Senator SMITH.
What else was done at Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
We shipped coal, provisions, cargo was taken on board, passed the Board of Trade tests and survey.
Senator SMITH.
Did some British officer make the Board of Trade test?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The Southampton Board of Trade officer.
Senator SMITH.
What did he do?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He carried out the requisite tests required by the Board of Trade.
Senator SMITH.
Did you accompany him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes; I was with him part of the time.
Senator SMITH.
Who was this officer of the British Board of Trade?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Capt. Clark. [Maurice Clarke - Assistant Emigration Officer]
Senator SMITH.
He was an officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
He was purely a representative of the British Board of Trade, appointed by the British Board of Trade, with post at the port of Southampton; surveyor.
Senator SMITH.
He was assigned to Southampton?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How old a man was he?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 45.
Senator SMITH.
Of English nationality?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Had you ever seen him before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Frequently.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether he had any experience in marine service?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All surveyors, I understand, have been in command. I know he had for a number of years.
Senator SMITH.
What does that mean - that he had been "in command"?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In command of a British ship; captain.
Senator SMITH.
How much time did this officer spend on the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How much did he spend when he was with you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About four hours.
Senator SMITH.
Then did you turn him over to some other officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
To what other officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I think it was the first.
Senator SMITH.
What is his name?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Mr. Murdoch.
Senator SMITH.
Did he survive the Titanic survivor?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. He was chief then.
Senator SMITH.
He did not survive?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know whether any other officer of the ship accompanied this inspector during his stay on board?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That I could not say with certainty.
Senator SMITH.
What is your best judgment about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I should say the marine superintendent was with him the whole time.
Senator SMITH.
The marine superintendent?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Of the White Star Line, at Southampton.
Senator SMITH.
What is his name?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Capt. Steele.
Senator SMITH.
How old a man is he?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 50.
Senator SMITH.
Is he a commander?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Had you ever seen one of those ocean liners inspected by the British Board of Trade representative before?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Frequently.
Senator SMITH.
How thorough are they about it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Speaking of Capt. Clark, we call him a nuisance because he is so strict.
Senator SMITH.
Capt. Clark?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Is he the marine officer?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
That is the Board of Trade representative.
Senator SMITH.
In what respect is he a nuisance?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because he makes us fork out every detail.
Senator SMITH.
I should suppose you would be quite willing to do that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perfectly willing.
Senator SMITH.
Do you mean by that that he would call attention to the absence of tools, implements, and devices necessary for the ship's full equipment?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir. He would insist upon them all being absolutely brought out on deck every time.
Senator SMITH.
On what?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Everything that contributes to the ship's equipment.
Senator SMITH.
What would that consist of?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The whole of the ship's life-saving equipment.
Senator SMITH.
Life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Life preservers throughout the ship, all the boats turned out, uncovered, all the tanks examined, all the breakers examined, oars counted, boats turned out, rudders tried, all the davits tried - there was innumerable detail work.
Senator SMITH.
And the boats lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The boats lowered, put in the water, and pulled out, and brought back again, and if he was not satisfied, sent back again.
Senator SMITH.
And the ropes and chains tested?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When he inspected your ship, about where would he find these life preservers?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Lifebelts in every room, in every compartment, where, as we say, there was habitation, where a man could live.
Senator SMITH.
Would that include the steerage?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, undoubtedly; and the crew's quarters.
Senator SMITH.
In the steerage do they have rooms?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Are they equipped?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
With the same apparatus for the preservation of life with an emergency as the first and second cabins?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Identically the same.
Senator SMITH.
You used the term "life belt."
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would describe a lifebelt.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It consists of a series of pieces of cork - allow me to show you by illustration - a hole is cut in there (illustrating) for the head to go through and this falls over front and back, and there are tapes from the back then tied around the front. It is a new idea and very effective, because no one can make a mistake in putting it on.
Senator SMITH.
Is there cork on both sides?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On both sides.
Senator SMITH.
Are the arms free?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Free, absolutely.
Senator SMITH.
And when in the water does this adhere or extend?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It is tied to the body.
Senator SMITH.
It is tied to the body?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever had one of these on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Have you ever been into the sea with one of them?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
From the Titanic.
Senator SMITH.
In this recent collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
How long were you in the sea with a lifebelt on?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Between half an hour and an hour.
Senator SMITH.
What time did you leave the ship?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I didn't leave it.
Senator SMITH.
Did the ship leave you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you stay until the ship had departed entirely?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
I wish you would tell us whether the suction incidental to the sinking of this vessel was a great deterrent in making progress away from the boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was hardly noticeable.
Senator SMITH.
From what point on the vessel did you leave it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On top of the officers' quarters.
Senator SMITH.
And where were the officers' quarters?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Immediately abaft the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
Immediately abaft the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Abaft the wheelhouse.
Senator SMITH.
Was that pretty well toward the top of the vessel?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Were the lifeboats gone when you found yourself without any footing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
All except one.
