British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 9
Testimony of Joseph T. Wheat, cont.
11016. (The Solicitor-General.) You came up those stairs?
- Yes.
11017. Give us an idea in this way; you must have met something?
- Yes.
11018. Did it go over the tops of your boots?
- Not over the tops of my boots; over my instep.
The Commissioner:
Where was he when the water came over his boots?
The Solicitor-General:
He mounts up the stairs down which the water is coming.
The Commissioner:
Yes.
11019. (The Solicitor-General - To the witness.) Is that where the water reached up to your instep?
- Yes.
11020. (The Commissioner.) Not up the stairs?
- Coming up the stairs, yes.
11021. That is a good deal more than 1/2 of an inch; do you mean to say that the water on the stairs trickling down or coming down the stairs was so deep that it reached up to the top of your boots?
- No, I did not say that.
11022. I thought you said it came over your instep?
- It had run from the top of the stairs over the tops of my boots.
11023. (The Solicitor-General.) Do not use that word instep, because different people mean different things by it. Take the ordinary heel of an ordinary boot. You were probably wearing heels?
- Yes.
11024. Would it come to the top of the heel?
- About the top of the heel of my boot.
The Commissioner:
I am sorry to trouble you, but when you have finished asking questions, will you explain to me what you understand his evidence to mean, with a pointer on that plan.
The Solicitor-General:
Yes, My Lord; I will do my best. I think I can do it up to this point now, if your Lordship desires.
The Commissioner:
Well, it will assist me if you will do that, if you will take the pointer and point me out on the plan the locality of the watertight doors that were closed, and then show me in what direction he means to indicate the water was coming.
The Solicitor-General:
I see here marked on the plan "Squash Racquet," and your Lordship sees there is a stair. (Pointing to the plan on the wall.)
The Commissioner:
Tell me what deck you are pointing to.
11025. (The Solicitor-General.) I will. Your Lordship sees there is a stairway indicated by a number of ticks. I am now putting the end of this pointer on the level of the Orlop deck. As I follow the witness, that is the lowest deck to which he went in his description. He says he saw water rising in this compartment at that point up those stairs. (To the witness.) Is that right?
- Yes.
The Commissioner:
Climbing up those stairs?
11026. (The Solicitor-General.) Mounting up those stairs. He had came to it, so he says, from his room, by coming down a couple of flights of stairs down here. He says the water was rising as he stood there, and that it reached as far as G deck. (To the witness.) Is that right?
- Yes.
The Solicitor-General:
That is to say it ran up to that point while he was standing there?
The Commissioner:
What deck is that?
The Solicitor-General:
That is G deck.
The Commissioner:
That is the deck above the Orlop deck?
The Solicitor-General:
Yes. Then he says he went on his own motion aft in order to shut two watertight doors which are on F deck, that is to say, which shut off this space. The watertight doors, as I follow, are somewhere back here.
The Commissioner:
Which is the bulkhead in which they are placed?
The Solicitor-General:
I think it is this bulkhead, and I think it will be found, if my friends are following on this plan, that that is the place.
11027. (The Commissioner - To the witness.) Can you follow this plan? I cannot see where the bulkheads are.
- Yes, I think it will be there. (The position was indicated to the witness.)
11028. (The Solicitor-General.) There is the first class entrance immediately after?
- Yes, it is just forward of the first class entrance.
11029. Then he came back along F deck to the point where the pointer is now, and the thing he shuts is a thing which in this diagram is marked with a thick black line. He shuts two of them, and then he says after that there were these orders given.
The Commissioner:
Where does that bulkhead stop?
The Solicitor-General:
That is the top of it, so that the floor above him, as your Lordship sees, is E deck, and the floor on which he would be standing when he shuts the doors is F deck.
The Commissioner:
Yes.
The Solicitor-General:
Then he says after some orders he returned to his own quarters, which are the other side of the ship; and when he got to his own quarters, which are on F deck, he found that water was falling down the stairway, which led from E deck to F deck. Perhaps the witness will tell me whereabouts the stairway would be.
The Commissioner:
I do not quite understand where that water came from that was coming down stairs. How did it get up?
The Solicitor-General:
It was coming from E deck. What I understand the witness to have said is, that he thinks that if the water, which he had observed mounting from the Orlop deck to G deck, continued to mount up that staircase there up to F deck, and then up to E deck, there would be nothing to prevent it running along E deck and falling down the stairway which led to F deck.
The Commissioner:
I see. Then the forward part of the ship, forward of the bulkhead in which he closed the watertight doors, Must have been full of water at that time. Is that so, Sir John?
11030. (The Solicitor-General - To the witness.) Would that be so, do you think?
- There is another partition between the mail room and the bulkheads that I closed. That has no bulkhead doors at all; it is just plain.
The Commissioner:
Take d bulkhead, Marked on the f deck. If you trace that d bulkhead upwards towards the port side of the ship, you come to a watertight door.
The Solicitor-General:
Yes, My Lord.
The Commissioner:
Was that shut or open?
