British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 2, cont.
Mr. Laing:
Yes, we think there may be, but at present we are not certain about it.
The Commissioner:
Very well.
The Attorney-General:
I quite appreciate what my learned friend says. I am sure my learned friend will agree with the way in which I put the blue cross. If the figures we have given are correct the spot indicated in the chart is correct, and if the figures we have given of the "Baltic" just now are correct what your Lordship said is also correct. My Lord, I cannot think that there can be any question between us as to the spot at which she struck the iceberg, because her own wireless messages to the "Baltic" asking for assistance were from 41° 46' N., and 50° 14' W., which is practically the spot. Her message was "Sinking; want immediate assistance." Of course, that is out of its order in the story, but I only wanted to tell your Lordship that to show there cannot be any question between us as to the spot at which we say she struck?
The Commissioner:
Now that you say comes to the blue spot?
The Attorney-General:
Yes. I have now in my hands the "Caronia's" receipt of the message from the "Titanic" - what I gave just now was the "Baltic." This is the "Caronia": "Titanic requires immediate assistance. Been in collision with iceberg. Position: latitude 41° 46' N., longitude 50° 14' W."
The Commissioner:
You told me 15.
The Attorney-General:
Yes, I did - that is the spot that has been indicated at the same time. It is a difference of a mile; it is the same thing. Now, my Lord, according to the evidence which we shall call before you, after the receipt of these warnings, so far as we know, no reduction of the speed of 21 knots was made, and she travelled on during the afternoon, and when it became dark on this starry night, with no moon, she was going at a speed of 21 knots when she struck the iceberg. Of course that is a factor the importance of which your Lordship will appreciate, and which I desire to indicate at the earliest moment, so that any explanation that may be available should be given to your Lordship, and also, if there is any denial of the fact, that my friend may have notice that that is a point which I place before the Court as one of extreme importance as affecting this Inquiry.
Now, my Lord, the story of what happened immediately before the "Titanic" struck the iceberg is certainly somewhat difficult to give, and I do not propose to be in any way precise about it. I cannot be from the material we have at present, and your Lordship will have to hear the evidence upon it. What I have given now, and the evidence upon which I comment, is evidence which rests really upon documents, except as to speed, upon which we will call evidence which will, I think, place the matter beyond question as far as I understand what has taken place. Now, my Lord, there is also some further evidence. Undoubtedly during that day, Sunday, the 14th April, the temperature was extremely cold. It had been cold during the voyage; it became colder much on this 14th, and as they proceeded on their way till before the happening of the casualty the cold increased. My submission to the Court is that that would be an indication to those responsible for the navigation of the "Titanic."
The Commissioner:
Are you talking of the temperature of the air or of the water?
The Attorney-General:
I am talking of both, my Lord. The cold increased very considerably, and was an indication to those who were responsible for the navigation and were accustomed to the voyages that they were in very close proximity to ice. That is my submission, that this increasing cold, and particularly of the water, was an indication to them of this proximity, more especially when taken in conjunction with the fact that the "Titanic" was then approaching the zone in respect of which she had received the warnings that there were growlers, icebergs, and fields of ice. My Lord, a little before she struck (I cannot give at present more indication than that) the man on the look-out in the crow's nest sounded three bells. My Lord, the signal of three bells we understand to be something ahead. The practice apparently is to sound this signal and then to telephone from the crow's nest, I imagine to the bridge, but I am going to leave the matter with that indication, because I am not able to speak precisely enough of what happened at that moment; we will wait till the evidence is a little more sifted. Then at that point Mr. Murdoch, who was the Chief Officer of the vessel and was in charge, was on the bridge.
The Commissioner:
Mr. Attorney, when you say the Chief Officer, I want to know whether you mean the First Officer?
The Attorney-General:
I was just asking about that, my Lord. I thought he was the Chief Officer, but I am told he was the First Officer. There has been some confusion about it, but I understand he was the First Officer.
My Lord, Captain Smith, who was the Captain of the "Titanic," was, at the actual time of striking, below, not on the bridge; he had gone down to his berth. He was a very experienced Captain in the employment of the White Star Line, and had, in fact, been in charge of the "Olympic" right up to the time of the "Titanic's" first voyage. He took charge of the "Titanic" because, as one would gather, the White Star Line had complete confidence in his skill and judgment. He had been many years in their employment and in charge of vessels belonging to the White Star Line; and I believe I am right in saying that, except for the occurrence between the "Hawke" and the "Olympic," there had never been any collision in any vessel which he had commanded; and, as your Lordship knows, the matter of the "Olympic" and "Hawke" is now still sub judice in the Court of Appeal - litigation has resulted.