Senator SMITH.
Where was that one?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In the tackles, trying to get it over.
Senator SMITH.
Did not the tackle work readily?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What delayed it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was the third boat over by the same tackles.
Senator SMITH.
The third boat over by the same tackles?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
From what deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
The sun deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The sun deck.
Senator SMITH.
How close were you to this lifeboat at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Fifteen feet
Senator SMITH.
Was it filled before starting to lower it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was not high enough to lower.
Senator SMITH.
Why?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was not high enough to lower. They were endeavoring to get it over the bulwarks, outboard; swinging it; getting it over the bulwarks. When it was over the bulwarks, then it would hang in the tackles, and until it hung in the tackles it was impossible to put anyone in it.
Senator SMITH.
How far below the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Above the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
How far above the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 4 feet 6 inches.
Senator SMITH.
And it was lowered to the boat deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It did not get over the bulwarks to be lowered.
Senator SMITH.
The last you saw of it?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who was managing this tackle?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The first officer, Mr. Murdoch.
Senator SMITH.
He lost his life?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see Mr. Ismay at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you, at any time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
How long before she sunk?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
At first, before we started to uncover the boats, when we started to uncover the boat.
Senator SMITH.
I did not quite catch that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
When we started to uncover the boats.
Senator SMITH.
How long was that after the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About 20 minutes.
Senator SMITH.
What was he doing?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Standing still.
Senator SMITH.
Dressed?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir; it was too dark.
Senator SMITH.
Was he talking to anyone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
He was alone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
On what deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
On the boat deck.
Senator SMITH.
Were there any other passengers on that deck?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I saw at that time.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see any there afterwards?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Plenty.
Senator SMITH.
Had the passengers the right to go on the deck from below?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Every right.
Senator SMITH.
There was no restraint at the staircase?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
None.
Senator SMITH.
Was that true as to the steerage?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The steerage have no right up there, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did they on that occasion?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, yes.
Senator SMITH.
There was no restraint?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, absolutely none.
Senator SMITH.
There must have been considerable confusion.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I noticed.
Senator SMITH.
Was everybody orderly?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Perfectly.
Senator SMITH.
How long did you see Mr. Ismay there alone?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As I passed.
Senator SMITH.
Where were you going at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I was attending to the boats, seeing the men distributed, having the boat covers stripped off.
Senator SMITH.
You say you were 15 feet from this last boat when it was lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
It was not lowered, sir. I was 15 feet from it when they were endeavoring to get it into the tackles.
Senator SMITH.
Did you go nearer to it than that.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Did not have the opportunity, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Why not?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
The ship went down.
Senator SMITH.
Was this boat ever lowered?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
It remained in the tackle?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
When did you see Mr. Ismay, with reference to the attempted lowering of this boat?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I saw Mr. Ismay, as I stated to you, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Only once?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And that was about 20 minutes after the collision?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
And there were no other passengers on that deck at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Not that I noticed. I should notice Mr. Ismay naturally more than I should notice passengers.
Senator SMITH.
Why?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Because I know him.
Senator SMITH.
How long have you known him?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Since I have been in the company.
Senator SMITH.
Are you quite well acquainted with the officers of this company?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I naturally know them by sight.
Senator SMITH.
Does he know you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Oh, he knew me; yes.
Senator SMITH.
Did he speak to you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Who was he with at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No one.
Senator SMITH.
Neither spoke to the other?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did he see you?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir. I don't know whether he recognized me.
Senator SMITH.
Do you know where the captain was at that time?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you see him on the bridge?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Previous to that I had seen him on the bridge.
Senator SMITH.
How long before that?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
About three minutes after the impact.
Senator SMITH.
Did he leave the bridge or did he remain there and leave your point of occupation?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I left.
Senator SMITH.
You left?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where did you go?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Back to my berth.
Senator SMITH.
What for?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
There was no call for me to be on deck.
Senator SMITH.
No call, or no cause?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
As far as I could see, neither call nor cause.
Senator SMITH.
You mean from the moment of the impact?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you believe the boat was in danger?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
You felt that it was not a serious accident?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I did not think it was a serious accident
Senator SMITH.
What was the force of the impact?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
A slight jar and a grinding sound.
Senator SMITH.
From front or side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Well, naturally I should think it was in front, whether I could tell or not.
Senator SMITH.
You could not tell exactly?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Was there a noise?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Very little.
Senator SMITH.
Very little?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Very little.
Senator SMITH.
Did you go back to your room under the impression that the boat had not been injured?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Didn't you tell Mr. Ismay that that night?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
I had not seen Mr. Ismay then.
Senator SMITH.
Did you tell him that afterwards?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Really, I could not say, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Where were you when the impact occurred?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
In my berth.
Senator SMITH.
Asleep?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir, I was just getting off asleep.
Senator SMITH.
You arose?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Yes, sir.
Senator SMITH.
Did you dress yourself?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
No, sir.
Senator SMITH.
What did you put on, if anything?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Nothing.
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