British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 6
Testimony of Frederick Scott, cont.
The Attorney-General:
I should say from the evidence it came after. I should think that the first thing that happened was the three bells, and the telephone, and then the order from the bridge, "Hard-a-starboard," immediately after the order on the telephone. It is difficult to understand otherwise, because they did get the warning, although it is very shortly before, but immediately the order is given, and then came the shock, so far as we have had evidence from the bridge.
Mr. Laing:
I accept that; that seems to agree.
The Attorney-General:
I am only dealing with the evidence, as far as it has gone.
Mr. Laing:
So am I.
The Attorney-General:
It is very difficult, I quite agree with my learned friend.
The Commissioner:
I understand what you are saying, Mr. Laing.
5824. (Mr. Laing - To the Witness.) Did you ever see the dial of this telegraph at all, or are you only going by the rings?
- No, I saw it.
5825. Up to the time when you left the engine room, had you seen any water below at all?
- No.
5826. Neither in the engine room nor any of the compartments which you saw?
- No.
5827. Did you meet any water in the alleyway as you went up?
- No.
5828. None at all?
- No.
5829. Up to the last?
- No.
5830. Did I catch you to say that you saw the lights of a number of boats belonging to the "Titanic" when you were on board?
- Yes, on the starboard side well away from the ship.
5831. How many engineers do you think there were?
- Eight I saw.
5832. Officer engineers, I mean?
- About eight I saw on deck.
5833. There are 36 I am told, all told?
- I think so.
5834. So when you said you saw all the engineers you must have meant all the engineers that you knew?
- Yes.
5835. You saw only eight of them?
- I saw eight of them.
5836. Out of 36?
- Yes.
The Attorney-General:
Your Lordship will find this dealt with at page 38 [41]- I mean the question which you asked before about the proper order of the signals and orders. It is summarised at Question 993.
The Commissioner:
Yes, the question beginning "You told us what happened."
The Attorney-General:
Yes. "First of all the signal of the three bells" - I think I am summarising what he said - "then the telephone message, then it was repeated to the First Officer, 'Iceberg right ahead'" - that is because another Officer received the telephone message - "then the First Officer went to the telegraph to give an order to the engine room, and gave you the order 'hard-a-starboard'? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) At any rate, up to his going to the telegraph as I follow you, there was no change of speed?- (A.) No, Sir. (Q.) What that order was you do not know? - (A.) No, Sir. (Q.) Then 'hard-a-starboard' and you immediately put up your helm? - (A.) Hard-a-starboard. (Q.) Right over? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) What is it, 35 degrees? - (A.) Forty degrees. (Q.) Then you got the helm right over? - (A.) Right over, Sir."
The Commissioner:
"Then she comes round two points and then strikes."
The Attorney-General:
Yes. "Is that right? - (A.) The vessel veered" - round to port - "veered off two points" was his expression. It is in the Quartermaster's evidence.
Re-examined by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
5837. There are two matters I want you to help us upon, if you can. You told us the time when you got the order all the watertight doors were open. That was at quarter to one?
- Yes.
5838. But I do not think you told us what time it was when you went up on deck?
- When we left the engine room?
5839. Yes.
- Twenty past one.
The Attorney-General:
I do not think your Lordship has that?
Mr. Laing:
Yes, I think so.
The Attorney-General:
My friend says he thinks you have that.
The Witness:
That was the time we left the engine room. Then we did not go straight up to the boat deck then.
5840. Can you give us any idea how long it was between that 20 past one and your getting on to the boat deck?
- We had to go and get the lifebelts after that. From the time I got the lifebelts and all do you mean?
5841. Yes. You left the engine room at 1.20; you got eventually to the boat deck, and I want to know about what time it was you got on the boat deck?
- About twenty to two I think it was when I got on to the boat deck.
5842. How long after you got to the boat deck was it till you got on to the davits and down the falls?
- About a quarter of an hour, between a quarter of an hour and twenty minutes.
5843. That would bring it to about five minutes to two?
- Yes.
The Commissioner:
When he dropped into the water.
The Attorney-General:
Yes. And we know it was about quarter-past two when she sank. That helps us now to see what was happening during this time, from 11.40 onwards.
The Witness:
I think that was the only boat that took any of them out of the water. We pulled in between six and eight, I think it was, after she sank.
5844. Yes, you are quite right, we have the evidence about it. I am not only asking you about it because we have had it from other Witnesses. But you are quite right; they did do it. Now there is one other matter, correct me if I am wrong, but I think you said you went to the third class cabin to get the lifebelts?
- Yes.
5845. That must have been some time between 20 minutes past one and 20 minutes to two?
- Yes.
5846. When you got there did you see any passengers?
- I never noticed any.
5847. Did you go to the third class cabin aft or forward?
- Aft. The lifebelts are kept in a locker in an alleyway.
5848. I would rather like to know what you did; I think it would be of some assistance to know what you did when you went to this third class compartment. Did you have to pass along the cabins of the third class?
- Yes, you have to go right along the cabins.
5849. Is it on the same floor as the alleyway?
- Yes.