The Commissioner:
What was the judgment?
The Attorney-General:
The judgment was that owners were excused - were not liable, on account of compulsory pilotage, but that the "Hawke" was not to blame; the "Olympic" was. That is the judgment.
Mr. Laing:
No fault was found with the Master.
The Commissioner:
The "Olympic" was in charge of a pilot?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, my Lord; not in charge of Captain Smith, but of a pilot. That matter is still the subject of litigation. That is how it stands at the present moment.
The Commissioner:
Was there any blame imputed by the judgment to Captain Smith?
The Attorney-General:
Not by the judgment, my Lord.
Now my Lord, after this report of the three bells signal, which was given by the look-out man, it is very difficult to know whether anything was done immediately before the casualty. I confess that I am not able to make out, from the evidence that I have got at present, that anything at all was done, nor am I able to state to the Court how long an interval elapsed between the signal and the striking of the "Titanic" on the berg. We must leave it. I cannot attempt to say with any great precision what happened.
The Commissioner:
Can you tell me, Mr. Attorney, how many of the men in charge would be apprised of these messages in the ordinary course of things?
The Attorney-General:
Well, two Officers, I think, would know. I cannot say more. Your Lordship sees, of course, that everybody no doubt is in this difficulty, that the persons chiefly concerned have succumbed in this disaster, and we have got to pick up, as best we can from those who survived, what happened; and, of course, from those who survived, as your Lordship will appreciate, we have not yet got statements.
The Commissioner:
What I was asking was this - perhaps I ought to ask Mr. Laing - what in the ordinary course would be done with these messages? Would they be communicated to the Officers of the ship, and, if so, to how many of them?
Mr. Laing:
I am sorry I cannot answer, my Lord - certainly to the Captain.
The Commissioner:
Of course, and I presume Murdoch would have received them. They would have been communicated to him.
Mr. Laing:
I should imagine so, but at present I do not know.
The Commissioner:
You do not know what the practice is?
Mr. Laing:
I will try and find out, my Lord.
The Attorney-General:
I have no doubt he would have received them, because, according to some of the evidence which we have even at present, it will be shown that the look-out man had special instructions to look out for ice; but, so far as I know on the evidence, nothing further was done by the "Titanic" after receipt of the warnings than to give this notice to the look-out man to keep a special eye open for ice.
The Commissioner:
Is the look-out man alive?
The Attorney-General:
We are going to call one, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
Is this man you speak about, who rang the three bells, alive?
The Attorney-General:
I am not sure that he is, my Lord. We shall find out, of course, as we proceed, but he is not one of those who came home in the "Lapland." We have someone who heard it, but not the man who actually rang it.
Now, my Lord, the shock, so far as one knows from the evidence, taking it generally, does not appear to have been a severe one; that is, according to the accounts of the survivors. I am not saying there are not some who take a different view; but (I am only dealing with the evidence so far as I am able to at present), speaking generally, it does not appear to have been as severe perhaps as one would have imagined. However, your Lordship will hear all about that. Apparently, part of the starboard side of the vessel below the waterline was struck, and possibly also (although this is to a certain extent speculation or deduction from what happened afterwards) part of the bottom of the vessel was ripped up. Now, almost immediately after this had happened, water was observed to be pouring into the fore hatch.
My Lord, I see there is a reference in a newspaper report, and I am right in saying that the man who struck the three bells is alive, although we have not got a proof from him yet; he is in America.
Now, my Lord, from this moment again it is very difficult to ascertain what actually happened between the striking (which I place at 11.40 on the 14th April) and about two o'clock on the 15th in the morning when she sank. According to one of our Witnesses, who will be called before you, at a very early stage, the carpenter went to ascertain what water she was making, and he reported that she had made seven feet of water within a very few minutes; in the fore part - exactly in what part I cannot say -
The Commissioner:
Is the carpenter alive?
The Attorney-General:
No, my Lord, a number of Witnesses state that pieces of ice were observed immediately after she struck on the fore-well deck.
