speaking for myself, I do not wish to suggest the contrary.
By Mr. Newcombe:
1652. Just one question, Captain, my learned friend put it to you that when you came up on deck you were in thick fog and immediately reversed, and you assented to that?
- Yes.
1653. Do I understand that you reversed or gave the order to reverse before or after you saw the lights of the Empress?
- After I saw the lights.
1654. Was it on account of the fog or by reason of seeing the lights of the Empress that you gave the order to reverse?
- By reason of seeing the lights of the other ship.
1655. Are you able to give the number of people you took on board from the Empress?
- I am not. The pilot was there, and he was counting while they went over on to the Lady Evelyn.
1656. Who?
- The pilot was on board my ship at that time.
1657. The pilot?
- Yes.
1658. He was on board when you took the survivors off the boats?
- No, not when I took them on board my ship, but When they went on board the Lady Evelyn, the pilot came on board then I think.
1659. Oh, the pilot came out on the Lady Evelyn, and that was some time after the collision?
- Yes.
1160. And you say he knows how many?
- He counted 338, I think, but I was told that a lot of people went over besides what were counted.
1661. And he has a record of that?
- He has a record of the people he counted, yes.
By Mr. Gibsone:
1662. Captain Andersen, is the Storstad a British ship?
- She is a British built ship owned by Norwegian people.
1663. Is she marked with the Plimsoll mark?
- She is marked with the Norwegian Veritas mark which corresponds to the Plimsoll mark.
1664. When she is loaded, was she drawing more water than allowed by the Veritas mark?
- She was not. She was by a few inches at the time we left the dock at Sydney, on account of us having water on board to feed the boilers, but that was used up immediately we started and got out.
1665. Is she provided with steam steering gear, Captain?
- Yes, she is.
1666. Was that in working order at the time of the collision?
- It was in good order.
1667. Was it working - I mean, was it actually being worked at the time of this accident?
- I don’t understand.
By Lord Mersey:
1668. Were you making use of it?
- No, I was not, not until after the collision.
1669. Not until after the collision?
- No.
By Mr. Gibsone:
1670. So that the vessel at that time was being steered altogether by hand?
- She was steered all the time by steam.
1671. But the chief officer told us that having ordered the helm to be put to port and then afterwards hard-a-port, he instructed the third officer to help to put the helm over?
- Perhaps the third officer watched the compass, and did it, that is likely, but it doesn’t need more than one man to turn the helm.
1672. What I want to get at is if the vessel was then being steered by steam it could scarcely be said to be necessary to have the third officer help to put the vessel over?
- That is not necessary.
1673. From the fact that the vessel carried so much dead weight was she very hard to steer?
- She is not very hard to steer when she has way on her.
1674. The suggestion I make is to ask you whether she was not very hard to steer owing to the very great weight she was carrying, in other words if she was not really overloaded?
- She was not overloaded. We had 10,320 tons in her, and from that there is one per cent.
1675. What freeboard did you have?
- That I can’t exactly remember, but it would be four feet and some odd inches.
1676. So that her steering capacity was normal at the time?
- It was normal.
1677. What is the number of seamen on board her?
- The number of the crew, all told, is a fixed number of 33, but on this trip here we usually carried more, and we had 36 or 38.
1678. How many deckhands had you?
- We had 14 including officers.
1679. Apart from the officers, how many had you?
- 11 I think.
1680. Is eleven the right number?
- Yes.
1681. How many were on watch at the time this accident happened?
- Five.
1682. What were they?
- Two officers, a quartermaster, a lookout, and one sailor.
1683. How many men on the lookout?
- One.
1684. This sailor?
- Yes.
1685. Where was he placed?
- On the stem.
1686. On the forecastle head?
- Yes, on the forecastle head.
1687. Now with regard to the ship’s boat of the Empress that you referred to, can you tell us whether that was a collapsible boat or not?
- It was a collapsible boat as far as I could see, a big broad flat boat.
1688. From where you were standing were you in a position to tell how many members of the crew of that boat were passengers?
- No, I could not.
1689. My instructions are that I am to ask you if it is not the case that that boat is the collapsible boat which was filled with passengers entirely, with the exception of one member of the crew of the Empress, namely, a purser?
- No, this is not the boat.
1690. Are you quite sure of that?
- I am quite sure of that. My own crew went in that.
1691. I am not saying that your crew did not go into that too, but I am saying that when someone in the boat called out to you to furnish it with men, the only one of the crew of the Empress that was in that boat at all was one of the pursers?
- That I couldn’t say.
1692. My instructions are, and I wish to ask you to enlighten the Court on the point as to whether it is not a fact that that boat had on board no sailors or firemen or seamen of any kind except the purser or one of the pursers, and that it was this purser who called out to you to furnish that boat with a crew, which you did?
- There was no one asked me to furnish it with a crew, the boat I am referring to.
1693. Well you told us of a boat that you did furnish with a crew?
- Yes, one boat.
1694. And that was a collapsible boat?
- Yes.
1695. Isn’t that the one as far as you can know, that had on board only one of the pursers and no other members of the crew of the Empress?
- That is a thing I don’t know. When the boat came alongside, it landed just below my bridge, and I was looking right down on it, and there was some one with brass buttons, but I don’t know who they were, nor I don’t know how many.
1696. Did that happen with regard to any other collapsible boat?
- Not that I know of.
1697. So that there was only one collapsible boat on which you furnished a crew?
- That is what I saw myself.
1698. Was the Storstad surveyed at any Canadian port?
- The boilers were inspected at Sydney.
1699. Had the hull been inspected?
- The hull was not inspected.
1700. The hull was not inspected?
- No, we got permission to go on account of the inspector being somewhere else.
1701. And that is still to be done?
- Yes, it is to be done.
1702. When were the boilers inspected?
Lord Mersey:
What has all this to do with the case? What does it matter, Mr. Gibsone, whether the boilers were inspected or not?
Mr. Gibsone:
Well my Lord, that is the only question that I wish to ask, but I will withdraw it if your Lordship wishes.
Lord Mersey:
I don’t think it has any relevancy to the case.
(At this point the Commission rose and adjourned until half-past two of the clock in the afternoon.)