5850. Your engine room opens upon the alleyway?
- Yes.
5851. That is deck E. I think it is rather important to see where he went, my Lord. (To the Witness.) Then you passed along aft?
- Yes.
5852. And along that alleyway are there third class cabins both to port and starboard of you?
- I do not know about that. As we are going aft there are cabins on the right-hand side, that would be the port side.
5853. It may be that there are not cabins on the starboard side of that alleyway?
- That would be the port side, as I am walking aft; that is the right hand side of me.
5854. That we have got clear. If you pass along aft along that alleyway, on your right hand side, as you are walking aft, and therefore on the port side of the vessel, there are the third class cabins?
- Yes.
5855. Are there any on your left hand side as you are walking?
- I cannot say.
5856. I do not make out there are?
- I think that is the post office and hatchways.
5857. Yes; that is quite right. Now I want to know how far aft you went in order to get to this locker where the lifebelts were kept?
- Not very far.
5858. Have you any idea how far?
- No, I have not an idea of the distance.
5859. Do you remember, as you were walking aft, was the locker on your right hand side or on your left?
- I cannot say, because we had to go up a little alleyway to it and turn round again. It was the first time I had ever been there. There are several alleyways there.
5860. (The Commissioner.) The alleyways down to the third class berths?
- Yes.
5861. (The Attorney-General.) Did you go up them?
- No, I went straight along on the same alleyway.
5862. Just give us an idea; how many of the entrances to the berths do you think you passed?
- About four alleyways, I think.
The Attorney-General:
Your Lordship sees how the cabins run.
The Commissioner:
I do. Did he pass the end of four alleyways?
5863. (The Attorney-General.) Yes, he passed the end of four alleyways. The third class passengers would have to go down these alleyways to go to their berths?
- Yes.
5864. You did not go down there?
- No, I passed right along.
5865 And you passed three or four of these?
- Yes, I think it is about three or four.
5866. That is the part of the third class where the women and children were?
- Yes.
5867. Did you see any women and children along there at all?
- No.
5868. Either where you passed or looking further aft or further forward?
- No, I never saw anybody.
5869. (The Commissioner.) Were the doors of the cabins open?
- I cannot say.
5870. You did not go down the alley?
- No.
The Commissioner:
Will you ask him if the watertight doors are automatic there?
5871. (The Attorney-General.) I am going to ask some questions about that. I am going to ask some general questions about that, because we have not had it yet, and he may be able to help us. (To the Witness.) With regard to the watertight doors, you have told us about those which close down automatically from the bridge, on to the inner bottom?
- Yes, with electricity.
5872. That is right - from the electric switch. What I want to know is this; there are a number of other watertight doors, are there not?
- I have not seen any, only the doors which they lower down from the bridge.
5873. Do you only know those 12?
- Yes, that is all. There are other doors up in the working alleyways which they push to; they have about 12 catches on them.
5874. It is those we want to know about. There are other watertight doors?
- Yes, those up in the alleyways.
5875. That is what I want to know something about. Those are not doors which close from the bridge automatically?
- No, they swing like an ordinary door.
5876. How are they closed?
- They have about 12 catches on them like handles and catches you turn over. You turn them either way.
The Commissioner:
He says they swing.
The Witness:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
They slide, do they not?
5877. (The Attorney-General.) Some slide and some are on hinges. I do not know which these are?
- Those are all on hinges which they have there.
The Attorney-General:
I am told by those who ought to know better that they are sliding doors.
The Commissioner:
Well, I saw some of them, and those I saw were sliding doors.
5878. (The Attorney-General.) So I understand. (To the Witness.) At any rate they are doors which close comparatively easily by hand. Is that it?
- Yes.
5879. You were speaking just now about the alleyways, were you not?
- Yes.
5880. Are you sure that watertight doors were there?
- Well, I do not know whether they are watertight doors or not. I know there are doors.
The Commissioner:
When he speaks of alleyways, they are passages between the berths of the third class passengers, but they are small things of no consequence, and he did not go between any of them, but he went along the broad alleyway in which there are several watertight doors. Will you look at this plan which I have (handing the same to the Attorney-General.) You will see where I have marked a red line.
The Attorney-General:
That is right. That is where he walked.
The Commissioner:
That is the passage he walked along.
The Attorney-General:
Quite right.
The Commissioner:
And going aft he would have small alleyways on his right going between the berths of the third class passengers?
The Attorney-General:
Quite right.
The Commissioner:
Now, if you look along the broad alleyway he walked along you will find several watertight doors marked.
The Attorney-General:
I do.
The Commissioner:
And it is those I want to know something about.
The Attorney-General:
I agree. Let me ask him to follow it along. Your Lordship is asking about these two through which he passed?
The Commissioner:
Are there only two? I thought there were three.
The Attorney-General:
I only see two.
The Commissioner:
I want to know if they were open or shut. Those are not automatic?
