British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 14
Testimony of George E. Turnbull, cont.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Can you tell me on which page of the notes is the statement of what this message was.
16172. (The Solicitor-General.) Yes. It is opened in general terms by the Attorney-General at the very bottom of page 12 and at the top of page 13. That is the affidavit on which we opened. You will see that is what the Attorney-General said. (Handing the same to Sir Robert Finlay.) (To the witness.) What is the procès-verbal you have from the "Baltic"?
- "Sunday, April 14th, 11.55 a.m., sent two to M.G.Y." That means two messages to the "Titanic."
16173. That is 11.55 a.m.?
- Yes, New York time.
16174. Have you a record in the procès-verbal an hour later, 12.55, of a message being received from the "Titanic"?
- Yes, I have. "12.55 p.m., one from M.G.Y."
16175. Now are you able to trace the message that is sent by the "Baltic" to the "Titanic"?
- Yes.
16176. I think you have it there?
- I have it here. "From s.s. 'Baltic,' April 14th, to Captain Smith, 'Titanic,' sent 11.52 a.m." You will notice there are three minutes difference. That is unimportant. "Captain Smith, 'Titanic.' Have had moderate variable winds and clear fine weather since leaving. Greek steamer 'Athenai' reports passing icebergs and large quantities of field ice today in lat. 41º 51' N., long. 49º 52 'W. Last night we spoke German oil-tank steamer 'Deutschland,' Stettin to Philadelphia, not under control, short of coal, lat. 40° 42' N. long. 55° 11' W. Wishes to be reported to New York and other steamers. Wish you and 'Titanic' all success.
- Commander."
16177. (The Solicitor-General.) Your Lordship will notice there that that is a new ice -message. It gives the position, 41º 51' N., by 49º 52' W. I will have it plotted. (To the witness.) Have you a copy of the reply from the Captain of the "Titanic"?
- I have.
16178. Have you the reply there?
- Yes: "14th April. 'Baltic' Office. Received from 'Titanic' 12.55 p.m. To Commander 'Baltic.' Thanks for your message and good wishes; had fine weather since leaving.
- Smith."
16179. (The Commissioner.) What is the time of that?
- 12.55 p.m.
16180. (The Solicitor-General.) Are those both New York times?
- Both New York times.
The Solicitor-General:
My Lord, I will have it exactly marked. Your Lordship will find, I think, that that is the closest of all.
16181. (Sir Robert Finlay - To the witness.) Will you let me see that message?
- Which? the received or sent?
16182. The sent.
- Yes. (Handing the same to the learned Counsel.)
The Commissioner:
This is not disputed?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes; this is the first we have heard of this message.
The Commissioner:
Of this particular one, yes; but do you dispute the receipt of it.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I do not know anything about it; I have not heard of it till this moment.
The Commissioner:
You see how it stands. A record from the "Baltic's" procès-verbal of the despatch of a message, and then the production, as I understand, of the message sent an hour afterwards from the "Titanic" acknowledging the receipt.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes.
16183. (The Commissioner - To the witness.) Have you the telegram from the "Titanic"
acknowledging the receipt of it?
- I have.
The Commissioner:
Let me see it. (The witness handed the telegram to the Commissioner.) You had better look at this, Sir Robert.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, My Lord. (The witness handed the telegram to the learned Counsel.)
The Commissioner:
Just tell me if you are satisfied that that telegram refers to the telegram of 11.55 a.m.?
Sir Robert Finlay:
I see it purports to be sent off at 12.55 p.m.
The Commissioner:
No, a.m., surely.
Sir Robert Finlay:
12.55 p.m., My Lord.
The Solicitor-General:
After midday it would be p.m.
The Commissioner:
Of course.
16184. (Sir Robert Finlay - To the witness.) What time would that be?
- New York time.
16185. By the ship's time that would be two hours later?
- Something like that.
The Solicitor-General:
I have marked the place now, My Lord, as best I can.
The Commissioner:
The Admiral has been good enough to mark it for me here.
The Solicitor-General:
As I make it out, it is practically on the southern track very slightly, of course, to the east of the 50th meridian.
The Commissioner:
Yes, and, if anything, slightly to the north.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes.
The Solicitor-General:
A shade to the northward, perhaps.
Sir Robert Finlay:
We had better have the other.
The Commissioner:
It appears to me to be all in order.
Sir Robert Finlay:
That also appears to me, I may say at once.