The Commissioner:
Is anyone able to indicate with the pointer where the fore-well deck is?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, my Lord. It is just abaft the foremast; it is easily seen.
Now, my Lord, I am not sure that I have stated yet that almost immediately after she struck, Captain Smith came on the bridge - which is reconstituting, as best we can from the evidence, what happened - and I gather, from the orders that were given by him very shortly after he came on to the bridge, that he must have realised that the matter was serious; but, according to the information which we have got from the survivors, at any rate at present, there does not appear to have been any panic on board the vessel. Orders, generally speaking, were carried out in an orderly and a regular fashion. The men were told to go to their stations in their boats. I understand that each man had his station in the boat, and that there was a list, or there were lists in the boats, indicating the stations which the men were to take in the boats if the orders came, so that when an order came for men to go to their stations in the boats it was not necessary to tell him to what particular place he should go or what particular boat. The boats were numbered, and a man would know he had to go to boat No. 12 and take a certain place there. I cannot say from the evidence which will be called before your Lordship that the men seemed to know very well what their places in the boats were, notwithstanding these precautions which had been taken by the owners and the Captain, but still there appears to have been very little confusion. Orders were given for the boats to be lowered - to be got ready first; and also orders were given that the women and children were to come first; and orders were also given; the men were all called up - those who were not on watch and had gone below were called up, as well as the passengers - and all were told to take lifebelts and put them on. Now I am not going at the present moment, particularly as it is not necessary, into further detail as to what happened at that time, because it is very difficult to say. I gather from the evidence (I mean now, of course, from the evidence which I know I can call before you) that the women and children were placed in the boats; that all the boats were lowered; that is the 16; the 14 lifeboats and the two wooden cutters; and that also the four collapsible boats were either were put into the sea or attempts were made to launch them. I am not sure what happened with regard to the four.
The Commissioner:
There were sixteen wooden boats?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, my Lord, and four collapsible boats. Of the 16, as your Lordship knows, 14 were lifeboats, but it seems clear from the evidence that the boats did not carry the full complement they were capable of carrying. With regard to the boats, undoubtedly although it may be that one or two carried as many as they possibly could, yet, speaking generally, they do not seem to have taken as many women and children or persons on board as could have been taken. There is some evidence undoubtedly that some wives refused to leave, declining to go without their husbands. There is also considerable evidence of husbands insisting upon their wives and children going in accordance with the orders that were given.
Now the boats were ordered to remain in the neighbourhood of the vessel, and did apparently for some time. Here, again, perhaps it is not remarkable, but it is impossible to get anything like a reliable estimate of time from those who survived, but there they were, in the boats, at distances, so far as I am able to judge, speaking generally, of 100 to 200 yards, in some cases more, from the "Titanic," standing by her, which they continued to do until just a little before, or at about, two o'clock in the morning, when undoubtedly she went down by the head. She began to go down by the head, and, according to some accounts, buckled, and then broke in two, and the fore part of the vessel went down into the water and the stern part stood right up for some time (that there is a great deal of evidence about), and eventually that disappeared too. According to some statements there was an explosion before she broke in two, several explosions some Witnesses say. According to others, she plunged head down into the water with her stern standing right up, and was in that position for some few minutes (it is impossible, of course, to gauge the time accurately), and then disappeared. Which is the correct version of those three statements, of course it is not possible to say, certainly at the present moment, but there is undoubtedly evidence that as she began to settle, apparently by the head, there came a moment at which there was a great rush aft, which seems to indicate it was quite clear that something was taking place in the fore part of the vessel, apart altogether from the sinking, which caused persons to rush to the afterpart of the vessel. That somewhat suggests that there had been some breaking of the vessel which caused them to make this rush; but it might be because it also became apparent that she was going down by the bow. Whatever the reason was, undoubtedly a large number of persons who were left on board the vessel rushed aft and remained there until the vessel went down.
The Commissioner:
Is there any evidence as to the length of time between this rush aft and the final settlement of the afterpart of the ship?
The Attorney-General:
No, my Lord, there is not. When I say no evidence, I mean nothing so far which is reliable.
The Commissioner:
I suppose it would only be a question of a few minutes?