The Solicitor-General:
I do not know at all. I do not know whether the witness can tell.
The Commissioner:
If that was shut, then, as I understand, water would not get into the space between e and F on that deck; but if it was open, then the water would come into both those spaces.
The Solicitor-General:
Might I just ask Mr. Wheat to look at the plan?
11031. (The Commissioner.) Then it would come into the space between d and E, and then mount and get on to E deck and begin trickling down the stairs? (To the witness.) Had she ever a list to starboard, as far as you know?
- No, My Lord.
The Attorney-General:
There has been no evidence of that yet.
The Commissioner:
Because I do not understand the alleyway on the port side being dry.
11032. (The Solicitor-General.) I might ask him this to clear it up. (To the witness.) You have evidently the design of the thing in your head. As far as you know, supposing that water began to rise in that stairway which you spoke of near the mail room, is there anything to stop it from rising from the Orlop deck to G, from G to F, and from f to E?
- No.
11033. It is merely a question of whether there is sufficient water to rise?
- Yes.
11034. Is there any watertight door that could be shut to prevent that?
- No.
11035. So, as far as the stairway is concerned, it is open for the water to rise. Is there anything which would prevent water, if it got into the stairway on F deck from running aft on the f deck?
- Yes, there is an iron bulkhead there.
11036. (The Commissioner.) Is that the bulkhead in which there are no doors?
- Yes. We have no doors. I do not know whether there are any doors down below, but there are none in our department.
11037. (The Solicitor-General.) None on F deck?
- No.
11038. So that it is a continuous partition at that point?
- Yes, as far as our deck is concerned.
The Commissioner:
I do not know, Sir Robert, whether you could explain it.
Sir Robert Finlay:
I understand that what the witness suggests is that the water rose forward of this bulkhead d till it got to the level of E deck. It could not get through this bulkhead, therefore it rose vertically till it got to E deck, and then ran along E deck and then down.
The Commissioner:
I understand that, but does not it follow from that, that all the part of the ship which was forward of the point where the water was rising was full of water?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Not necessarily all, My Lord; it is highly probable.
The Commissioner:
I do not see what part of it could not be full.
Sir Robert Finlay:
What I mean is, if the water was coming in forward of this d bulkhead, getting into that division, it would rise.
The Commissioner:
As I suggest?
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, and then over the top of the bulkhead, along E, and down the staircase.
The Commissioner:
And that is what I understand him to mean.
Sir Robert Finlay:
That is my impression.
The Commissioner:
Whether it is right or not, I do not know. I think you are right in a way. I mean, it does not follow that the forward compartments were necessarily full, although no doubt they would be if the vessel was holed at that part, Sir.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Exactly.
The Commissioner:
If she had had a tear right along, opening those parts, those parts would be full as well.
Sir Robert Finlay:
They would be full on their own account, so to speak. I think the evidence does show she was ripped up; at least it suggests so far, that there was a rip up on the starboard side for a very considerable way.
The Commissioner:
Yes, and right from forward, along.
Sir Robert Finlay:
From forward. The same thing would in all probability have been going on in the forward compartments.
The Commissioner:
Yes.
Sir Robert Finlay:
What the witness describes would have taken place even if this compartment only had been open.
The Commissioner:
Yes, I think I understand it now.
11039. (The Solicitor-General - To the witness.) Have you a copy of the plan before you?
- Yes.
11040. Look at the plan of F deck for a moment, will you?
- Yes.
11041. Will you look where "squash racquet court" is marked?
- Yes.
11042. Now, I think the stairway which you are talking about is a stairway on the starboard side of that squash racquet court?
- Yes, the starboard side.
11043. Now, what I would like you to explain, if you will, is this: Imagine yourself on F deck, standing on F deck at that point. Is there any watertight door at that level?
- No.
11044. At that place?
- No.
11045. It is a solid bulkhead without any openings in it?
- There is an opening for the stairway to go down.
11046. Apart from the stairway?
- There is nothing else.
11047. Just look at the plan for a moment, because I cannot help seeing in that line, just a little on the port side "W.T.D."
The Commissioner:
That is the one I was asking about.
11048. (The Solicitor-General.) That is what I want to follow - on the port side of the squash racquet court?
- That would be in the third class; either the third class or one of the fidleys.
11049. It is marked in our plan as being between the squash racquet court and the place marked "Linen"?
- There is no bulkhead door down the squash racquet court.
11050. You know all about it, and we want to know about it?
- There is no bulkhead door there.
11051. "W.T.D." is marked here (Pointing on the plan.)?
- That must be the other side of the bulkhead. There is nothing down there.
The Solicitor-General:
Sir Robert has suggested to me on the large plan what appears to be the true explanation. I am still speaking of bulkhead D, as shown on the plan of deck F. If one carries one's eye along that bulkhead, from starboard to port side, it runs for a distance straight across the ship, and then it takes a right-angled turn and runs a little to the rear of the squash racquet court.
The Commissioner:
Yes, then it turns back again.