The Solicitor-General:
Our information about the other message is in an affidavit that has been sworn by the Captain of the "Baltic," and I am not sure that this gentleman has been able to trace it. Perhaps I had better show your Lordship what the information is. It is in paragraphs 2 and 3 of that document. (Handing the same to the Commissioner.) It does not profess to be quoting textually, your Lordship sees.
The Commissioner:
Have you seen this, Sir Robert?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes; my friend has just shown it to me. That is the affidavit?
The Commissioner:
Yes. "The 'Baltic' sailed from New York on Thursday, 11th April, for Liverpool, and on Sunday, the 14th April, reports were received by wireless from a number of steamships of having passed ice and bergs in positions varying from 49º 9' W. longitude, to 50º 20' W. on the outward southern track."
That is nothing so far because it is not connected with the "Titanic." "These ice reports were in the ordinary course sent out by the operator to all other ships with wireless, including the 'Titanic.' The messages were sent off shortly before noon, New York time, on 14th April. Our operator received an acknowledgment from the 'Titanic' about 1 p.m. on the same day." That would be this telegram.
The Solicitor-General:
It looks like it, My Lord, certainly.
The Commissioner:
This telegram of 12.55 p.m.?
The Solicitor-General:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
I should think it probably refers to the telegram of 11.55 a.m. to the "Titanic," but it only connects the "Titanic" with one telegram, not with several.
The Solicitor-General:
Your Lordship sees the affidavit there does not profess to be quoting textually the message.
The Commissioner:
No, it does not.
The Solicitor-General:
It is stating it indirectly, and it is possible therefore that he is referring to this message which is now produced.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I thought there was another message, My Lord, because if your Lordship looks at page 13 the passage my friend was good enough to refer me to, the Attorney-General in answer to your Lordship gives this. Perhaps I had better begin the second column on page 12. It is all connected together.
The Solicitor-General:
I think you will find he is relying on the affidavit.
Sir Robert Finlay:
"(The Commissioner.) Yes, it is more than 12 hours before the casualty. (The Attorney-General.) Yes, it would make a difference. The 'Baltic' (I have given you the ' Caronia,' and I am dealing now with documents, so that I can be precise.) passed on reports of ice by wireless telegraphy to the 'Titanic' from 49° 9' W. to 50° 20' W."
The Commissioner:
That is taken from the affidavit.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes. "(The Commissioner.) When did she pass on those reports? (The Attorney-General.) They were passed on and acknowledged by the 'Titanic' at 1 p.m., New York time, on the same day. (The Commissioner.) At 1 p.m.? (The Attorney-General.) Yes, quite roughly, I think it would work out to about 3 p.m. by the 'Titanic.'" That is the difference between New York time and the ship's time. "(The Commissioner.) About 3 p.m. by the 'Titanic's' time? (The Attorney-General.) Yes, that is it; and, My Lord, while I am upon that, having given your Lordship 49° 9' W. longitude to 50º 20' W., I ought to have added on the outward southern track.' That was the message.
That is the track to which I called your attention. (The Commissioner.) I want to see if I have got the 'Baltic's' figures right - 49º 9' W., 50º 20' W? (The Attorney-General.) Yes. (The Commissioner.) I notice that the ice was between those points? (The Attorney-General.) Yes, on the outward southern track. Now if your Lordship would look just below the blue cross marked there, you will see the outward southern track is that line which you see immediately underneath."
The Solicitor-General:
I think it is clear the -Attorney-General was referring to this very affidavit.
The Commissioner:
No doubt.
The Attorney-General:
That is all I had.
The Commissioner:
If the information sent to the "Titanic" and received by the "Titanic" by the Captain consisted of nothing but this one "Baltic" telegram we have heard read, it would indicate that ice had been seen at a particular spot slightly to the north of the outward southern track.
The Solicitor-General:
It is "icebergs and a large quantity of field ice today" at that place.
The Commissioner:
At that spot, yes, whereas, as I understood it previously, the telegrams, in the plural, which were supposed to have been sent on, indicated ice along a considerable line.
The Solicitor-General:
That is right.
The Commissioner:
That line being ascertained by reference to a number of telegrams which were supposed to have been sent to the "Titanic," but which may not have been sent to the "Titanic."
16186. (The Solicitor-General.) I agree, that seems to be how it stands. (To the witness.) As I follow, Mr. Turnbull, looking at the procès-verbal of the "Baltic," you do not find about this time any other messages about ice sent by the "Baltic" to the "Titanic"?
- No.