5881. (The Attorney-General.) Your Lordship is quite right; it depends upon where you start from. If you start from the place where he came up there would be three. It had been marked red, and I thought that was the passage. There would be three from his coming up from his engine room if he passes along, assuming that he is going to the point, which I think is the one he indicates, which I am going to ask him about. (To the Witness.) Do you remember, as you passed along aft, coming to a locker which is amidships where the lifebelts were kept?
- I cannot say, because we had to go up two alleyways to get to the locker. We had to go past the staircase where the third class go on deck. We had to go by that and up a little alleyway and then turn to our left again.
5882. That is right?
5883. (The Commissioner.) Had you ever been there before?
- No.
The Attorney-General:
That is exactly what he would do to get to the place I am indicating, if your Lordship will look. I will mark it, if I may.
The Commissioner:
Yes, certainly.
The Attorney-General:
I put a blue mark round the locker. As the Witness has described it, it quite accurately represents what he would do to get to that spot. He would pass a staircase there on the right, then he goes along in a straight line to the left and goes along another alleyway, and there he would get to the locker. That is quite right.
5884. (The Commissioner.) Did you go down any of the small alleyways between the berths of the third class passengers?
- No, Sir.
5885. You passed the mouth of several of them?
- Yes, about three or four, I think.
5886. (The Attorney-General.) Do you know the Chief Steward's room?
- Yes.
5887. Was that just opposite the place where you got the lifebelts?
- No, that is right in the alleyway, just against the staircase. We had to go round here and up another alleyway and turn round on the left to get to this locker. It is the place we used to go and get the stamps in the "Olympic," and I think this place was the same.
5888. There would be various offices on your left, as you are walking aft to get these stamps that you told us about and things of that sort?
- Yes, the post office is just there on the left. We had to go past the third class..
The Attorney-General:
Now, I want you to tell us about these watertight doors.
The Commissioner:
Before you leave that, you say that the Chief Third class Steward's bunk, or room, or whatever it is is just close to the locker where the lifebelts were?
The Attorney-General:
I tried to get something about it from him, but I doubt whether he knows it.
The Commissioner:
He had never been in this part of the ship before in his life.
The Attorney-General:
It was in answer to a question I put to him about that that he said that was further forward that he passed that to get to the place he used to get the stamps in. Evidently what he means is that there are some offices that he would pass on the left as he walked aft, and he was referring to one of those.
The Commissioner:
Yes, because he told us he had never been in this part of the ship before in his life.
5889. (The Attorney-General.) In point of fact there is the Second class Purser's office, which would be very likely the office he was referring to. (To the Witness.) Now, I want to ask you about these watertight doors in the alleyway. Were they open?
- Yes, they were open.
5890. That is to say you walked through these three doors, and, so far as you know, was there any order given to close any watertight doors?
- I cannot say up there.
5891. As far as you know, of course, the watertight doors closed down below would be closed from above, from the bridge, that we know?
- Yes, Sir, but them in the alleyway they were open, and they were open at the time that I left the alleyway.
The Commissioner:
It is obvious they were open. He could not have got along otherwise.
The Attorney-General:
That is obvious, of course. I think we shall call evidence showing that everything was open there.
Mr. Edwards:
There is one point, my Lord, in which there seems to be a little disparity between this Witness and Grainger. This Witness says that he was taken into boat 14. Grainger's evidence was that it was boat 4. It may save confusion hereafter if the point is at once cleared up.
The Commissioner:
Yes.
The Witness:
No. 4 boat I think it was.
5892. What was No. 4 boat?
- The boat I got into.
5893. (The Solicitor-General.) How do you know?
- I asked a sailor after I got on the "Carpathia" what the numbers of the boats were.
5894. The other boats had gone?
- This boat came back.
5895. (The Commissioner.) I thought I might have made a mistake about the number. I thought when he came up on the boat deck there were only two boats left?
- Yes.
The Commissioner:
And I thought they were Nos. 14 and 16.
The Attorney-General:
Yes, 14 and 16.
The Witness:
They were loaded away, Sir. We never got into those two boats.
The Commissioner:
Were the two boats that were left Nos.. 14 and 16?
5896. (The Attorney-General.) I think we had better get it quite clear. (To the Witness.) When you got to the port side there were two boats?
- Two boats left.
5897. As I understand from all you said, the aftermost boats on the port side?
- Yes.
5898. You did not get into either of those?
- No.
5899. Those were just going away?
- No.
5900. What happened?
- I saw them rush to the ship's side from there. I went over to the starboard side again, and then we come back again.
5901. You came back again to the starboard side?
- We came back from the starboard side to the port side again.
5902. When you came back to the starboard side there was nothing there, and you went back again to the port side?
- Yes.
5903. The boats had gone away?
- Yes.
5904. And then you found someone who called out that he wanted two more men?
- Yes, right.
5905. And then you climbed up the davits and got down?
- Yes, and that boat was No. 4.
5906. (The Commissioner.) Then you were pulled into No. 4 boat?
- Yes.
The Commissioner:
Yes, that is quite right, and that agrees with Grainger's evidence. Mr. Edwards was quite right to call attention to it; it has saved confusion.
(The witness withdrew.)
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