The Solicitor-General:
It turns back again, and it turns back again under the stairs.
The Commissioner:
It does.
The Solicitor-General:
That is to say, those stairs indicated close to the word "Squash" are really stairs which start from the f level and mount up to the E level, so that the bulkhead runs under those stairs at the side.
Sir Robert Finlay:
At the side?
The Solicitor-General:
At the side and then under them.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Immediately aft of the stairs.
The Solicitor-General:
Immediately aft of them, and then takes a turn under them when those stairs have reached the next deck.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, that is to say, on the port side of the stairs?
The Solicitor-General:
Then, still tracing out the bulkhead, immediately following that there is a watertight door shown, which Sir Robert thinks must have been shut, and I gather it is a watertight door which would normally separate the third class from the first class?
The Witness:
No.
The Commissioner:
You notice there is a watertight door also in the bulkhead that starts from C?
The Solicitor-General:
There is, My Lord, in the same line, according to this plan.
The Commissioner:
Therefore you have a watertight door which, if opened, would have let the water into the space between C and D, and you have another watertight door which if opened would have let the water into the space between d and E?
The Solicitor-General:
Yes. Where this theory breaks down is, that the witness does not take the view that there is a watertight door there.
The Witness:
Do you mean down by the squash racquet court?
11052. Yes?
- There is no watertight door there.
The Commissioner:
Which is right, the witness or the plan?
11053. (The Solicitor-General.) We can only take the witness for the moment. (To the witness.) Supposing you were coming up by those stairs from G deck round the side of the squash racquet court, Mounting up; you know those stairs which are immediately on the after side of the squash racquet court, you see them there on the plan on F?
- Yes.
11054. Supposing that you had got on F deck there, not up the stairs but on F deck - let me show you where I mean (Indicating the position on the small plan.)
Sir Robert Finlay:
My Lord, we have a larger plan here. I do not know whether your Lordship would like to look at it.
The Commissioner:
I think I should. (Sir Robert Finlay handed the plan and explained it to the Commissioner.)
The Attorney-General:
Is your Lordship satisfied?
The Commissioner:
I think I know where the bulkhead door is. There is a door in the bulkhead at the bottom of the ship. There is none in the Orlop deck. The bulkhead as it rises into the Orlop deck has no doorway. When the bulkhead rises on to G deck it has no doorway in it at all; but when it rises on to F deck it has this doorway which you find in the plan in the d bulkhead by the linen room.
The Attorney-General:
Between the linen room and the squash racquet court on the port side.
The Commissioner:
Yes. Now that is the first open passage that there is in that bulkhead, after of course you leave the automatic door in the bottom of the ship. The door at the bottom of the ship would have been closed when the button was pressed?
The Attorney-General:
Certainly.
The Commissioner:
And you would have had then, with this particular bulkhead, a complete wall from the bottom of the ship, until you come to that watertight door which is by the linen closet?
The Attorney-General:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
And if that was shut - we do not know yet whether it was shut or not - we would have to get the water over the top of the bulkhead?
Sir Robert Finlay:
That is it.
The Commissioner:
In order that the water should find its way to the place where he saw it trickling down?
The Attorney-General:
That is right.
11055. (The Solicitor-General - To the witness.) You were a first class steward?
- Yes.
11056. You had nothing to do with the third class?
- No.
11057. Forward of this bulkhead, My Lord has been speaking about, it is third class, is it not, on the port side?
- On A deck?
11058. On F deck?
- I do not know of any door.
11059. I am not asking about any door. I say forward of the bulkhead it is third class?
- Yes.
11060. Then you know nothing about that?
- No.
11061. Your business is aft of that?
- Yes.
11062. Whether there is a watertight door there or not, was there at that time when you were there any opening there?
- No.
11063. You are sure of that?
- Yes.
The Solicitor-General:
I think your Lordship will find the watertight door shut from the third class side.
The Commissioner:
If there was no opening there it means the door was shut.
11064. (The Solicitor-General.) Yes, it is the same thing. (To the witness.) When you got up on to E deck did you see anything of any third class passengers?
- There were a few there, five or six, I should say.
11065. Where were they coming from?
- They were making from forward aft.
11066. Were they men?
- Yes.
11067. Were they carrying their baggage with them?
- They were carrying and dragging boxes and bags.
11068. Were they making their way aft towards the top deck?
- Towards aft.
11069. Tell us shortly where you went?
- From E deck up on to B deck up the service stairs.
11070. Tell us what happened there?
- There I met Mr. Latimer on the b deck.
11071. He is your chief - the Chief Steward?
- Yes, and he had his big coat on with a lifebelt over it and I told him to take his big coat off and put the lifebelt under it or his big coat would be no use to him. Then I went along forward and up the forward stairway up on to the boat deck and there I saw they were just filling No. 9 boat, starboard.
The Solicitor-General:
I do not think we have heard anything about No. 9.
The Commissioner:
I think this will be a convenient time to adjourn.
(The Witness withdrew.)