The Attorney-General:
That is all, my Lord. According to one Witness, I think it was put at ten minutes; others say a few minutes, and no one knows better than your Lordship how unreliable estimates of time must be necessarily at moments such as those.
My Lord, there ends the melancholy and lamentable story of the "Titanic." The boats were subsequently picked up by the "Carpathia," which, in conjunction, or which alike with a number of other steamers, received wireless messages from the "Titanic" for assistance, and informing everybody who could receive wireless messages that she was sinking, and stating the position, latitude and longitude, which I gave to your Lordship a little while ago, in one of the messages sent to the "Caronia."
Now, my Lord, these wireless messages had been sent continually, not only to the vessels which I have indicated, but to a number of others, including, as I have just stated, the "Carpathia"; your Lordship will hear the account of those. I am not going to trouble you at the present moment by going into detail with regard to them.
My Lord, I think that one thing must emerge from this Inquiry, and that is that if it had not been for that marvel of science, wireless telegraphy, I doubt very much if anyone would have been picked up in these boats, or at least whether as many would have been saved as were actually saved. That is a matter your Lordship will consider when you hear all the evidence with regard to it.
Now, my Lord, I can give your Lordship figures which, I think, are of some importance. I am going to analyse the figures a little directly, because I do think that they are of considerable importance in the case, and that your Lordship should have them as far as we are able to give them. The total of passengers and crew on the vessel, if your Lordship will take them, were 2,206. The figures originally given were 2,208, but I will deal with them at 2,206. My Lord, there were 703 of the 2,206 saved, leaving 1,503 who succumbed in this disaster. Now, my Lord, of the 2,206 the percentage saved is 32, that is the 703 of the 2,206. I think it is useful to split up the 2,206 into men, women, and children. There were 1,662 men - I am dealing now with passengers and crew - carried in the vessel; there were 315 saved all told, which gives a percentage of 19. There were 439 women carried; 336 were saved.
The Commissioner:
What percentage is that?
The Attorney-General:
Giving a proportion of women saved of 77 percent. There were 105 children carried, of whom 52 were saved - 49 percent.
Now, my Lord, I propose to subdivide the figures again into passengers and crew, and the passengers into classes. There were altogether 322 first class passengers, and if it would save your Lordship trouble we will have the table copied for the use of your Lordship and the Assessors, but the figures I am going to give you are not very many. I think your Lordship will find it useful to have them in this detached way. There were 322 first class passengers; 173 men, 144 women, and five children. Of the 173 men, 58 were saved, giving a proportion of 34 percent. Of the 144 women carried 139 were saved, giving a proportion of 97 percent, of the women first class passengers saved. Of the five children carried, five were saved, giving a proportion of 100 percent. In the second class, there were 1,602 carried.
The Commissioner:
What was the total number?
The Attorney-General:
I beg your pardon, my Lord. I ought to have given that first, as I did in the other case; 277 were carried, 115 were saved, and the percentage was 42 percent.
The Commissioner:
You are giving men, women, and children now?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, the same as I did the others, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
No, you did not give me the others.
The Attorney-General:
I think so, my Lord. Yes, I began in the same way.
The Commissioner:
Three hundred and twenty-two is the total?
The Attorney-General:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
Then you divided them into 173 men, 144 women, and five children; but although I can work it out, you did not tell me what was the total percentage of the first class passengers saved.
The Attorney-General:
It was 34 percent.
The Commissioner:
34 percent of the men were saved.
The Attorney-General:
Your Lordship means the percentage of the total.
The Commissioner:
I thought you were going to give it in connection with the second class.
The Attorney-General:
Certainly. It is 63 percent, 322 carried, 202 saved, 63 percent. Then of the second class the percentage saved is 42 percent, 277 carried, 115 saved, 42 percent, 160 men were carried, 13 were saved, making a percentage of eight percent; 93 women were carried, 78 were saved, the percentage was 84; 24 children carried, 24 saved, percentage 100.
Now, my Lord, of third class passengers there were 709 carried, 176 saved, making a percentage of saved 25 percent. Of these 454 were men, of whom 55 were saved, giving a percentage of 12; 179 women were carried, 98 were saved, giving a percentage of 55; 76 children carried, 23 saved, percentage, 30. Taking the passengers, therefore, without the crew, there were 1,308 carried, 493 saved giving a percentage of 38. Now, my Lord, dealing with those in the same way, subdividing them: Of the 787 men carried, 126 were saved, giving a percentage of 16 percent. Of the 416 women carried, 315 were saved, percentage 76; of the 105 children carried, 52 were saved, giving a percentage of 49.