The Solicitor-General:
Now we go on to the "Californian."
Sir Robert Finlay:
I think what my friend the Solicitor-General says is probably perfectly accurate, but this affidavit, with which the Attorney-General was dealing in opening, is a sort of free translation of that message, which we have not got in extenso. There is nothing in the message about the outward southern track. The message gives the latitude.
The Commissioner:
Yes, but the affidavit says "reports" - in the plural - "were received
from a number of steamships of having passed ice." That is paragraph 2, and these ice reports were sent out to the "Titanic."
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
Now that does not seem accurate.
Sir Robert Finlay:
It is not accurate, My Lord; it is a very free translation.
The Solicitor-General:
The American evidence shows that the Captain of the "Baltic" is right in saying that he received more messages than one.
The Commissioner:
That is no doubt right. I do not doubt that at all. That is his affidavit, but that they were sent on to the "Titanic" in the sense of being received by the "Titanic," does not seem to be accurate.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I think the inaccuracy is in the second paragraph as to what reports were sent to the "Titanic"; we now know what the message to the "Titanic" was it gives the particular latitude.
The Commissioner:
It is only that one message indicating ice at a particular spot.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Exactly.
The Solicitor-General:
That is right. I think we shall find when Mr. Bride gives evidence that he will say he heard another message being sent to the "Baltic", he overheard it. I have his evidence in America before me.
The Commissioner:
From the "Titanic"?
The Solicitor-General:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
I will wait for that.
16187. (The Solicitor-General.) I think you will find that is what he will say, a message was being sent from another ship to the "Baltic" and he overheard it. (To the witness.) Now we will go on to the next one, the "Californian." Here again we have evidence in the shorthand note, the evidence is the evidence of the operator evans, and it is to be found at page 201. He says that he was sending to the "Antillian," and that he was told by the "Titanic" operator that the "Titanic" operator had overheard it. (To the witness.) Have you got the procès-verbal there showing he was sending to the "Antillian"?
- Yes.
16188. What is the entry?
- The entry is under the 14th April, "5.35 p.m. in New York time, sent M.S.G. to M.J.L.," M.J.L. is the "Antillian."
16189. What is the time?
- 5.35 p.m. in New York time.
16190. That would be about 7.30 ship's time?
- I should say so.
16191. That is what he says. You have the procès-verbal before you?
- Yes.
16192. Can you tell me whether you have an entry in the procès-verbal immediately before at 5.20 showing that the "Californian" was in communication with the "Titanic"?
- Yes. "5.20 p.m. New York time, exchanged trs M.G.Y. nil."
16193. What is "Tr"?
- "Tr" is the telegram which is exchanged between two ships when they first enter into contact to announce to each other what telegraphic traffic they have for each other.
16194. (The Commissioner.) What does that mean?
- What telegrams they have.
16195. (The Solicitor-General.) Nowadays they send messages like they do from two offices. When you find in the procès-verbal the entry that you exchanged trs. with a ship, does that indicate that the ship and your own ship are in communication?
- Certainly.
16196. Now have the message that was sent to the "Antillian" at 5.35?
- I have it here.
16197. Just read it out?
- "'Californian' Office. Sent 5.35 p.m., 14th April. by c. F. Evans" - that is the operator - "addressed to Captain 'Antillian,' 6.30 p.m. apparent ship's time; lat. 42º 3' N., long. 49º 9' W. Three large bergs five miles to southward of us. Regards.
- Signed Lord"
16198. My Lord, that corresponds with the answer given at Question 8943, on page 201.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Not textually. He read it out, "Apparent ship's time."
The Solicitor-General:
My strong recollection is that that is what the witness said.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I am only reading from the print of the evidence.
16199. (The Attorney-General.) It is "A.T.S.," which is "Apparent time ship."
The Witness:
I should have read it. "A.T.S."
16200. That is "apparent time ship"?
- Yes.
The Solicitor-General:
Your Lordship will see that is the ordinary abbreviation, A.T.S.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Be it so. There is a semi-colon put in the print, which obscures the meaning.
The Commissioner:
The semi-colon ought to come after "ship."
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, if it comes at all.
16201. (The Solicitor-General.) I daresay your Lordship will remember, when Mr. Evans was in the box, he explained that when he said 6.30 apparent ship's time, that did not indicate that the message was being sent at that time, but it indicated that icebergs had been seen at that time. That is the "Antillian." Now let us turn to the "Mesaba"; that is the Atlantic Transport Line?
- Yes.
Sir Robert Finlay:
This, we say, we did not receive.
The Commissioner:
The "Californian" you did receive?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes.
16202. (The Solicitor-General.) Was she east-bound or west-bound?
- Bound to Europe.
16203. (The Commissioner.) With reference to what was said, the marconi operator overheard the "Californian"; whether they received it upon the bridge, I do not know.
16204. (The Solicitor-General.) Yes. Do not answer until you are sure. You have your records there?
- Yes.
16205. She was in advance of the "Titanic"; she was nearer America than the "Titanic"?
- Yes.
The Commissioner:
Are you disputing the receipt by the Captain of the "Titanic" of the "Californian's" message?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Of the "Californian's" message to the "Antillian"?
The Commissioner:
Yes, and your becoming acquainted with it?
Sir Robert Finlay:
I think Mr. Bride will say that he did take that to the bridge.
The Commissioner:
There is nothing as far as I know in writing to show that this message, the "Californian's" message, was received by Captain Smith.
Sir Robert Finlay:
No.
The Commissioner:
There is nothing in writing.
Sir Robert Finlay:
No, My Lord.
The Commissioner:
If Mr. Bride says so, it will be his statement.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I understand my friends are going to call him presently, and I understand he will say that, but I am not able to say at the present moment.
16206. (The Solicitor-General.) You say the "Mesaba" was west-bound and in advance of the "Titanic"?
- Yes.
16207. Now have you got your procès-verbal , and will you do the thing in the same way?
- Under date of "Sunday, April 14th, 7.50 p.m. New York time, exchanged trs. s.s. 'Titanic bound West. Sent ice report, condition of communication good."
16208. (The Solicitor-General.) I should like your Lordship to see that entry, because that is the critical one. (To the witness.) Have you marked it?
- Yes, there is a red cross opposite it. (Passing up the document.)
16209. I think you told me the entry "Exchanged trs." means "Exchanged time rushes." It means the two ships have got into communication?
- Yes, they have just got into communication.
16210. (The Commissioner.) What does "G" mean, "Condition G"?
- Good.
16211. What was good?
- Communication.
16212. At 7.50. Does this word, which is contracted, Mean examined or what?
- "Exchanged."
16213. And then there is something which I cannot read?
- "Trs."
16214. What are those?
- Those are what we call "Time rushes."
16215. And what are time rushes?
- They are the messages which each ship exchanges with another as soon as it enters into communication with that ship to inform each other of the telegrams which one has for the other, and to check their times.
16216. "Time rushes, s.s. 'Titanic,' bound west, sent ice reports.
- M.G.Y." Those are the letters?
- Those are the call letters.
16217. For the "Titanic"?
- Yes.
16218. "Sent ice report." Now is there anything in this procès-verbal to show what ice report was sent?
16219. (The Solicitor-General.) My Lord, I am going to do that now; I am dealing with it in exactly the same order as the others. (To the witness.) Now have you got the message at 7.50 p.m., which is recorded as being sent from the "Mesaba" to the "Titanic"?
- I have.
16220. Just read out what you have got on that piece of paper, and then you must hand it up. Sir Robert will want to see it?
- "'Mesaba' office, 14th April, 1912. Office sent to, M.G.Y."
16221. Does that mean to the "Titanic"?
- That means "Titanic." "Time sent, 7.50 p.m. By whom sent, S.H.A." Those are the initials of the operator. "From 'Mesaba' to 'Titanic' and all east-bound ships. Ice report in latitude 42 N. to 41° 25' N., longitude 49 W. to longitude 50° 30' W. Saw much heavy pack ice, and great number large icebergs. Also field ice. Weather good, clear."
16222. Have you any record on that same piece of paper as to whether there was any reply?
- At the bottom of the form there appears this entry by the operator.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Have you got the reply?
16223. (The Solicitor-General.) It is on the same piece of paper I want you to see?
- This reply was not from the Captain; this reply was from the operator of the "Titanic." "Reply received, thanks."
16224. Is there anything added?
- There is another remark added, yes.
16225. That is what I want?
- "Reply received. Thanks. Sent this to about ten other ships as well; names in P.V."
16226. What does "P.V." stand for?
- It means his procès-verbal
16227. Is that initialled?
- It is initialled.
16228. What are the initials?
- "S.H.A."
16229. That is the same initials as those you had before?
- Yes.
16230. Who is the gentleman?
- His name is Adams, the operator of the "Mesaba."
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