Now, my Lord, the only other figures are as to the crew, which are short. Eight hundred and ninety-eight were carried, 210 were saved, giving a percentage of 23. Of the 875 men carried 189 were saved, giving a percentage of 22. Of the 23 women carried, 21 were saved, with a proportion of 91 percent.
My Lord, the striking figures and figures which will no doubt engage the Court's attention during this Inquiry, are that 63 percent of the first class passengers were saved, 42 percent of the second class, and only 25 percent of the third class.
The Commissioner:
And 23 percent of the crew.
The Attorney-General:
And 23 percent of the crew. My Lord, one striking figure to which I would direct your Lordship's attention also is this: that taking the figures I have given you of the first class passengers, dealing with the women, and knowing as we do that some wives refused to go without their husbands, you will see that all except five were saved. If you assume that those five refused to leave their husbands the consequence is, that one must take it, that all the women in the first class either were saved or had the opportunity of being saved and refused to avail themselves of it. One fact, my Lord, which does stand out in these
series of figures which I have given to your Lordship is that of this very large number of men carried, of the passengers, only 126 were saved, giving the lowest percentage of any of the different classes to which I have referred. I mean taking the men of the first, second, and third classes.
Now, my Lord, it may be necessary, and I daresay it will be later, during the course of the case, to analyse those figures even a little more closely; but I do not suppose that there will be any dispute with regard to them, and I thought it was important that your Lordship should have them at the outset.
Now my Lord, that really ends the story so far as I propose to trouble your Lordship and the Court with it in opening. The salient points which occurs to me at the moment (I am dealing with it only upon such material as we have at the moment), to which no doubt your Lordship's consideration will be directed - are first the speed of the vessel after the warning; secondly, that the number of boats was not sufficient for the number of persons carried; and thirdly, the construction of the watertight doors, and the effect of their action, will be another matter which will engage your attention during the course of the case. My Lord, dealing with the speed and the warning, there are the points which I have already sufficiently indicated, not only of the wireless telegrams, but of the temperature and also of the look-out. With regard to the boats, your Lordship will also hear what the Rules and Regulations are. I think I am right in saying this, that the "Titanic" carried sufficient boats to comply with the Rules and Regulations of the Board of Trade under the Merchant Shipping Acts, and no complaint is to be made against the "Titanic" that she in any way did not comply with those conditions. Whether they are sufficient, in view particularly of the experience which we have now had, and to what extent, and in what direction those Rules and Regulations should be amended is a matter which, as I indicated to your Lordship yesterday, will be for your Lordship's serious consideration.
The Commissioner:
Have you, Mr. Attorney, obtained any figures as to the proportion of lifeboats carried by other lines?
The Attorney-General:
We propose to do that, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
By other lines I mean, of course, the German or French, or other lines. Do they carry a proportion of lifeboat accommodation in excess of that which was carried by the "Titanic."
The Attorney-General:
We are inquiring into that matter, my Lord, and will produce evidence. I would rather not answer the question until I am in a position to state more definitely what the facts are. We are making the Inquiry which will give the answer to your Lordship's question. I am not, as I stated just now, in a position to answer it at present.
My Lord, the Board of Trade Rules are made under the Merchant Shipping Act, under Section 427. I need not trouble your Lordship with the Section. It is the one which gives power to make Rules for providing life-saving appliances. In those Rules there is a table which is at page 17 of the print if your Lordship happens to have it. If not I will hand it up in due time. It is sufficient if I state to your Lordship what the effect is. It is only one figure that you need to look at.
The Commissioner:
I do not know whether I have it.
The Attorney-General:
No, my Lord, you have not got it. It was proposed to deal with all these Rules together, and, no doubt, that is the convenient form, but I thought your Lordship ought to have in the opening what undoubtedly is an important factor - what the Board of Trade Regulations are with regard to life-saving appliances. The only figure with which your Lordship need be troubled is this (it is at page 17): "The table referred to in the foregoing Rules, showing the minimum number of boats to be placed under davits and their minimum cubic contents. When the gross tonnage is 10,000 and upwards, the minimum number of boats to be used under davits, 16."
The Commissioner:
What was the tonnage of the "Titanic"?
The Attorney-General:
She had a registered tonnage of 21,831 and a gross tonnage of 46,328.
The Commissioner:
It does not matter what size over 10,000 tons a vessel may happen to be, 16 boats is the minimum number?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, my Lord, that is how it stands.
Now, my Lord, I propose at once to call the evidence of those who, as I indicated yesterday have returned in the "Lapland," although they do not properly come perhaps in the order in which we might have wished to call them.
The Commissioner:
What about tomorrow, Mr. Attorney.
The Attorney-General:
Well, my Lord, there is some difficulty. We cannot finish this class of Witness, I think, and in any event we have got to get material ready. I think it would be better if your Lordship would say you would resume on Tuesday; then we shall be prepared to go on daily.
The Commissioner:
You mean not to sit tomorrow?
The Attorney-General:
Yes.
The Commissioner:
One of my colleagues is very anxious to know, because he has other matters to attend to.
The Attorney-General:
As far as I am concerned, I am ready to do anything.
The Commissioner:
Do you agree, Sir Robert, that we should not sit after this afternoon until Tuesday morning?
Sir Robert Finlay:
I agree, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
Very well, then, let it be so.
WITNESS.
Archie Jewell - Look-out, ss "Titanic"
Testimony - Biography
(Joseph Scarrott was called, but did not appear.)
The Commissioner:
Mr. Attorney, have you any information from any of these Witnesses as to how long after the forecastle head went under, the stern went up in the air?
The Attorney-General:
We have certain information, my Lord, but it is an estimate of time.
The Commissioner:
You mean it is an estimate made by untrained men?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, it is a question of minutes.
The Commissioner:
Well, minutes or seconds.
The Attorney-General:
To express it in minutes is very difficult.
The Commissioner:
A man of the kind we had in the box just now talks sometimes about minutes when he means moments.
The Attorney-General:
That is why I hesitated to answer, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
Where is Mr. Scarrott?
The Attorney-General:
He has been called, and he has not answered.
The Commissioner:
Is there nobody who looks after these Witnesses?
The Attorney-General:
Yes, and he was warned he would be called, but he does not seem to have come back.
The Commissioner:
There should be somebody whose business it is to keep these men in hand, otherwise they stray about.
WITNESS.
Joseph Scarrott - Able Bodied Seaman, SS "Titanic"
Testimony - Biography
The Commissioner:
I do not propose to go any further, but I want to ask whether you think it would be of service if I and my colleagues were to go down to Southampton to see the "Olympic"?
The Attorney-General:
I think it would.
The Commissioner:
If so we will make arrangements to be there at some time that fits in with the trains on Monday.
The Attorney-General:
If your Lordship pleases.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Everything will be ready on Monday.
The Commissioner:
Very well, then, we will arrange amongst ourselves, and let you know by what train we propose to go. We had, perhaps, better do it now. We can get a railway guide.
The Attorney-General:
As a result of today's experience, particularly having regard to inquiries which have been made, we think it would be quite well to stop where we are. There is a considerable improvement today both by the sounding-board and bringing us closer.
The Commissioner:
I am very glad to hear that because I understand the arrangements have all been made, and it would be very difficult to undo them.
The Attorney-General:
Yes, I think it is very much better to stay.
The Commissioner:
Well, I hear you very well. I do not know whether you hear me, but I hear you.
Sir Robert Finlay:
Yes, it is really very much better.
The Attorney-General:
We have a number of Witnesses here, and I think it is an obvious disadvantage to have a lot of these men here when they may not be wanted on a particular day. What it is proposed to do, therefore, is to have as many Witnesses here on Tuesday as can usefully be examined during that day, and leave the rest out.
The Commissioner:
That is a matter that I must leave entirely to you. I am told there is a train at 10.15 on Monday morning for Southampton, whether it is true or not I do not know, but I have it on fairly reliable authority. If it is I propose we should go down by that train.
Mr. Laing:
There is a train about 10, my Lord.
The Commissioner:
Very well then, we will leave it in that way. We will be at Waterloo to take that train about 10, and we shall expect somebody at Southampton to look after us and to insure that we see what we want to see.
(Adjourned to Tuesday next, at 10.30 o'clock.)
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